Denon say Blu-Ray Profile 1.1 discs may not play on 1.0 players

[Boz]

That's right. Jeff Talmadge, Denon's Director of Product Development and Systems Integration, says they're concerned about new disc/old player compatibility here:

http://www.listenup.com/content/partner_st...adge.aug.07.php

But there is a possibility ? and this is maybe not so public knowledge ? that when these discs come out that fit this new profthey may not work properly with the Profile 1.0 players[/b]."

From a fanboy this may be dismissable. From this guy itserious[/b] news.

Ouch.

[PiracyX]

If this is a true, then this is a big blow to early adaptors that brought Blu-Ray players.

Thank you Sony for releasing Blu-Ray with missing features only for them to update it so soon after.

I get the feeling by this time next year we may have Profile 1.2 discs announced. What a joke.

[Lexcyn]

I thought players could be upgraded to support the new profiles via firmware updates, or am I out to lunch on this one?

[jerzdawg]

It's things like this that make me wonder how people can support BD so blindly.... obviously all next generations are going to go through some problems but for the people that will go to the grave saying one is better than the other just baffles me..

[Roadrunna]

I would hope that a firm-ware update will fix this problem.

If not then early adopters have a very expensive box of junk under their TV.

I think early DVD players had the same problem with the Matrix DVD when it came out.

[testman]

I thought the whole point of all this is that the discs, no matter what version of specs they are built to, will work on everything (i.e. the reference spec).

[oceanmotion]

That's what you get for releasing a product that is not finalised. HD DVD on the other hand has no such issues because they sorted everything before release.

I don't know how people can support Blu-Ray with that sort of work ethic.

[HeartsOfWar]

What a load of crap...

Even if the 1.1 profile BD discs didn't work in a 1.0 BD player, I seriously doubt you'd have to buy a new player - simple firmware upgrade. Not un-heard of...

[Kristian]

That's what you get for releasing a product that is not finalised. HD DVD on the other hand has no such issues because they sorted everything before release.

I don't know how people can support Blu-Ray with that sort of work ethic.

That's not necessarily true: http://xbitlabs.com/news/storage/display/20070909234615.html

Moreover, neither Toshiba, nor DVD Forum have confirmed that triple-layer HD DVDs will playback on existing HD DVD hardware, such as players and computer drives.

We might end up with HD DVD players not supporting all movies.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Not good news, but until it's confirmed it's pure speculation.

I'm sure everyone involved will work their asses off to do everything possible to make sure everything is compatible.

[Boz]

That's not necessarily true: http://xbitlabs.com/news/storage/display/20070909234615.html

We might end up with HD DVD players not supporting all movies.

I am following up on this issue over at AVS forums with insiders and it has been confirmed that TL51gb discs are working wth 2nd Gen and 3rd Gen HD DVD players and that they are currently testing it with 1st gen and it will most likely work with all HD DVD player without problems.

Another issue with TL51 might be yield problems with replication as BD50 discs have, meaning very low rate. This has not been confirmed but is speculated.

And btw, this is completely not releveant. HD DVD is finished format and 30gb is enough for everything intended. The whole hoopla with TL51 is talking point and eventual full HD/DVD triple layer twin discs so studios can publish one disc that would have both DVD and HD DVD version without the need of flipping, like with combos.

Blu-Ray problem however is more serious. The problem is lack of HARDWARE like secondary video decoder, ethernet and a few other things like persistent storage etc etc. This is not simply fixable by firmware update.

When Denon's main tech guy says there might be problems, you better believe it. Not that we didn't know this already, but it's good too see someone speaking up.

What this means is that ALL Blu-Ray players being sold right now are ALL Blu-Ray 1.0, BD-Live incapable and they simply lack secondary video decoder and have older BD-J support. The new movies coming out that are Profile 1.1 (meaning they include dual video streams) may actually cause several problems on non-1.1 players. Time will tell, but firmware updates (like BD-J to the latest verson) can fix only so much.

[Boz]

What a load of crap...

Even if the 1.1 profile BD discs didn't work in a 1.0 BD player, I seriously doubt you'd have to buy a new player - simple firmware upgrade. Not un-heard of...

Again, it's hardware problems and un-unified Profiles and support among all players. Blu-Ray is a HUGE mess.

Here just read what the authors of Nature's Journey, an eagerly expected title, go through and why they actually had to delay the Blu-Ray version release.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Str...ase_Delayed/951

[Smigit]

I thought players could be upgraded to support the new profiles via firmware updates, or am I out to lunch on this one?

