237 replies to this topic

[Detection]

Dot Matrix, on 13 March 2013 - 13:30, said:

I can think of very few tasks where you "need" more than two or three windows open at any given time. My work rarely requires more than two.

Paint by numbers doesn't require many windows

[Dot Matrix]

Detection, on 13 March 2013 - 13:34, said:

Paint by numbers doesn't require many windows

Nor does research, nor does coding, nor does graphic design, and nor does note taking.

[BajiRav]

Dot Matrix, on 13 March 2013 - 09:20, said:

Yes, yes, we know. You need every little control ever made on your screen at the same time, so you can geek out on double clicking all the things.

However, there is no reason that needs to be that way. Users want content, they want their work. They don't need a cluster**** of controls, menus, and other gizmos clogging up their screens. It's like having a clean house. My dinner isn't out of the fridge until I want it, not out occupying space and in my way, while I'm doing other chores. My socks aren't strewn about the top of my dresser, they're neatly tucked away in the drawer, ready for me to grab a pair when I need them. Same with menus and other gizmos, they don't need to be there until I need them.

But if my food is hidden how would I find it when I'm hungry???!!!

xWhiplash, on 13 March 2013 - 12:31, said:

Agreed. What does it matter to you guys (the people that says it is pointless....DO NOT USE IT THEN) if they provide an option to boot directly to desktop? That is much better instead of having me to click Desktop 3-6 times a day, and that is the ONLY thing I EVER use the Start Screen for. It is pointless for it to be in my face all the time.



Hmm....I thought when you use a computer, you can use it however you want to. Or am I just mistaken in that? I have some shortcuts for games on my desktop, other things are pinned to my taskbar.

Hmm lets see here....Windows 7 - Only a desktop interface, therefore I did not get an additional click required in my daily routine (sometimes 3-6 times a day jumping from OS X to Windows). Windows 8. The ONLY.....ONLY thing I use the Start Screen for is to click the damn Desktop tile.

So again, what does this matter to you if they provide an option? You have no use for it? Fine. But I do. I would rather keep chatting with a friend (just an example) while I click a desktop icon (or icon in the task bar) than have my 30" monitor completely filled up. Therefore, I do not use the Start Screen at all.

I don't mind having an option. You quoted my post and implied that I was asking everyone to put their PCs to sleep. When did I say that? If your daily routine includes clicking shortcuts on desktop, then do yourself a favor and move them in the start menu if you are on XP/Vista/7 or on to the start screen if you are using Windows 8. Keeping shortcuts on the desktop is the slowest way of launching applications even in Windows XP/Vista/7.
I understand you might have legitimate problems but "my shortcuts are on my desktop" is probably the stupidest argument I've seen so far. Your launchers should be either in the start menu/screen or taskbar.

Pro tip: You never used the computer the way you wanted. Microsoft always designed Windows UI, not you. I think you are getting carried away by the "I'm PC and Windows 7 was my idea" commercials.

[Torolol]

Dot Matrix, on 13 March 2013 - 13:30, said:

The rest can sit off the side of the screen, and wait for me to come back to them.

It's just a different way of displaying and using what we've already learned from using Windows these past 20 years.

that kind of workflow actualy even more outdated than Win 3.x workflow.

Meet the ancient XENIX (1980-1989), a Unix flavor by Microsoft.
The Xenix featuring 10 full-screen virtual consoles (also known as virtual terminals)
where a console can just run a program, so you may have up to 10 running program at a time, which way better than CP/M or DOS at that time.

But being full-screen in nature, only one of them may have you attention at a time,
which you can freely choose using Alt+F1 to Alt+F10 key combination.

Now, if you compare the nature of ancient Xenix virtual console with Metro workflow, didn't they strikingly similar?
Only one apps may have you attention at a time,
you can freely choose which app that will have your attention.

Therefore i conclude Metro workflow is a glorifed Ancient Xenix virtual consoles.

[+warwagon]

Another issue with Windows 8 is if you have an AIO PC with a touch screen the first boot tutorial will give you the tablet thumb corner swipe demonstration. NEVER informing the user how to use Windows 8 with an actual mouse.

[threetonesun]

warwagon, on 13 March 2013 - 15:31, said:

Another issue with Windows 8 is if you have an AIO PC with a touch screen the first boot tutorial will give you the tablet thumb corner swipe demonstration. NEVER informing the user how to use Windows 8 with an actual mouse.

