So, a lotta you hate Windows 8...

[+virtorio MVC]

What I'm trying to say is, the mouse is slowly going away. With the introduction of mainstream touch and motion sense, people are going to be using the mouse less and less as Microsoft, Apple, and maybe even Google find a way to integrate these technologies into their operating systems. Microsoft is the first to do so on the desktop. Apple is bound to keep away for a few years as they play into the fears of Windows users like they always do, but they too will follow, I could almost guarantee for OSXI. But once Apple does it, like the lemmings they are, people will "love" it.

Right, so when people like something Apple does they're lemmings. I think we're done here.

[Dot Matrix]

Right, so when people like something Apple does they're lemmings. I think we're done here.

Apple is the industry's darling. If Metro was Apple's idea, people would be going ape **** nuts over it.

[fix-this!]

. If Metro was Apple's idea, people would be going ape **** nuts over it.

i don't think so.

[+virtorio MVC]

Apple is the industry's darling. If Metro was Apple's idea, people would be going ape **** nuts over it.

People hated Launchpad in Lion, Apple TV isn't all that popular, plenty of Mac users hate the Magic Mouse.

On the flip side, OSX has had multilaunch gestures for a while, and Lion introduced full screen apps and an excellent task switching paradigm (though Mission Control - that is somewhat analogous to some of the task switching methods in Metro, but is considerably more useful) and they didn't need to introduce a whole new platform to do it.

Sometimes people like what Apple do not because they're fanboys, but because they've actually done a good job.

[V23]

but metro is soo MUCH better right, right? :rolleyes:

Yes.

[Nashy]

Liking it or not liking it isn't what I was getting at. I was simply stating that Windows 8 is no more complicated than Windows 7 is. If you can use Windows 7, you can use Windows 8.

In your opinion. To me, it is. You know why? Because I use my mouse, not keyboard shortcuts, or searching. The most important part of my computer experience is taking my mouse, and using my start menu. With Windows 8, I personally have to re-learn a new way to achieve the same thing.

Therfore, to me, it is more complicated, it's a hassle, and to be perfectly honest, I still think Microsoft has made a massive, massive mistake in doing what they are doing.

[Nashy]

Lot's of people used that argument going from DOS to a GUI.

People have bitched and moaned about every version of Windows, "Why can't it be the same as the last version!!"

There are still communities out there full of people trying to make Windows 95 and 98 work in modern life.

Your arguments are invalid because they are completely different.

1. Al lthose DOS - GUI haters. Could still use their DOS way of life within Windows if they wanted.

2. I don't want it the same. I just don't want it to be completely different.

Lovers of Windows 8 are a sad bunch, because the majority of them simply can't understand that other people use their computers in a different way to them. They don't care, they think that the way they use their computer is the right way, and no other way is acceptable.

It doesn't matter that there are very valid reasons as to why Windows 8 won't work for another user, that user is simply wrong, and will never be right until they decide that Windows 8 is the greatest thing since a GUI operating system was invented. News flash. It isn't.

I don't understand why Microsoft, who clearly know how divided their customers are with this, are still pushing those customers away. Microsoft has done such great work over the past 10 years to increase their name, and reputation, and then they pull this.

I think Windows 8 is going to revolutionise tablets. I think once it's released, if it's marketed correctly, by Microsoft, they will give Apple and Google one hell of a shake up, and steal a massive, massive percentage of the tablet market share.

I see the exact opposite for desktops and laptops. If the CP is what we are going to see released, with no Start Menu, and MS doing their best to make the desktop experience **** (and it is), Apple is going to be laughing.

I don't care how much MS wants to integrate their products, this Metro thing is pushing boundaries that not even Microsoft should be pushing. They are single handedly ruing the desktop experience for millions of their customers, and they don't seem to give a ****.

I also don't take their articles about the issues raised as helpful. I take them as condescending. It's really coming across, to me at least, that MS are turning a blind eye to the bad feedback, and only reading the good feedback from the Windows 8 lovers.

Time will tell if I'm correct, all I know is that I, and a lot of other people, will not buy this OS without a start menu. And by start menu, I mean a button, where it should be, and not the metro start BS they have decided to throw across my screen in the most unhelpful way possible.

/Rant.

I now look forward to yet another terrible argument as to why my thoughts on Windows 8 don't matter because Microsoft of User X said so.

[McKay]

I'm happy using Windows 8, I find the Startscreen handier than the Start Menu. It's the Windows 8 haters that decide that the Start Menu is the only way to do things, and because they don't want to adapt, no one else should have to. I am fed up with being told I "don't know to use a computer" because the start screen has grown on me, and I now find it better.

It's also the people who shout "I have 18 monitors I don't want apps taking the full screen! Herpa Derpa" The answer is simple, don't use the metro apps then, keep using the classic desktop (Which is where I spend 99% of my computing time in). I treat the start screen as an organized app launcher, as I treated the start menu. The difference for me is now I can fit more apps to launch, and now even organize them into categories to launch from. And when searching for something, the start screen shows more results and can be filtered and categorized into exactly what I'm looking for.

