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Just how many people hate Windows 8?

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#466 HawkMan

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 14:14

Except, the Windows 7 > taskbar was stolen from OSX. :laugh:


wait... what ? .... ROFL!!!

And expose > taskbar previews, because it shows you your open windows at a reasonable size, and it can do it for all your applications or all your Windows, and you can use it without moving your mouse.


For multitasking superbar beats the crap out of expose. I ave no interest in seeing the content of my windows. and if I do then peak is better as it actually shows me my windows in FULL size. but for multitasking and task switching. quickly switching with the taskbar beats opening the expose windows and then finding the right app by analyzing the thumbnails and then clicking it.


#467 majortom1981

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 14:17

Install classic start menu . Then say you hate windows 8. it even has an option to disable the hot corners. It is also free.

#468 threetonesun

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 14:28

wait... what ? .... ROFL!!!

For multitasking superbar beats the crap out of expose. I ave no interest in seeing the content of my windows. and if I do then peak is better as it actually shows me my windows in FULL size. but for multitasking and task switching. quickly switching with the taskbar beats opening the expose windows and then finding the right app by analyzing the thumbnails and then clicking it.


The OSX dock is fundamentally a list of icons which had indicators for running programs, where as the old Windows taskbar was a list of icons and then a list of running programs. Except for the fact that it's not center aligned, the Windows superbar is pretty similar to the OSX dock, except it still doesn't do notifications as well.

And no, you'll never convince me that the Windows taskbar is better than expose because, as I mentioned earlier, I don't have to move my mouse to run Expose, and there are many more options for filtering what windows you see. That's besides the fact that OSX handles virtual desktops better as well. But, Windows still has a better alt+tab interface, and that's pretty much all I need in Windows, and I have it assigned to a mouse button.

Six of one, half dozen of the other, but to argue that Windows is "clearly superior" in terms of multitasking is a bit disingenuous.

#469 MorganX

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 14:41

The computing as an appliance future that Apple championed and now Microsoft is trying to copy is great for the companies, but ultimately a disaster for us consumers.<<

Ultimately, computing has become what it is today due to the relatively open nature of the ecosystem. With a conversion of everything to an appliance we'll see future innovation stifled as deep restrictions will make certain ideas impossible to even attempt.


Funny thing is that was Apple's business model from the beginning which is why MS dominated them so thoroughly on the desktop. Low volume, high margin, built-in obsolescence from a base that was willing to do that as they felt superior.

Windows was a computer on every desktop. High volume, open hardware platform, license the software.

They are both becoming IBM in their gluttonous bureaucracy ruled by shareholders. Perhaps history will repeat itself and an innovative upstart(s) will supplant them against all odds. Doubtful, but the opportunity is there.

#470 +LogicalApex

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 15:01

Funny thing is that was Apple's business model from the beginning which is why MS dominated them so thoroughly on the desktop. Low volume, high margin, built-in obsolescence from a base that was willing to do that as they felt superior.

Windows was a computer on every desktop. High volume, open hardware platform, license the software.

They are both becoming IBM in their gluttonous bureaucracy ruled by shareholders. Perhaps history will repeat itself and an innovative upstart(s) will supplant them against all odds. Doubtful, but the opportunity is there.


Agreed. The way Microsoft came to dominate computing, as you mentioned, is what most fascinates me about this new direction from them. Truly this is a sign of how hubris Microsoft has become and, as you said, IBM like.

At present it looks like Google may be the company that ends up challenging them the most, but I don't think they'll ultimately win in all areas. The one major benefit a rising Google will have, IMHO, is the acceptance of open source software as a core part of our computing paradigm. Although Google may, or may not, dominate the future there will be a healthy blossoming of alternatives via slight variations of the existing system (akin to custom roms on Android) to full on forks (akin to Ubuntu Phone). Hopefully this continued push down the road of open computing keeps its steam. It is still early enough for Microsoft to wake up, but I doubt this is realistic without a major change in leadership.

Strange how this was is being waged. You have Google using the same tactics Microsoft used to rise to power and MS forgetting its past.

Either way, I hope Microsoft fails in their current direction. A future where our computers are appliances will act like a death anchor around our feet. I can't see a good future where we aren't free to chose any software we want to do the task at hand. I shudder to think if this had already been achieved on the Desktop we'd still be sitting on IE 6...

#471 threetonesun

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 15:43

At present it looks like Google may be the company that ends up challenging them the most, but I don't think they'll ultimately win in all areas. The one major benefit a rising Google will have, IMHO, is the acceptance of open source software as a core part of our computing paradigm. Although Google may, or may not, dominate the future there will be a healthy blossoming of alternatives via slight variations of the existing system (akin to custom roms on Android) to full on forks (akin to Ubuntu Phone). Hopefully this continued push down the road of open computing keeps its steam. It is still early enough for Microsoft to wake up, but I doubt this is realistic without a major change in leadership.