Maybe not the best tutorial, but if you bought a PC with a touch screen, I'm sure you'd want to know how to do that. I mean, the mouse version of Windows 8 is relatively intuitive.

[+warwagon]

threetonesun, on 13 March 2013 - 15:35, said:

I mean, the mouse version of Windows 8 is relatively intuitive.

By intuitive you mean, have the user jab their mouse into every corner of the screen to reveal hidden items?
By intuitive you mean, putting the user in a full screen app with zero visible menus?
By intuitive you mean, letting the user search from the start screen by just typing, yet never informing them that they could do so?
By intuitive you mean, have an actual "All apps" screen yet have it hidden until the user "Right clicks" ? (something a user does very rarely)

By intuitive you mean, don't tell them they can right click to access all their applications and don't tell them they can just type to get to their applications. So how exactly is a user suppose to figure out how to get their applications? The only 2 methods for doing so are hidden and never explained.

By intuitive you mean, set the computers timezone to pacific standard time by default never giving the user the options to configure it during the first boot (like all previous versions of windows) and never explaining to them how to configure it after they have arrived in windows.

By intuitive you mean, covering up the actual log in box with a pretty picture and the time, never informing the user they can just click to get back to the login box.

By intuitive you mean, still give the user quick access to key functions of the system by right clicking a hidden box in the bottom left. Yet never explaining to the user their is a hidden menu in the bottom left, and that you have to right click it to get the list of key functions.

By intuitive you mean, letting users bring up the start screen by pressing the "Windows key" on the keyboard, yet never informing them they even have a windows key on their keyboard and that by pressing it will activate the start screen.

By intuitive you mean, have a CRAP ton of useful shortcuts for accessing things quicker on windows 8 yet never even inform them that these shortcuts exist. (most users don't even know they can press control + c for copy)

[Detection]

warwagon, on 13 March 2013 - 15:37, said:

by idiotic you mean, have the user jab their mouse in the corner of the screen to reveal a hidden bar?
by idiotic you mean putting the user in a full screen app with zero visible menus?
by idiotic you mean letting the user search from the start screen by just typing, yet never informing them that they could do so?
by idiotic you mean have an actual "All apps" screen yet have it hidden until the user "Right clicks" ? (something a user does very rarely)

Fixed that for you

[CSharp.]

warwagon, on 13 March 2013 - 15:37, said:

letting the user search from the start screen by just typing, yet never informing them that they could do so?

By the way, now that you mention that. It would probably make even more sense to have the upper right corner look something like this instead of what I suggested in the OP.



If Microsoft would then move the position of the search box in the All Apps view slightly, by modifying the arrangement of the text above it, then the box from the Start screen could actually stay on screen and simply become active, once you start entering text, with only the rest of the UI sliding into view.



One unfortunately gets the impression that on many occasions in Windows 8, Microsoft put aesthetics over usability.

[+warwagon]

Wunderground, a weather website recently changed their UI for their Wundermap. This is what the user see's when they access the new UI for the first time. I really think Microsoft should learn from these guys.

[threetonesun]

warwagon, on 13 March 2013 - 15:37, said:

By intuitive you mean, have the user jab their mouse into every corner of the screen to reveal hidden items?
By intuitive you mean, putting the user in a full screen app with zero visible menus?
By intuitive you mean, letting the user search from the start screen by just typing, yet never informing them that they could do so?
By intuitive you mean, have an actual "All apps" screen yet have it hidden until the user "Right clicks" ? (something a user does very rarely)

By intuitive you mean, don't tell them they can right click to access all their applications and don't tell them they can just type to get to their applications. So how exactly is a user suppose to figure out how to get their applications? The only 2 methods for doing so are hidden and never explained.

By intuitive you mean, set the computers timezone to pacific standard time by default never giving the user the options to configure it during the first boot (like all previous versions of windows) and never explaining to them how to configure it after they have arrived in windows.

By intuitive you mean, covering up the actual log in box with a pretty picture and the time, never informing the user they can just click to get back to the login box.

By intuitive you mean, still give the user quick access to key functions of the system by right clicking a hidden box in the bottom left. Yet never explaining to the user their is a hidden menu in the bottom left, and that you have to right click it to get the list of key functions.

