So, a lotta you hate Windows 8...

[techguy77]

Define "efficient". It takes less time to move our arms or touch an element than it does to mouse through everything, even less time to use the keyboard where your hands are anyways. Also, when our monitors DPI gets to a point where it's impossible to discern all those small UI elements, then what are you gonna do? Those old 9x elements are never going to scale up. Eventually, they'll be replaced by bigger ones that are easier to see and read.

No it does not. Nothing beats mouse as far as reaching objects on the screen. I am talking about full size desktop PC with Monitor in front of it. As I said the reason i bought 27" is to avoid situation Metro provides. Again there is no in hell i would touch my 27" i try to keep dirt free. Bottom line touch screens is stupid idea unless we are talking about virtual reality with no monitors involved or small devices such as Phone or small Tablets.

[theyarecomingforyou]

To me, the dumbest implementation of this is the dragging down of a Metro app to close it. How is that even discoverable for a desktop user? The same goes with 'invisible' control features that don't appear until you hover somewhere.

Windows 8 will come with a tutorial, so the new functionality won't be an issue. Not only that but people adapted to Aero Snap, which involves dragging windows to different edges of the screen. You quickly adapt.

And I'm sorry, but a full screen start menu is full screen for one reason: it has to be for tablet and phone users because the screen is so much smaller. You have a 22" monitor and now a giant start screen is just wonky²

But what you fail to accept is that Metro Start works BETTER with large displays precisely because it takes advantage of the entire screen. As monitors have increased in size the Start Menu of Vista and Win7 has become smaller relative to the size of the screen, requiring endless scrolling and constant clicking to expand folders. It wasn't efficient. It's easy to forget but a lot of people complained about the Start Menu introduced in Vista precisely because it was limited to a tiny fraction of the screen. I have a 30" 2560x1600 display and the new Start screen is a clear improvement - when I access All Apps I can see everything installed on my computer and all with a much large area to click on, which is impossible with the old Start Menu.

There is no doubt that Windows 8 was designed to take advantage of touch screens. But it is disingenuous to claim that this was done to the detriment of large displays. Having used Windows 8 for months I can confidently say that it works better than ever with high resolution displays and multi-monitor setups.

[KevinN206]

Windows 8 will come with a tutorial, so the new functionality won't be an issue. Not only that but people adapted to Aero Snap, which involves dragging windows to different edges of the screen. You quickly adapt.

But what you fail to accept is that Metro Start works BETTER with large displays precisely because it takes advantage of the entire screen. As monitors have increased in size the Start Menu of Vista and Win7 has become smaller relative to the size of the screen, requiring endless scrolling and constant clicking to expand folders. It wasn't efficient. It's easy to forget but a lot of people complained about the Start Menu introduced in Vista precisely because it was limited to a tiny fraction of the screen. I have a 30" 2560x1600 display and the new Start screen is a clear improvement - when I access All Apps I can see everything installed on my computer and all with a much large area to click on, which is impossible with the old Start Menu.

There is no doubt that Windows 8 was designed to take advantage of touch screens. But it is disingenuous to claim that this was done to the detriment of large displays. Having used Windows 8 for months I can confidently say that it works better than ever with high resolution displays and multi-monitor setups.

I have been trying to say the same thing about the start screen. For those with ultra high resolution, finding apps with the start screen and within the "all apps" menu will be better. Do you mind taking a pic of your start screen and the "all apps" as full resolution? (don't resize it)

[Dot Matrix]

We could sit here till the end of the Earth debating this stuff but the simple fact is that's it's here. Windows 8 is coming, and those who are going to upgrade, will upgrade, and those who don't will cling onto Windows 7, but the simple truth is that Windows 9x is gone. Those clinging onto Windows 7 will have to face that fact at a later time. We have a few months to go until the RP is released, and until then, I plan on running the CP on my systems and really put Windows 8 through the ringer. After all it only benefits me as a support technician, when people start coming to me with questions or problems, I will be able to answer them. It seems by many of the responses here, that I am ahead of the curve.

[BeerFan]

If you are a support technician, you will understand that whether it is here or not, there is no real benefit to using Windows 8 on a desktop. Sure, you can use the mouse and keyboard to navigate in Win8, but it's a PITA.

I've been a huge fan of every Windows release up until now. This OS just blows for the desktop user.

