Engadget posts in depth preview of Windows Phone 7

[Petvas]

This interview makes me feel that some of the features that WP7 is currently lacking might make a comeback by the time it launches.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/19/exclusive-interview-with-joe-belfiore-corporate-vp-of-windows-p/

I hope they do and pull another of those "yes we do 1080p as well" that they did near PS3's launch.

I wish I could believe that because I want Microsoft to be successful, but I just don't see them having the best concept or vision. At the moment it is very confusing and even Microsoft doesn't know how Windows Phone will evolve.

How's it going to work with web video? No HTML5 support, no YouTube app, a weird implementation of Silverlight and no Flash (for now at least). Fail Microsoft.

Only through the Zune desktop client sync...I just hope that Google develops a Youtube app for Windows Phone...

[Mr. Gibs]

I am not so sure about that. Even the average consumer wants Youtube access, but even that isn't there. How difficult was it for Microsoft to make a Youtube Client?

WP7 will support flash and silverlight, making a youtube client sort of pointless. Or they could just be letting the OEMs do something like that based on the type of phone they're selling.

And no, I don't think the average consumer wants youtube access on their phone - just how many times have you seen someone use it?

How's it going to work with web video? No HTML5 support, no YouTube app, a weird implementation of Silverlight and no Flash (for now at least). Fail Microsoft.

HTML5 support will probably make its way in when the IE9 engine is completed. Silverlight works just the way its supposed to. Flash will be made by adobe for this platform. I don't see any fail in that.

[thealexweb]

WP7 will support flash and silverlight, making a youtube client sort of pointless. Or they could just be letting the OEMs do something like that based on the type of phone they're selling.

And no, I don't think the average consumer wants youtube access on their phone - just how many times have you seen someone use it?

It isn't full Silverlight support and it won't be able to play most Silverlight embed content.

[Bengal34]

How's it going to work with web video? No HTML5 support, no YouTube app, a weird implementation of Silverlight and no Flash (for now at least). Fail Microsoft.

The marketplace is not open for business yet! Do you really think there won't be one before it launches? We don't know what video codecs the browser supports. If it does support the h.264 codec then the HTML5 version of youtube will work in the browser. Flash is coming, Microsoft isn't blocking it so it'll roll out on the phones as soon as Adobe is done with it. Heck, Android just got flash so waiting a couple months on WP7 won't be bad.

[hdood]

Again, this isn't 100% done, and there's still a good month left of work to do at best before they sign off on it for RTM. Any little things will come in updates, for free, so I don't see the real problem. It's like getting a early Android 1.5 phone, how much things did that lack, and how poor was it compared to 2.0+?

Microsoft will be competing in the 2011/2012 market though, not Android from years ago. Tech geeks might accept quirks and that parts are unpolished or not quite there yet because they understand and can relate to the amount of work it is, but the general public may not be so kind. The Microsoft brand itself is not worth much.

You have to draw a line somewhere, release a product so you can make some sales and get money, then fill in the gaps with updates and the next big version. This is a business, and no piece of software starting from scratch comes out with "everything" from the get go. And yes, this is a new OS starting from scratch (only the core kernel which is CE isn't that new), it's probably close to 2 years into development.

It's not a new OS starting from scratch, they're just bringing together existing work. Take Windows CE 6, update it, bundle the .NET Compact Framework with Silverlight and XNA (ported code, not new), add in updated phone components from Windows Mobile 6, slap the phone GUI on top, and you've got Windows Phone 7.

It's completely unreasonable to pretend it was made from scratch in just "close to 2 years." It's like pretending Windows 7 was made from scratch in just a few years, with only the "core kernel" from Vista.

The marketplace is not open for business yet! Do you really think there won't be one before it launches? We don't know what video codecs the browser supports. If it does support the h.264 codec then the HTML5 version of youtube will work in the browser. Flash is coming, Microsoft isn't blocking it so it'll roll out on the phones as soon as Adobe is done with it. Heck, Android just got flash so waiting a couple months on WP7 won't be bad.

It won't work, because the browser does not support HTML5. It doesn't matter if it has a H.264 codec if the browser has no support for interpreting HTML5. As for YouTube, obviously there will be an app. To believe anything else is dumb. There's no reason to make it sound worse than it will be.

[Mr. Gibs]

It isn't full Silverlight support and it won't be able to play most Silverlight embed content.

Source?

Microsoft will be competing in the 2011/2012 market though, not Android from years ago. Tech geeks might accept quirks and that parts are unpolished or not quite there yet because they understand and can relate to the amount of work it is, but the general public may not be so kind. The Microsoft brand itself is not worth much.