Google?!?

You couldn't have picked a worse example. On Chrome OS, you're buying into their operating system, their browser, their productivity suite, their content distribution systems, and all of their services (from which they glean data which they then make money from).

In reality, any company setting up a software distribution system for their own hardware is equally closed. No one should be surprised about Microsoft going this way, they're not following Apple's footsteps, they're following their own footsteps, just the ones on that path that went down their incredibly successful (and incredibly closed) console division.

#472 xWhiplash

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 15:43

Agreed. The way Microsoft came to dominate computing, as you mentioned, is what most fascinates me about this new direction from them. Truly this is a sign of how hubris Microsoft has become and, as you said, IBM like.

At present it looks like Google may be the company that ends up challenging them the most, but I don't think they'll ultimately win in all areas. The one major benefit a rising Google will have, IMHO, is the acceptance of open source software as a core part of our computing paradigm. Although Google may, or may not, dominate the future there will be a healthy blossoming of alternatives via slight variations of the existing system (akin to custom roms on Android) to full on forks (akin to Ubuntu Phone). Hopefully this continued push down the road of open computing keeps its steam. It is still early enough for Microsoft to wake up, but I doubt this is realistic without a major change in leadership.

Strange how this was is being waged. You have Google using the same tactics Microsoft used to rise to power and MS forgetting its past.

Either way, I hope Microsoft fails in their current direction. A future where our computers are appliances will act like a death anchor around our feet. I can't see a good future where we aren't free to chose any software we want to do the task at hand. I shudder to think if this had already been achieved on the Desktop we'd still be sitting on IE 6...

I agree. Besides my couple of issues with Windows 8, my biggest complaint is the attitude of where we are headed. They treat traditional desktop users like second class citizens, when will that change and they completely get rid of the desktop? If things continue the way they are, then soon OS X will be more open than Windows.

#473 OP Dot Matrix

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:33

I don't think the market is really moving away from that as much as companies want to force the market that way. The computing as an appliance future that Apple championed and now Microsoft is trying to copy is great for the companies, but ultimately a disaster for us consumers. We're left with less choice and companies are able to forcibly chain us up in ways that don't benefit us. Do you like Google search, but want a Windows device? Too bad you'll be forced to adhere to deep Bing integration. Do you like Firefox, but want an iPad or Windows tablet? Too bad, you'll need to use Safari or IE since you can't install a custom browser on either platform (RT variant for Windows).


People don't care, they eat up Apple devices like nothing.

Windows on the desktop has always allowed a shell change, but the RT variant breaks that tradition. If a developer came up with a good cool Start Screen replacement for Windows Tablets and/or Phones he would have no possible way of pursuing that and users will never get to use it.


What? Where has Windows always allowed shell changes? Microsoft NEVER supported shell changes. Ever. Windows 8 Metro doesn't change that.

#474 threetonesun

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:17

I agree. Besides my couple of issues with Windows 8, my biggest complaint is the attitude of where we are headed. They treat traditional desktop users like second class citizens, when will that change and they completely get rid of the desktop? If things continue the way they are, then soon OS X will be more open than Windows.


Desktop is still first in Windows 8, and OS X and Windows are still equally open, you can run any browser on them, and you can download any program from the internet and run it, and you can run any development software you want on it and write your own programs.

#475 +LogicalApex

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 18:09

People don't care, they eat up Apple devices like nothing.


People do care. They just never know they care early on. This is why computing started with closed systems and then ended up with open systems.

Open Systems ultimately win out as people want devices that offer solutions to problems they have. They don't want to have to deal with 50 different devices for every little task.

Closed systems have to fight to keep up with every advancement in competing platforms. Open platforms allow third parties to add those advancements.

What? Where has Windows always allowed shell changes? Microsoft NEVER supported shell changes. Ever. Windows 8 Metro doesn't change that.


Windows has allowed shell changes since a GUI was added... I don't get what you mean by Microsoft doesn't support it. Microsoft doesn't "support" a whole host of things regarding Windows. They don't support Stardock's Start8 nor do they support Firefox or Chrome.

Microsoft does support the hooks they allow the developers to tie into, including utilizing all of the Win32 APIs and registry keys to make a custom shell.

The problem with the RT variants is they don't allow users the flexibility that Windows has always allowed. Microsoft is attempting to close the system and Windows 8 really is just the start of this process.

I'm not sure why I'm discussing this though as you either don't understand or you don't care and would rather just tow the company line.

#476 PGHammer

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 21:21

Or..

Something more current.. most of all computers now come with a laser mouse. Also, a mouse is very easy to replace.

Or..