[zhangm Supervisor]

So, all this time you've been defending Win8 by replying to every single post, you've not had it installed as a primary OS? lmao. I've had it as my primary on three desktop systems. This is the first MS Windows release that I dislike.

We have a few months to go until the RP is released, and until then, I plan on running the CP on my systems and really put Windows 8 through the ringer.

[Dot Matrix]

If you are a support technician, you will understand that whether it is here or not, there is no real benefit to using Windows 8 on a desktop. Sure, you can use the mouse and keyboard to navigate in Win8, but it's a PITA.

I've been a huge fan of every Windows release up until now. This OS just blows for the desktop user.

I have found it to have huge benefits on the desktop.

[.Neo]

What I see is OS X features just wrapped in a Aero-ish package: Dock, Stacks, Quick Look, Fast User Switching including the cube transition etc.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I have been trying to say the same thing about the start screen. For those with ultra high resolution, finding apps with the start screen and within the "all apps" menu will be better. Do you mind taking a pic of your start screen and the "all apps" as full resolution? (don't resize it)

Screenshot: All Apps

As you can see everything fits on the screen, each application group is clearly labelled, all the icons are visible and each has a larger area to click on (very useful when using large monitors). It takes some getting used to but it's a lot more efficient when you adapt to it. However I would like to see a lot more customisation options added before release, as currently it's pretty limited (though still a lot more than offered in Vista/Win7).

[PGHammer]

Actually sometime there is a need to have many apps open. I work at a school and when doing state reporting and exporting/importing students into eDirectory or any other program, I'll using several different things all at the same time. That would be a mess with Metro.

No - it would not.

What folks are forgetting is that Metro is a *design language* - not a UI.

You are thinking of WinRT - not Metro.

There can be applications designed using Metro elements that are very much NOT written using WinRT or even parts of WinRT in their code - MetroTwit is, in fact, a rather obvious example. (MetroTwit is "windowed" by default - it has no "fullscreen" option - unlike a WinRT app. Yet it complies with Metro's design specifications, despite that.) Also, there are WinRT applications that fail, and fail utterly, to comply with the Metro design language specifications.

Confusing Metro and WinRT - while understandable - remains Just Plain Wrong.

[psreloaded]

You don't have much of a futuristic outlook do you? Ask yourself, did you *honestly* think that desktop computer operating systems are going to stay the same for the rest of time and not evolve beyond what they are now? Do you honestly expect to continue using the freakin start menu for the rest of your life? Are you seriously that near sighted?

The one reason I'm into technology is because of the futuristic outlook. I'm the first one in line to tryout new operating systems and concepts and am able to realize the possibility of what they can become. Take a look at the video in my signature, and take a look at where computing will be in a few years. Notice there's no Start Menu?

Not every change someone does is futuristic and forward going... while I don't expect to use the same desktop... metro does not seem to be the way forward on desktop machines at all from any angle...

[devHead]

But what you fail to accept is that Metro Start works BETTER with large displays precisely because it takes advantage of the entire screen. As monitors have increased in size the Start Menu of Vista and Win7 has become smaller relative to the size of the screen, requiring endless scrolling and constant clicking to expand folders. It wasn't efficient. It's easy to forget but a lot of people complained about the Start Menu introduced in Vista precisely because it was limited to a tiny fraction of the screen. I have a 30" 2560x1600 display and the new Start screen is a clear improvement - when I access All Apps I can see everything installed on my computer and all with a much large area to click on, which is impossible with the old Start Menu.

There is no doubt that Windows 8 was designed to take advantage of touch screens. But it is disingenuous to claim that this was done to the detriment of large displays. Having used Windows 8 for months I can confidently say that it works better than ever with high resolution displays and multi-monitor setups.

Not everything that uses the entire screen automatically 'takes advantage' of it. To me, I don't want a Start menu being replaced with just a big screen of icons. I like the compactness. Of course, with a bigger monitor, I can make the Start menu in Windows 7 bigger; pin more things to the menu, add more system folders on the right-hand pane. But in Win8, that functionality is gone. You can't customize anything beyond the background color and grouping of your apps. No more Jumplists (hey because that's only good for a non-touch device, so they've decided to chuck it). Maybe very few people used it, but why fill a screen with a Start menu? Because that's how everyone wants it? No, because that's what has to exist on a Tablet or Phone device.