[JaredFrost]

On further research, it appears that Windows 95 provided no way to disable the new Windows Explorer shell and use the Program Manager in the same way that shell was used in Windows 3.1. It appears the Program Manager was merely an application in Windows 95 through to Windows Me, rather than a completely different shell that could have been used instead of the newly introduced Windows Explorer shell: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Windows_95 ("Build 58s still included Program Manager as found in Windows 3.1, although this application was supplemented by the new desktop and taskbar/Start menu designs.")

Thus, my point still stands.

The Program Manager is basically a menu system used to organize a way to launch programs, it is closer to the start menu than anything

The only way your argument would work is if Start Button/Menu was included Windows 8.

You could very much hide the taskbar and have the Program Manager autostart, and just use that, you might even be able to replace explorer

in the registry with progman, I never tried it though, maybe it wouldn't work.

And the reason the MSN Hotmail rollback option was eventually removed is because after that point they had ACTUAL statistics that showed that most people perfered the newer one

They have no such data for Metro, and any such data would be unreliable because you can turn data sharing off within Windows, a web interface you cannot

but this isn't about what people perfer now is it, it's about trying to force people to develop apps for mobile devices and I'm not against them trying to do this, but the way

they've done it by ignoring a large portion of their consumers isn't going to help them any.

Microsoft has always in some way given the option to use the older design/features when rolling out something new, and because they haven't here it's going to hurt

Like it or not, A LOT of people don't like how Metro limits the functionality of their desktop, normal people are more than capable of juggling 5+ programs open at once

without getting confused, not everyone wants an obnoxious full screen menu with animated tiles, no one in their right mind would think invisible menus are intuitive for

a desktop, and certainly at no point did anyone say, "this error message gives me too much detail", and when the general public uses it, those concerns will be greatly increased

[trag3dy]

If it was possible for Microsoft to not impose those restrictions, I'd probably say they shouldn't, but the Metro experience just wouldn't work as well without those restrictions. For example. in order to be able to have more than two apps open on one screen at once, Microsoft would have to implement some way of resizing Metro apps. The Metro experience would essentially become as flawed, cumbersome, and inefficient as the Desktop experience.

Seems like the key to everything is metro. If it's such a big limitation as you just admitted, then why do we need it? It doesn't make any sense.

[firey]

HA! Where do you think the inspiration came from for all the tech devices you own today? And nothing is impossible. Nothing. These movies will continue to inspire computer designers. So, yes, it is a valid point.

Okay, and which movie shows them using a touch screen to write software? Pretty sure all hacking movies/computer movies where they code it's keyboard and mouse.

[Memphis]

Okay, and which movie shows them using a touch screen to write software? Pretty sure all hacking movies/computer movies where they code it's keyboard and mouse.

Imagine writing code on a touchscreen keyboard without a mouse and no multiple windows open :rofl: on a 7 inch tablet! I am going to miss watching you tube videos and posting on Neowin simultaneously :(.

[Nashy]

I'm happy using Windows 8, I find the Startscreen handier than the Start Menu. It's the Windows 8 haters that decide that the Start Menu is the only way to do things, and because they don't want to adapt, no one else should have to. I am fed up with being told I "don't know to use a computer" because the start screen has grown on me, and I now find it better.

It's also the people who shout "I have 18 monitors I don't want apps taking the full screen! Herpa Derpa" The answer is simple, don't use the metro apps then, keep using the classic desktop (Which is where I spend 99% of my computing time in). I treat the start screen as an organized app launcher, as I treated the start menu. The difference for me is now I can fit more apps to launch, and now even organize them into categories to launch from. And when searching for something, the start screen shows more results and can be filtered and categorized into exactly what I'm looking for.

My post in no way states that people who like Windows 8 don't know how to use their computers. I also have no problem with people who love Windows 8. If it works for them, great. It doesn't work for me. SImple.

[McKay]

My post in no way states that people who like Windows 8 don't know how to use their computers. I also have no problem with people who love Windows 8. If it works for them, great. It doesn't work for me. SImple.

I'm not aiming that at you, just an overwhelming majority that seems very vocal about their opinion regarding Windows 8 on this forum, many of them seem to feel the urge to attack anyone who likes Windows 8. Obviously the more vocally someone attacks me, the more vocally I shall defend my opinion.

[Dot Matrix]

Okay, and which movie shows them using a touch screen to write software? Pretty sure all hacking movies/computer movies where they code it's keyboard and mouse.

You're not much of a revisionist are you? You're assuming people will be using VS2010 the rest of our lives, or programs with complex controls.

[firey]

You're not much of a revisionist are you? You're assuming people will be using VS2010 the rest of our lives, or programs with complex controls.

No, no even then using C++ is purely typing, writing games, etc. You aren't much of a coder are you?

[Nashy]

No, no even then using C++ is purely typing, writing games, etc. You aren't much of a coder are you?