Something more current.. most of all computers now come with a laser mouse. Also, a mouse is very easy to replace.


Laser mice are now with price-parity with older ball mice.

In fact, look at the CURRENT crop of low-end mice - most are, in fact, laser (including the low-end mice from both Microsoft and Logitech).

The only reason to choose a ball mouse nowadays is personal preference - period. (I went from wired ball to wired laser to wireless laser - without a quibble or even changing mouse drivers, except when changing operating systems. And that is going from three different brands of pointing device - Microsoft (ball), Saitek (wired laser), and Logitech (wireless laser - specifically the V220 Cordless Laser, my current mouse); I went from wired laser to wireless laser simply to get rid of the wire; I had already swapped out the wired KEYBOARD for a wireless model.

When it comes time to replace the V220, it will not only pretty much be another laser mouse that replaces it, it will likely be another wireless laser mouse, as selection of such mice (not only from Logitech, but from Microsoft) has increased.

#477 PGHammer

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 21:40

Indeed and it failed for the same reason than, right now, touchscreen in PC is failing.


Yes - it's called COST. There is still a premium for touch-screen, especially for the desktop. Look at where touch DOES exist for desktops - the AIO market (where, amazingly, Apple's iMac has avoided touch like the plague - despite it having the same screen-size as Windows 8-based AIOs) - however, AIOs are outliers in terms of PCs. You can add touch support to existing hardware; however, it's still cheaper to buy a sharper-pitch non-touch flat-panel display than one that supports touch.

As screen sizes go up, the cost of implementing touch ALSO goes up. Right now, said cost is entirely on the display end - however, it's a SUNK cost, and therefore, must justify itself in terms of use. That's far easier in terms of portable PCs (where touch is more prevalent) than desktops. However, even in the portable market, it's more prevalent in the sub-laptop screen sizes (notebooks and netbook/slate sizes - basically, 15" and less) - cost of implementation AGAIN rearing its ugly mug.

Windows 8 (on the OS end, and on the application end) has better touch support than previous versions of Windows - not even the critics of 8 dispute that. However, touch is still at a price disadvantage on the hardware/display end - about which Microsoft can do nothing, as it is beyond their control at this juncture.

#478 PGHammer

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 22:07

@PGHammer as well, How timely, http://www.neowin.ne...dling-practices

hahaha, billionaire games.


Excuse me - I have nary a SINGLE post in the thread you referred to. None at all.

I DO have a post in another thread concerning Google - however, it is about their user counts.

I posted in that thread because, while I own nary an Android device, I use their accounts and services, and run various Android/ChromeOS/ChromiumOS-based VMs - all of which require Google+ sign-ins. I have a SINGLE account that I use for all my Google usage - from Chrome to GMail to YouTube; however, how many times am I counted by Google? (The same issue would, in fact, apply to my Microsoft Account - which, in fact, replaced my Passport; I use it across ALL of the various Microsoft groups and divisions where I roost - from Windows to Office to MSDN to Xbox.) Individual Microsoft GROUPS report individual user counts - however, Microsoft does NOT report an aggregate figure precisely due to duplication - which can be quite rife. I would rather Google adopt Microsoft's approach - counting individual services, even individual ANDROID-based services - simply to avoid count inflation as an issue.

#479 OP Dot Matrix

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 22:46

People do care. They just never know they care early on. This is why computing started with closed systems and then ended up with open systems.

Open Systems ultimately win out as people want devices that offer solutions to problems they have. They don't want to have to deal with 50 different devices for every little task.

Closed systems have to fight to keep up with every advancement in competing platforms. Open platforms allow third parties to add those advancements.



Windows has allowed shell changes since a GUI was added... I don't get what you mean by Microsoft doesn't support it. Microsoft doesn't "support" a whole host of things regarding Windows. They don't support Stardock's Start8 nor do they support Firefox or Chrome.

Microsoft does support the hooks they allow the developers to tie into, including utilizing all of the Win32 APIs and registry keys to make a custom shell.

The problem with the RT variants is they don't allow users the flexibility that Windows has always allowed. Microsoft is attempting to close the system and Windows 8 really is just the start of this process.

I'm not sure why I'm discussing this though as you either don't understand or you don't care and would rather just tow the company line.


The "closed system" you cry of, has been in consumer hands since Vista. Windows 8 hasn't changed anything. It still "supports" customization, however, it is still Microsoft's OS, if they want to change something around that breaks those customizations, it's their prerogative. They don't Q&A for those. Firefox, they will. At the end of the day, they're not supported by Windows or Microsoft, and never have.

#480 MorganX

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 22:55

Excuse me - I have nary a SINGLE post in the thread you referred to. None at all.


I wasn't calling you out for a post, lol. Just pointing to the topic, even MS, now at a disadvantage, accuses Google of monopolistic practices.