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What Killed the Linux Desktop (by GNOME founder Miguel de Icaza)

linux desktop dead?

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#16 thomastmc

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:54

Why bother setting up the audio?

It will likely break again and will force me to go on a hunting expedition to find out more than I ever wanted to know about the new audio system and the drivers technology we are using.

We replaced core subsystems in the operating system, with poor transitions paths. We introduced compatibility layers that were not really compatible, nor were they maintained. When faced with "this does not work", the community response was usually "you are doing it wrong".


Amen...

I and almost every geek I know has tried Linux as a desktop, but only the masochists stuck with it.

http://www.netmarket...&qpcustom=Linux


#17 ichi

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:54

ANother thing with linux is that a developer cant just list one binary file for someone to download


They can, and sometimes do. You are confusing binaries with packages.

While packages are more convenient for users since they integrate with the package manager, devs can just release a single .bin file for all distros.
Eg. Id and Epic have been doing that for every game they have released on Linux, and NVidia does that as well with their driver installer.

#18 simplezz

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:55

I didn't actually mean that as a good thing. :p Rather, as an entirely ridiculous thing to ask an end user to do! Download the entire source code, and compilers, spend hours trying to find out where the actual problem is, spend hours actually building it, hoping it works? That's not the way to win anything meaningful - certainly not the appreciation of customers and end users.


People do spend hours writing and fixing code. If that didn't happen we wouldn't have software or operating systems. It's also optional, no one's forcing anyone to fix code. If there's a bug, the best way to get it fixed is by reporting it. Bitching and moaning achieves nothing.

#19 B0mberman

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:09

Amen...

I and almost every geek I know has tried Linux as a desktop, but only the masochists stuck with it.

http://www.netmarket...&qpcustom=Linux


? Clearly you do not have a conceptual understanding for the richness of functionality and potential Linux holds. Using linux isn't painful, if you know what works and what doesn't, you should just get on fine. If you using linux to run a bunch of stuff in wine and then want to complain "ahh linux sucks, its all backwards" then fine. Just don't come here bashing something which you associate success with market share. Linux isn't a business model, its community isn't centred on pleasing customers, rather its loyal users and contributors. Had a bad experience? Suck it up, find out what went wrong and try to find a community fix or article on it. get on with life. Don't moan and cry about it calling linux users "only the masochists stuck with it."

#20 togermano

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:10

They can, and sometimes do. You are confusing binaries with packages.

While packages are more convenient for users since they integrate with the package manager, devs can just release a single .bin file for all distros.
Eg. Id and Epic have been doing that for every game they have released on Linux, and NVidia does that as well with their driver installer.


I've seen .sh installers but they dont always work very well for an example the .sh installer for crossover office failed on arch linux

#21 simplezz

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:20

I've seen .sh installers but they dont always work very well for an example the .sh installer for crossover office failed on arch linux


Why would you download an installer when there's one in the AUR?

yaourt -Ss crossover
aur/crossover 11.2.0-1 (159)
	Run Windows Programs on Linux


#22 I am Not PCyr

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:22

abandoned my linux desktop after doing a KDE upgrade in 2008'ish
it was such a long drawn out pain i was exhausted and had enough of the whole
messing around in terminals for hours on end routine. (My Distro Kubuntu)
it was gettin popular then so i tried it etc and liked it.

Windows draws me me back for faaar too many reasons one of them
is if your gonna crack or code FOR windows then you should be using windows to do it lol

Never liked Gnome.. have always avoided it

My goto Linux is usualy Backtrack (Slax ?)
usualy i install it to a spare HDD too
i can't even remember what that has for the GUI lol

#23 ichi

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:36

I've seen .sh installers but they dont always work very well for an example the .sh installer for crossover office failed on arch linux


I don't know how that crossover installer works, it should just extract the files to some location anyway (usually /opt). If it was a widespread problem maybe it was a bug in that sh, else maybe it was a corrupted download.

You can also use InstallShield on Linux instead of rolling your own custom installer, it works exactly the same as it does on Windows.

#24 togermano

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:36

Why would you download an installer when there's one in the AUR?

yaourt -Ss crossover
aur/crossover 11.2.0-1 (159)
	Run Windows Programs on Linux


Thanks love for pointing that out ill try again later I thought I tried looking at the package manager :D

#25 simplezz

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:37

abandoned my linux desktop after doing a KDE upgrade in 2008'ish


To be fair, desktop Linux has come a long way since then in terms of usability. Mint and Ubuntu for instance are just as easy to use as Windows and in some cases easier.

Windows draws me me back for faaar too many reasons one of them
is if your gonna crack or code FOR windows then you should be using windows to do it lol


I write/port Windows applications on GNU/Linux using cross compliation or cygwin if I want to run without modification. Wine is great for debugging Windows applications written in Linux ;)

Never liked Gnome.. have always avoided it


I like MATE/Gnome 2 better than 3 if i'm honest. I'm currently running XFCE 4 and it's very nice.

My goto Linux is usualy Backtrack (Slax ?)
usualy i install it to a spare HDD too
i can't even remember what that has for the GUI lol


If you want to avoid the cli, you'd be better off with Ubuntu, Mint, or other easy to use distros.

#26 vhane

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 16:56

The thing that I found really interesting is that de Icaza was essentially making a case that desktop Linux is developer hostile. I thought that was pretty damn ironic. After all, Linux is the poster boy of Open Source.

#27 f0rk_b0mb

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 17:26

nevermind

#28 n_K

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 17:39

The thing about people saying 'you are doing it wrong' has 2 sides.
For example there's a project on github, and a lot of the issues reported with it are all covered in the manual that not many people seem to read, I used to post 'RTFM' in most of the issues but now there's so many of them that basically all say the same thing I just ignore them, and everyone else does too, so why are these people incapable of reading the documentation?
I'm not saying all problems that get the 'you are doing it wrong' line are examples of this, but at least a good 50% are.

#29 +warwagon

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 17:50

I totally agree!!! I've been saying this forever!!

We have to many damn Linux Distributions! Sure at the end of the day it gives the users TONS of choices to choose from, but there is no fracking standard. Some use X package manager while others use Y package manager. Then one users Y Desktop Manger while another uses X desktop manger.

#30 f0rk_b0mb

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 17:55

I totally agree!!! I've been saying this forever!!

We have to many damn Linux Distribution. Sure at the end of the day it gives the users TONS of choices to choose from, but there is no fracking standard. Some use X package manager while others use Y package manager.


Yup. Instead of having a million half-baked things, we should have 5 or 6 good solid programs.