And the general consumer doesn't really know what exactly runs on their phones either. All they care about is does the phone look good and does it do what they want it to do. The latter Microsoft seem to have a good hold on so far, and most of the unfinished features are stuff that techies / power users really want. I mean its not like the average joe goes "****! This platform doesn't support native code, screw it"

[hdood]

Source?

As far as I can tell, the browser has no Silverlight plugin. The Silverlight framework used for applications is different. Code from one can't run on the other without porting (and then only if it can get away without features that may be missing on one of the platforms.. browser plugin, Silverlight for WP7, Xbox, three different and incompatible platforms.)

[Ayepecks]

I am not so sure about that. Even the average consumer wants Youtube access, but even that isn't there. How difficult was it for Microsoft to make a Youtube Client?

Microsoft knows this, I assure you. A Zune HD developer posts regularly on a Zune forum, and he's aware of the desire for a Youtube client, so I think we may see that down the road or maybe even very soon. Microsoft probably just doesn't want to step on any toes.

The point about the version of IE used with WP7 (at this point anyways) is that having it based on desktop IE7 and some of IE8 means it works with almost every site out there, because devs have already coded for trident and it just works. People need to get off of this webkit high, really, when IE9 is done and out then the mobile team can make a version for WP using that engine but since it's not done they can't go with it, it just makes sense.

Again, this isn't 100% done, and there's still a good month left of work to do at best before they sign off on it for RTM. Any little things will come in updates, for free, so I don't see the real problem. It's like getting a early Android 1.5 phone, how much things did that lack, and how poor was it compared to 2.0+?

You have to draw a line somewhere, release a product so you can make some sales and get money, then fill in the gaps with updates and the next big version. This is a business, and no piece of software starting from scratch comes out with "everything" from the get go. And yes, this is a new OS starting from scratch (only the core kernel which is CE isn't that new), it's probably close to 2 years into development.

Unfortunately, I don't see them really upgrading the browser for quite a while. I really hope I'm wrong and they get IE9 advancements (and HTML5 stuff) in there.

[thealexweb]

The marketplace is not open for business yet! Do you really think there won't be one before it launches? We don't know what video codecs the browser supports. If it does support the h.264 codec then the HTML5 version of youtube will work in the browser. Flash is coming, Microsoft isn't blocking it so it'll roll out on the phones as soon as Adobe is done with it. Heck, Android just got flash so waiting a couple months on WP7 won't be bad.

No I'm commnenting on the lack of a built-in YouTube app which other platforms have built-in and ready to go out of the box.

Source?

And the general consumer doesn't really know what exactly runs on their phones either. All they care about is does the phone look good and does it do what they want it to do. The latter Microsoft seem to have a good hold on so far, and most of the unfinished features are stuff that techies / power users really want. I mean its not like the average joe goes "****! This platform doesn't support native code, screw it"

Sorry my mistake there is no Silverlight plugin for the web browser at all.

[Petvas]

Microsoft knows this, I assure you. A Zune HD developer posts regularly on a Zune forum, and he's aware of the desire for a Youtube client, so I think we may see that down the road or maybe even very soon. Microsoft probably just doesn't want to step on any toes.

Unfortunately, I don't see them really upgrading the browser for quite a while. I really hope I'm wrong and they get IE9 advancements (and HTML5 stuff) in there.

Of course Microsoft knows. They know that this is an incomplete product that is being rushed to market. They need to have a competitive product this year, so they are releasing it this fall. Of course they will update it over time, so what remains to be seen is how the public will react on the missing things. Microsoft really needs a flagship mobile device in time for release. Maybe the HD3?

[+LogicalApex MVC]

Umm you just proved that WP7 WILL be a success with the average customer...

"the average world loves ease of use and "wow" (beautiful eye catching design and transitions)"

That describes WP7 perfectly. So by your logic, WP7 will be a huge success. WP7 has the most polished transitions out of any other OS, and the design is definitely eye catching compared to the other operating systems. And it focuses on ease of use, not power users.

I don't think it does. Windows Phone 7 looks unique as it looks like the Zune HD, but it has no wow factor. It just looks like some boring bunch of boxes and random cased text not filling the screen (making it look incomplete).

It might work over time I can't say, but it won't send people jumping for joy when they use it I can assure you.

No, it's not as good as the desktop versions of those browsers. But the mobile versions of those browsers aren't as good as their desktop counterparts. So I'd say that with the exception of HTML5, Internet Explorer is just as good as Webkit.

As far as the Exchange support goes, it's still better than the other mobile offerings out there, you don't seem to be refuting that point. And I'd be surprised if the things you mentioned weren't resolved in time, or possibly before release.

Also: you never really addressed what your issue was with Zune versus iPod.