Maybe you need to see everything you have installed, but I don't. And I can't believe most people need to see everything thing. I'll take a little scrolling over being completely torn away from my desktop.

[zhangm Supervisor]

Maybe very few people used it, but why fill a screen with a Start menu? Because that's how everyone wants it? No, because that's what has to exist on a Tablet or Phone device.

Moving to a full screen format enables switching from icons to tiles - which in turn allows more information to be displayed other than simply "here's a picture of a program that you can open". Isn't that a better use of all that screen space that people purportedly have?

[korupt_one]

No Metro is better much better. MS are doing a great job with W8, this concept should be the thing everyone is hating.

[Princess Katie Pixie]

I rather have this version of Windows 8 instead of what I am seeing.

I will upgrade instantly for this instead of Windows 8 Consumer Preview

[Dot Matrix]

I rather have this version of Windows 8 instead of what I am seeing.

I will upgrade instantly for this instead of Windows 8 Consumer Preview

Except that doesn't hold true to Microsoft's "Three Screens and A Cloud" mantra, nor would that work on tablets.

[Rickkins]

It's meant as a transitional product. If there was an option to disable Metro lots of people would do so because it is unfamiliar and they wouldn't take the time to learn something new, something potentially superior. If that were the case, good luck to those people when Windows 9, 10, 11 is released and pushes the Metro envelope even further.

Wrong. People would disable it, because it is a steaming pile of turd. So now, instead of disabling it, people won't even bother with winblows 8 at all. So clearly the brilliant idea of providing no options to the end users leaves the best option of all.... waiting for windows 9, where the arrogance of win8 will be replaced by some fancy dancing, and the return of the desktop....or else it too will flop, and ms's reign will be in serious jeopardy. Hopefully by then, the a-holes who foisted this upon ms's customers will be on the unemployment line, where they belong.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Not everything that uses the entire screen automatically 'takes advantage' of it. To me, I don't want a Start menu being replaced with just a big screen of icons. I like the compactness. Of course, with a bigger monitor, I can make the Start menu in Windows 7 bigger; pin more things to the menu, add more system folders on the right-hand pane. But in Win8, that functionality is gone.

You can increase the height of the Start Menu but you can't increase the width, nor configure it so that you don't have to click to expand multiple nested folders. It also looks bad, especially when you run out of system tools to add to the right-hand section.

But in Win8, that functionality is gone. You can't customize anything beyond the background color and grouping of your apps.

It's clear you're grasping at straws, as the Start Menu doesn't allow you to configure background styles or colours at all. Metro offers more customisability.

No more Jumplists (hey because that's only good for a non-touch device, so they've decided to chuck it). Maybe very few people used it, but why fill a screen with a Start menu?

Jumplists still exist on the desktop. However, Microsoft revealed that only a tiny percentage - around 1% - used the Start Menu for jumplists. It's a niche feature that Microsoft decided to replace in order to improve the functionality for the majority. Not only that but many applications don't even support jumplists properly and produce inaccurate results - I use Cubase and it doesn't properly populate the most recent projects properly. Don't get me wrong, jumplists are occasionally useful - and will remain in Win8 on the desktop - but they're far less important than improving the core experience.

Wrong. People would disable it, because it is a steaming pile of turd. So now, instead of disabling it, people won't even bother with winblows 8 at all. So clearly the brilliant idea of providing no options to the end users leaves the best option of all.... waiting for windows 9, where the arrogance of win8 will be replaced by some fancy dancing, and the return of the desktop....or else it too will flop, and ms's reign will be in serious jeopardy. Hopefully by then, the a-holes who foisted this upon ms's customers will be on the unemployment line, where they belong.

Windows 8 will be the next Vista, and I don't mean that as a put down. What I mean is that people will moan and complain about all the changes yet the next version will come along and everyone will suddenly be happy with it. The big difference though is that Windows 8 has excellent compatibility with Windows 7 and performance is the same or better. However, I don't think it's appropriate or mature to call Metro a "steaming pile of turd" and hoping that the people responsible for it will "be on the unemployment line".

[Rickkins]

You can increase the height of the Start Menu but you can't increase the width, nor configure it so that you don't have to click to expand multiple nested folders. It also looks bad, especially when you run out of system tools to add to the right-hand section.