He's nothing but a Windows 8 fanboy. You're wrong though, Dot Matrix knows best because Windows 8 is perfect for him.

[V23]

Lovers of Windows 8 are a sad bunch, because the majority of them simply can't understand that other people use their computers in a different way to them. They don't care, they think that the way they use their computer is the right way, and no other way is acceptable.

Perhaps they're the ones that have the foresight to understand how people will use computers in the future. Microsoft employ, and listen to, a large amount of people/experts for a reason.

I don't understand why Microsoft, who clearly know how divided their customers are with this, are still pushing those customers away. Microsoft has done such great work over the past 10 years to increase their name, and reputation, and then they pull this.

Because if they fail to move with the times (i.e. with a greater emphasis placed on mobile computing) they will quickly become irrelevant in this fast-paced technological world.

I now look forward to yet another terrible argument as to why my thoughts on Windows 8 don't matter because Microsoft of User X said so.

Nice to see that you've got an open mind about this.

[Nashy]

Perhaps they're the ones that have the foresight to understand how people will use computers in the future. Microsoft employ, and listen to, a large amount of people/experts for a reason.

Because if they fail to move with the times (i.e. with a greater emphasis placed on mobile computing) they will quickly become irrelevant in this fast-paced technological world.

Nice to see that you've got an open mind about this.

There is absolutely NO reason why MS can't have one little option. Do you want our new metro **** on your computer? Yes or No.

None. None at all.

[chrisj1968]

If you want to get a start menu into Windows 8, it is possible. saw this via tech republic. they messed up on the article by the screen shots should help take care of that

http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/slideshow-a-taskbar-trick-to-revive-the-classic-start-menu-in-windows-8/6356163?seq=9&tag=thumbnail-view-selector;get-photo-roto

[Dot Matrix]

He's nothing but a Windows 8 fanboy. You're wrong though, Dot Matrix knows best because Windows 8 is perfect for him.

You don't have much of a futuristic outlook do you? Ask yourself, did you *honestly* think that desktop computer operating systems are going to stay the same for the rest of time and not evolve beyond what they are now? Do you honestly expect to continue using the freakin start menu for the rest of your life? Are you seriously that near sighted?

The one reason I'm into technology is because of the futuristic outlook. I'm the first one in line to tryout new operating systems and concepts and am able to realize the possibility of what they can become. Take a look at the video in my signature, and take a look at where computing will be in a few years. Notice there's no Start Menu?

[V23]

There is absolutely NO reason why MS can't have one little option. Do you want our new metro **** on your computer? Yes or No.

None. None at all.

It's meant as a transitional product. If there was an option to disable Metro lots of people would do so because it is unfamiliar and they wouldn't take the time to learn something new, something potentially superior. If that were the case, good luck to those people when Windows 9, 10, 11 is released and pushes the Metro envelope even further.

[Nashy]

You don't have much of a futuristic outlook do you? Ask yourself, did you *honestly* think that desktop computer operating systems are going to stay the same for the rest of time and not evolve beyond what they are now? Do you honestly expect to continue using the freakin start menu for the rest of your life? Are you seriously that near sighted?

The one reason I'm into technology is because of the futuristic outlook. I'm the first one in line to tryout new operating systems and concepts and am able to realize the possibility of what they can become. Take a look at the video in my signature, and take a look at where computing will be in a few years. Notice there's no Start Menu?

Well I'm second in line then. I'm just not that naive to think I can't complain about it, and I just accept it because someone tells me to. Just because someone says this is how it's going to be, doesn't mean I have to like or embrace it.

I don't like Metro, and it really is that simple. I don't like it on my Xbox, I don't like it on WP7, and I absolutely hate it in Windows. I will have to use it, why? Because the way it stands, MS could do whatever they want and force the world to go along with it.

[Billus]

This still beats everything else. If only....

[devHead]

In your opinion. To me, it is. You know why? Because I use my mouse, not keyboard shortcuts, or searching. The most important part of my computer experience is taking my mouse, and using my start menu. With Windows 8, I personally have to re-learn a new way to achieve the same thing.

Therfore, to me, it is more complicated, it's a hassle, and to be perfectly honest, I still think Microsoft has made a massive, massive mistake in doing what they are doing.

+1. It's the same way for me as well. And I can't believe that Microsoft thinks all these millions of owners of desktop PCs and laptops are going to be more satisfied using an interface designed first and foremost for touch devices, but that also works with mouse. To me, the dumbest implementation of this is the dragging down of a Metro app to close it. How is that even discoverable for a desktop user? The same goes with 'invisible' control features that don't appear until you hover somewhere.

And I'm sorry, but a full screen start menu is full screen for one reason: it has to be for tablet and phone users because the screen is so much smaller. You have a 22" monitor and now a giant start screen is just wonky² Not because it's more productive for non-touch devices. A person can get used to it over time, but please don't say it's better for standard mouse/keyboard users.