You missed his point. I'm a Windows Mobile 6.5 user who is paired with Exchange 2010 and make EXTENSIVE use of my Exchange featureset. I haven't jumped ship because no other platform has a better Exchange support than Windows Mobile 6.5 currently has (which makes sense as MS makes both!)...

Windows Phone 7 is the first version of Windows Mobile in a LONG time (probably ever) where Exchange support is shipping as an after-thought. This is a MAJOR problem as Microsoft is missing the chance to capitalize on their core strengths. They have shoved a lot of weight behind Facebook in this release and I don't think it will cut it. I can't remember which review it was I read, but Microsoft is making this feel more like a feature phone than a smartphone.

I am VERY leery that they will be able to pull anything major off with updates. I'll believe that when I see it.

[Bengal34]

No I'm commnenting on the lack of a built-in YouTube app which other platforms have built-in and ready to go out of the box.

We don't know if there will be a first party developed one or not yet. Just because it isn't listed in the marketplace right now doesn't matter because the marketplace isn't at the point where they are accepting applications. The sole purpose for the apps listed right now is for developers to see how it'll operate. It just flat out isn't populated yet.

[Mr. Gibs]

Of course Microsoft knows. They know that this is an incomplete product that is being rushed to market. They need to have a competitive product this year, so they are releasing it this fall. Of course they will update it over time, so what remains to be seen is how the public will react on the missing things. Microsoft really needs a flagship mobile device in time for release. Maybe the HD3?

Heh I really hope the HD3 comes out, amoled 4.3" screen should look absolutely gorgeous. Though I wonder how htc will design the buttons, maybe make them capacitive? Since all that space for just 3 hardware buttons would look quite odd

You missed his point. I'm a Windows Mobile 6.5 user who is paired with Exchange 2010 and make EXTENSIVE use of my Exchange featureset. I haven't jumped ship because no other platform has a better Exchange support than Windows Mobile 6.5 currently has (which makes sense as MS makes both!)...

Yeh that was quite disappointing.

They have shoved a lot of weight behind Facebook in this release and I don't think it will cut it.

I don't mind that they put a lot of weight behind Facebook. What bothers me is just how poorly they've implemented it. I don't want my facebook and live contacts populating my "peoples" tab. When I open my contact list I just want to see the names of people I've added on my phone. More than half my friends go to uni / live abroad, I don't need their names there since I'll most likely not be calling them regularly.

Not to mention the upload photo to facebook or skydrive option. That was just stupid

[Bengal34]

Of course Microsoft knows. They know that this is an incomplete product that is being rushed to market. They need to have a competitive product this year, so they are releasing it this fall. Of course they will update it over time, so what remains to be seen is how the public will react on the missing things. Microsoft really needs a flagship mobile device in time for release. Maybe the HD3?

In all honesty, I think the dell ones could be the flagship devices. We haven't seen what HTC is going to bring to the table but we know that they are bring something and are keeping it under wraps real well.

[Ayepecks]

Of course Microsoft knows. They know that this is an incomplete product that is being rushed to market. They need to have a competitive product this year, so they are releasing it this fall. Of course they will update it over time, so what remains to be seen is how the public will react on the missing things. Microsoft really needs a flagship mobile device in time for release. Maybe the HD3?

:rolleyes:

Whenever you want to have a serious conversation, let me know.

[Petvas]

I don't think it does. Windows Phone 7 looks unique as it looks like the Zune HD, but it has no wow factor. It just looks like some boring bunch of boxes and random cased text not filling the screen (making it look incomplete).

It might work over time I can't say, but it won't send people jumping for joy when they use it I can assure you.

You missed his point. I'm a Windows Mobile 6.5 user who is paired with Exchange 2010 and make EXTENSIVE use of my Exchange featureset. I haven't jumped ship because no other platform has a better Exchange support than Windows Mobile 6.5 currently has (which makes sense as MS makes both!)...

Windows Phone 7 is the first version of Windows Mobile in a LONG time (probably ever) where Exchange support is shipping as an after-thought. This is a MAJOR problem as Microsoft is missing the chance to capitalize on their core strengths. They have shoved a lot of weight behind Facebook in this release and I don't think it will cut it. I can't remember which review it was I read, but Microsoft is making this feel more like a feature phone than a smartphone.

I am VERY leery that they will be able to pull anything major off with updates. I'll believe that when I see it.

Thanks, I couldn't have said it better myself. It is disappointing to see that there are always people that just express their opinion without having any knowledge of the subject. I am sure that Exchange support isn't a big issue for many consumers, but we have to remember whe Microsoft comes from, and this is the Enterprise field. I don't know how I can suggest my customers a Windows Phone 7 device and I cant really keep saying that they should get Windows Mobile 6.5...Customers look more and more in other solutions like Blackberry, and there are also many which consider getting iPhones, even with its basic Exchange support.

