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#106 Andre S.

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 17:11

Your original point was that the top-right hot corner can lead to the accidental closure of applications.

No that was not my original point...

You're deliberately ignoring your original point and my point. Fair enough, your original point was silly anyway.

Oh it's silly now. Guess I can't refute that one.

No, I'm not angry at all. I'm just pointing out that your anecdotes are meaningless and irrelevant and you might as well have saved yourself the time you wasted typing them out.

How was it meaningless and irrelevant?

In 5 posts now you haven't made a true or well-reasoned statement, this is getting nowhere.


#107 Dot Matrix

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 19:27

Christ, the last few posts are full of it. No offense to anyone, but you're all focusing on the negatives.

First of all, you do IT. The people requesting your help need help, that doesn't mean everyone does. You're never going to have someone who *doesn't* need help ask you how to do something or complain about things. People seeking help aren't an indicator of anything. If it was, then every tech product made would be considered a "failure", since I have people everyday ask me about Windows, iPads, iOS, Android, etc.

Second, The Windows Store is beneficial to every single PC user out there. And, yes, the quality apps are easy to locate, Microsoft highlights those monthly.

Third, Metro does not inhibit anything. Christ, just go watch the 9374 walk through video posted to the news section yesterday, and look and see how easily the person on it is able to navigate it with a keyboard, mouse, and no Start Button. If he can do it, than everyone posting here can certainly do it. You survived without a Start Button before, you can survive without a visible one now.

#108 McKay

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 19:56

It's so crazy to think that microsoft could've avoided all this crap just by creating a separate/new mobile OS. Instead of trying to force all their users to use a mobile os on a desktop.


They'd have to get rid of it eventually, yes you still had the option to revert back to the Programn Manager instead of the Start Menu in Windows 95, but eventually the programn manager disappeared.

#109 Marshall

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 20:02

Thread Cleaned

Please keep this discussion civil.

#110 OP Tangmeister

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 20:53

Thread Cleaned


Wow, I came to see what had been written (surprisingly not much usefulness), and I can't say it looks like it'd been cleaned up... *shudders*
Is there a way to just lock this thread, Marshall?

#111 MorganX

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 22:30

>>People seeking help aren't an indicator of anything.<<

So..... analyzing help desk calls to eliminate recurring issues is a wasteful standard operating procedure? People seeking help is "always" and indicator of something.

#112 Eric

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 22:33

But without a visual cue, users can be just a few pixels out from the hot corner box and have nothing happen.


The left-side context bar appearing isn't enough of a visual cue?

#113 Dot Matrix

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 22:50

>>People seeking help aren't an indicator of anything.<<

So..... analyzing help desk calls to eliminate recurring issues is a wasteful standard operating procedure? People seeking help is "always" and indicator of something.


If you keep focusing on the negatives - ie, the people always asking for help, then all you're going to see are the people asking for help or complaining, and then everything you deploy is going to be a "failure", because those same people will keep coming back. A certain set of people isn't indicative of the whole market.

#114 MorganX

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 23:18

If you keep focusing on the negatives - ie, the people always asking for help, then all you're going to see are the people asking for help or complaining, and then everything you deploy is going to be a "failure", because those same people will keep coming back. A certain set of people isn't indicative of the whole market.


You need to take that very broad overarching theory, and apply it to specific cases of reality. Be warned, reality is far from the ideal which is generally the basis for all theoretical conclusions. When dealing with money and profits, you have no choice but to deal with the negatives, if you do not, you won't be in business long.

#115 fusi0n

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 23:21

keep-calm-and-install-start8.png I am just going to leave this here..

#116 darkrats

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 00:09

Just curious, but does anyone here really believe that just putting a Start Button in the corner, without restoring some kind of Menu to go along with it, will satisfy those users who are hoping for the real deal? Those users are turning to 3rd party applications that mimic the Start Menu, not just the Start Button. If Microsoft is only talking about a Start Button that does nothing more than skip to the desktop, then Microsoft still does not understand where they are falling short. Without adding to the arguments for and against, I'm only saying that if Microsoft is going to bring back the Start Button (Menu), then do it right and don't make a half-hearted attempt to placate those who find Metro, or Modern or whatever, so disappointing. It won't change anything.

#117 fusi0n

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 00:26

Just curious, but does anyone here really believe that just putting a Start Button in the corner, without restoring some kind of Menu to go along with it, will satisfy those users who are hoping for the real deal? Those users are turning to 3rd party applications that mimic the Start Menu, not just the Start Button. If Microsoft is only talking about a Start Button that does nothing more than skip to the desktop, then Microsoft still does not understand where they are falling short. Without adding to the arguments for and against, I'm only saying that if Microsoft is going to bring back the Start Button (Menu), then do it right and don't make a half-hearted attempt to placate those who find Metro, or Modern or whatever, so disappointing. It won't change anything.


I agree with you that people will continue to seek third party solutions.. But the fact of the matter, is this not even beta. They could remove the start screen and replace it with the Windows 95 Start Menu. Most likely not.. but we have no idea what they are doing.

In the end, if businesses don't like the future of Windows, they will migrate from it. It is evolution, and change is always guaranteed. They won't leave overnight, but OSX and Linux are looking better to some. It will be an interesting next 5 years.

#118 MorganX

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 00:44

Just curious, but does anyone here really believe that just putting a Start Button in the corner, without restoring some kind of Menu to go along with it, will satisfy those users who are hoping for the real deal?


It will placate them. It really is easier to target. It just is, MS didn't put it there in the first place arbitrarily for all these years you know. It will also provide familiarity to many consumers who may be turning away because there is nothing familiar? It is also an olive branch of sorts. Will it replace the functionality of the Start Menu, no. But combined with improved Modern UI search, it may be just enough compromise.

If the search is streamlined, I can see myself letting Start 8 go and using the Start Button and Start Page.

#119 Growled

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:24

Just curious, but does anyone here really believe that just putting a Start Button in the corner, without restoring some kind of Menu to go along with it, will satisfy those users who are hoping for the real deal? Those users are turning to 3rd party applications that mimic the Start Menu, not just the Start Button. If Microsoft is only talking about a Start Button that does nothing more than skip to the desktop, then Microsoft still does not understand where they are falling short. Without adding to the arguments for and against, I'm only saying that if Microsoft is going to bring back the Start Button (Menu), then do it right and don't make a half-hearted attempt to placate those who find Metro, or Modern or whatever, so disappointing. It won't change anything.


I agree with you. If the Start button only leads me to Metro it is still useless to me. I prefer having a Start menu.

#120 Nashy

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:47

Bottom line is. It should have been an option.

By the time most people found how to change it back, they would have already given up caring.