It's clear you're grasping at straws, as the Start Menu doesn't allow you to configure background styles or colours at all. Metro offers more customisability.

Jumplists still exist on the desktop. However, Microsoft revealed that only a tiny percentage - around 1% - used the Start Menu for jumplists. It's a niche feature that Microsoft decided to replace in order to improve the functionality for the majority. Not only that but many applications don't even support jumplists properly and produce inaccurate results - I use Cubase and it doesn't properly populate the most recent projects properly. Don't get me wrong, jumplists are occasionally useful - and will remain in Win8 on the desktop - but they're far less important than improving the core experience.

Windows 8 will be the next Vista, and I don't mean that as a put down. What I mean is that people will moan and complain about all the changes yet the next version will come along and everyone will suddenly be happy with it. The big difference though is that Windows 8 has excellent compatibility with Windows 7 and performance is the same or better. However, I don't think it's appropriate or mature to call Metro a "steaming pile of turd" and hoping that the people responsible for it will "be on the unemployment line".

Mature...?? I'm arguing on an internet message board...mature's got nothing to do with it... :rolleyes:

Still, I stand by my conviction. Metro should never have been forced upon the desktop, and it was the height of arrogance to do so. To the plank with them...!!! :woot: :laugh:

[Neu B]

Your arguments are invalid because they are completely different.

1. Al lthose DOS - GUI haters. Could still use their DOS way of life within Windows if they wanted.

2. I don't want it the same. I just don't want it to be completely different.

Lovers of Windows 8 are a sad bunch, because the majority of them simply can't understand that other people use their computers in a different way to them. They don't care, they think that the way they use their computer is the right way, and no other way is acceptable.

It doesn't matter that there are very valid reasons as to why Windows 8 won't work for another user, that user is simply wrong, and will never be right until they decide that Windows 8 is the greatest thing since a GUI operating system was invented. News flash. It isn't.

I don't understand why Microsoft, who clearly know how divided their customers are with this, are still pushing those customers away. Microsoft has done such great work over the past 10 years to increase their name, and reputation, and then they pull this.

I think Windows 8 is going to revolutionise tablets. I think once it's released, if it's marketed correctly, by Microsoft, they will give Apple and Google one hell of a shake up, and steal a massive, massive percentage of the tablet market share.

I see the exact opposite for desktops and laptops. If the CP is what we are going to see released, with no Start Menu, and MS doing their best to make the desktop experience **** (and it is), Apple is going to be laughing.

I don't care how much MS wants to integrate their products, this Metro thing is pushing boundaries that not even Microsoft should be pushing. They are single handedly ruing the desktop experience for millions of their customers, and they don't seem to give a ****.

I also don't take their articles about the issues raised as helpful. I take them as condescending. It's really coming across, to me at least, that MS are turning a blind eye to the bad feedback, and only reading the good feedback from the Windows 8 lovers.

Time will tell if I'm correct, all I know is that I, and a lot of other people, will not buy this OS without a start menu. And by start menu, I mean a button, where it should be, and not the metro start BS they have decided to throw across my screen in the most unhelpful way possible.

/Rant.

I now look forward to yet another terrible argument as to why my thoughts on Windows 8 don't matter because Microsoft of User X said so.

Text in bold, you just described yourself.

[Nashy]

Text in bold, you just described yourself.

I fail to see how. I think it's great MS have catered for 1 group of people. I don't want Metro removed completely, I want an option, so users can go back to a start menu. So no, it doesn't describe me at all. If you feel like finding all my posts on this subject, please feel free to read them. Then read them again just so you can confirm that I'm not trying tell people how to use their computer, and that I'm telling people how I PERSONALLY use it, and why I want to option to disable metro.

[SYBINX]

OMG it would be the best selling OS on the planet...

My favorite is the popup error message, that made me laugh. :)

I wish Windows error messages were as understanding as this one.

[+Warwagon MVC]

OMG it would be the best selling OS on the planet...

My favorite is the popup error message, that made me laugh. :)

I wish Windows error messages were as understanding as this one.

That message is still confusing for the average user.

This is what it should say

"We?ve noticed that you have opened this application multiple times. Would you like us to put a shortcut on the desktop, so you can access this application quicker?"