By intuitive you mean, letting users bring up the start screen by pressing the "Windows key" on the keyboard, yet never informing them they even have a windows key on their keyboard and that by pressing it will activate the start screen.

By intuitive you mean, have a CRAP ton of useful shortcuts for accessing things quicker on windows 8 yet never even inform them that these shortcuts exist. (most users don't even know they can press control + c for copy)

I'm sorry, if the Windows key and the right mouse button aren't intuitive, take your computer off your desk and place it in the nearest trash bin.

For most of these complaints, I would say see the default UI for most smartphones / tablets on the market today. They all equally obscure menus / search functions / options.

warwagon, on 13 March 2013 - 16:14, said:

Wunderground, a weather website recently changed their UI for their Wundermap. This is what the user see's when they access the new UI for the first time. I really think Microsoft should learn from these guys.

While yes, everything is obvious and accessible in their new UI, it's usability is incredibly questionable.

[Dot Matrix]

BajiRav, on 13 March 2013 - 15:07, said:

Pro tip: You never used the computer the way you wanted. Microsoft always designed Windows UI, not you.

This phrase says it all.

warwagon, on 13 March 2013 - 15:31, said:

Another issue with Windows 8 is if you have an AIO PC with a touch screen the first boot tutorial will give you the tablet thumb corner swipe demonstration. NEVER informing the user how to use Windows 8 with an actual mouse.

So? People know how to use a friggin mouse. They know how to right click to find menus, they know how to move the mouse around to find the Charms Bar.

[CSharp.]

threetonesun, on 13 March 2013 - 16:21, said:

While yes, everything is obvious and accessible in their new UI, it's usability is incredibly questionable.

That's the thing. While such explanations are nice and helpful, it's often not a good sign when they're needed in the first place. Even the latest version of iTunes has such explanations. And comes with its own usability issues...

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[BajiRav]

warwagon, on 13 March 2013 - 15:37, said:

By intuitive you mean, have the user jab their mouse into every corner of the screen to reveal hidden items?
By intuitive you mean, putting the user in a full screen app with zero visible menus?
By intuitive you mean, letting the user search from the start screen by just typing, yet never informing them that they could do so?
By intuitive you mean, have an actual "All apps" screen yet have it hidden until the user "Right clicks" ? (something a user does very rarely)

By intuitive you mean, don't tell them they can right click to access all their applications and don't tell them they can just type to get to their applications. So how exactly is a user suppose to figure out how to get their applications? The only 2 methods for doing so are hidden and never explained.

By intuitive you mean, set the computers timezone to pacific standard time by default never giving the user the options to configure it during the first boot (like all previous versions of windows) and never explaining to them how to configure it after they have arrived in windows.

By intuitive you mean, covering up the actual log in box with a pretty picture and the time, never informing the user they can just click to get back to the login box.

By intuitive you mean, still give the user quick access to key functions of the system by right clicking a hidden box in the bottom left. Yet never explaining to the user their is a hidden menu in the bottom left, and that you have to right click it to get the list of key functions.

By intuitive you mean, letting users bring up the start screen by pressing the "Windows key" on the keyboard, yet never informing them they even have a windows key on their keyboard and that by pressing it will activate the start screen.

By intuitive you mean, have a CRAP ton of useful shortcuts for accessing things quicker on windows 8 yet never even inform them that these shortcuts exist. (most users don't even know they can press control + c for copy)

None of those are any more hidden than right-click or double click. These are learned skills, you are not born with them.

[nub]

Dot Matrix, on 13 March 2013 - 12:34, said:

That would break everything Microsoft is doing. They're converging their user experiences into one, not separating them out anymore. Even on traditional desktops, the Metro Start Screen is meant as a dashboard to your PC. Pin your go to desktop app to it, and be done. Once you click it, you're on the desktop, with your app open, ready to go. All it takes is one click. That's one less than on a traditional desktop.

Round peg into a square hole. You can't mash the desktop experience into full screen metro. Using Windows 8 as intended feels like using two separate operating systems. They do not mix well. If you're using the desktop (for actually useful things), you open the start menu and you're displaced. It breaks the flow and feels unnatural.

Dot Matrix, on 13 March 2013 - 13:30, said:

Now, unless you're some hotshot, "power user" still stuck in the past, pretending that a zillion and one things cluttered all over the screen, is "cool", and somehow makes you think you're better than everyone else

Lol. What the hell.