I believe that Microsoft is making a big mistake here and I hope I am really mistaken and not MS.

:rolleyes:

Whenever you want to have a serious conversation, let me know.

I don't know how old you are, but I bet you must not be over 18...

[rajputwarrior]

really? no copy + past and miltitasking?

yeah apple was slow to get those features but they have them now. how do you expect to compete nowadays if you don't have those basic features?

[Ayepecks]

I don't know how old you are, but I bet you must not be over 18...

Sorry, didn't know posting entirely in sarcasm was the appropriate form of rebuttal and that it is now considered serious conversation. I ask you questions, you simply ignore them. You ask me questions or make statements, I respond. When you feel like answering questions and responding to statements instead of just being sarcastic without discussing the actual issue, let me know. You say it's an incomplete product and it's being rushed, but besides a few points which I agreed with, you don't respond to questions of how or why. You still haven't stated how Zune is inferior to iPod as well.

And, now, you continue to insult with statements questioning my age because you can't contribute anything without being sarcastic. Either discuss the topic, or don't. Quit being sarcastic and address the issues, or I have no use talking to you. I'm not sure how that implies I am juvenile, but I'd say all it does is imply the opposite.

[Bengal34]

really? no copy + past and miltitasking?

yeah apple was slow to get those features but they have them now. how do you expect to compete nowadays if you don't have those basic features?

It's... coming...

[Cereal Bawks]

The design of this phone right now looks like when you are making a design concept. This is the sort of design you mockup in a couple hours to show your boss how things would be arranged, not the actual end product. I could literally do the entire UI of this phone including every application it ships with in a weekend and that isn't a good thing.

Unlike you, I'm actually targeting this platform and probably have a clue about coding for it. I'd really like to see you "literally do the entire UI" with all animations. Good luck with that.

really? no copy + past and miltitasking?

Apart from a bunch of nerds, no normal person really missed them. And all acquaintances of mine having iPhones still don't need or use multitasking, nor are they really aware of copypaste. And we're at iOS4 already.

[tsupersonic]

Endgadget on the hand is owned by AOL so it will be neutral.

They're very biased in favor of Apple.

WP7 looks interesting. I love the UI on the Zune HD, but I don't know how well it would work on a phone. I do want to try a WP7 device, but currently I'm happy with my HTC Incredible.

[Alan-]

As I have a Zune Pass I will be getting WP7 and using that as my phone/Zune all in one. I really like what they have done and hope it takes off. Plus the minimum specs for what is needed seem quite good as well, at least compared to my crappy phone.

[Tech Star]

Apart from a bunch of nerds, no normal person really missed them. And all acquaintances of mine having iPhones still don't need or use multitasking, nor are they really aware of copypaste. And we're at iOS4 already.

You know, when Apple didn't have Copy and Paste in their OS until v3.0, everyone gave them crap for it and said it was the MOST basic feature missing. Now when WP7 does not have it, no one uses it?

[Petvas]

Sorry, didn't know posting entirely in sarcasm was the appropriate form of rebuttal and that it is now considered serious conversation. I ask you questions, you simply ignore them. You ask me questions or make statements, I respond. When you feel like answering questions and responding to statements instead of just being sarcastic without discussing the actual issue, let me know. You say it's an incomplete product and it's being rushed, but besides a few points which I agreed with, you don't respond to questions of how or why. You still haven't stated how Zune is inferior to iPod as well.

And, now, you continue to insult with statements questioning my age because you can't contribute anything without being sarcastic. Either discuss the topic, or don't. Quit being sarcastic and address the issues, or I have no use talking to you. I'm not sure how that implies I am juvenile, but I'd say all it does is imply the opposite.

Calm down here. You were the one who insulted me first by saying that I am not talking seriously. I guess you haven't read my posts, wherre I delivered arguments for all points I made. I didn't see your questions. If you mean why I believe that the iPod experience is better than using a Zune, then I have following points to make:

• Having used a Zune HD for quite. While I found its performance to be good but not on par with an iPod Touch
  
• The music player itself is good but the rating system sucks big time. I prefer using the star system...
  
• I found that the Zune desktop client to not handle dynamic playlists well. Sometimes it doesn't update them, or even worse, it just doesn't find any songs that should actually belong to the playlist, according to he criteria I specified.
  
• I find the Zune Marketplace to be missing on content, compared to the iTunes of course.
  
• Overall the Zune experience is the second best available and I am sure that Microsoft is trying to close the gap.
  

[Wanderermy]

Endgadget on the hand is owned by AOL so it will be neutral.

Orealy? That article wrote by Joshua Topolsky, a well know hardcore Apple fanboy in the blogspheres.

The same person who shut down the comment section of Engadget because people were making negative comments about Apple.