I thought I read several months ago that the ethernet cable and larger storage/cache got added to the specification after the initial units were selling which left certain players out there lacking the right connectivity options to get any firmware update.

Since then ethernet's become a part of the standard I think...but as the article is saying its an issue for the older drives.

I'm really no expert but...sure Boz knows more.

[Southern Patriot]

I thought I read several months ago that the ethernet cable and larger storage/cache got added to the specification after the initial units were selling which left certain players out there lacking the right connectivity options to get any firmware update.

Since then ethernet's become a part of the standard I think...but as the article is saying its an issue for the older drives.

I'm really no expert but...sure Boz knows more.

Why wouldn't a BD player be able to get a firmware update the same way some (most?) current DVD players do, by booting up with a firmware update CD in the drive?

[Smigit]

I duno, like I said, thats just what I read on the Front Page a few months back

[jerzdawg]

Why wouldn't a BD player be able to get a firmware update the same way some (most?) current DVD players do, by booting up with a firmware update CD in the drive?

see answer in bold

What this means is that ALL Blu-Ray players being sold right now are ALL Blu-Ray 1.0, BD-Live incapable and they simply lack secondary video decoder and have older BD-J support. The new movies coming out that are Profile 1.1 (meaning they include dual video streams) may actually cause several problems on non-1.1 players. Time will tell, but firmware updates (like BD-J to the latest verson) can fix only so much.

[TDQuiksilver]

People must like paying for this big "mess."

:laugh:

And yet, I still keep looking at the word may in the title. So they may also play just fine as well? ;)

[giantpotato]

In other news Denon stated "We decided to go Blu-ray because we found a partner that we can work with at this point in time quicker than we could to do HD DVD. "

This may mean some companies can work faster with Blu-Ray than HD DVD.

In my opinion, I'm getting tired of a certain someone's HD DVD propaganda. Somebody is blowing a small statement completely out of proportion.

The worst thing that could happen with profile 1.1 discs is older players will not support the 1.1 features. It does not mean the discs will not play at all. This simply means no web-content and no video overlays while watching a movie.

Why not make a big deal about how there's a much bigger possibility that HD DVD's new 51GB 3-layer disc will most likely not work at all in existing HD DVD players.

[spenser.d]

Why not make a big deal about how there's a much bigger possibility that HD DVD's new 51GB 3-layer disc will most likely not work at all in existing HD DVD players.

Because movie's don't have to be pressed onto 51GB discs, so it won't matter whether or not they can or can't.

-Spenser

[gigapixels Veteran]

In other news Denon stated "We decided to go Blu-ray because we found a partner that we can work with at this point in time quicker than we could to do HD DVD. "

This may mean some companies can work faster with Blu-Ray than HD DVD.

In my opinion, I'm getting tired of a certain someone's HD DVD propaganda. Somebody is blowing a small statement completely out of proportion.

The worst thing that could happen with profile 1.1 discs is older players will not support the 1.1 features. It does not mean the discs will not play at all. This simply means no web-content and no video overlays while watching a movie.

Why not make a big deal about how there's a much bigger possibility that HD DVD's new 51GB 3-layer disc will most likely not work at all in existing HD DVD players.

Firstly, you have no clue what the worst that could happen is. Are you one of the people working on Blu-ray? I thought not.

Secondly, I've read statements from people in the HD-DVD group that there's a very small chance that the triple-layer discs won't work in existing players.

[giantpotato]

Firstly, you have no clue what the worst that could happen is. Are you one of the people working on Blu-ray? I thought not.

Secondly, I've read statements from people in the HD-DVD group that there's a very small chance that the triple-layer discs won't work in existing players.

Fine then, IMO the worst that could happen...

Any I don't argue that there's a small chance triple layer HD DVD's won't work in existing players...if one of the layers is a regular DVD layer. For 51GB HD DVD's it's completely different story.

Because movie's don't have to be pressed onto 51GB discs, so it won't matter whether or not they can or can't.

-Spenser

And Blu-Ray discs don't have to contain profile 1.1 features either.

[Morpheus Phreak]

That's not necessarily true: http://xbitlabs.com/news/storage/display/20070909234615.html

We might end up with HD DVD players not supporting all movies.

Actually they did confirm it at CeBit. Triple-Layer will play fine in all HD-DVD players. Toshiba stated that the worst case issue is that the laser may have more read errors when going to the 3rd layer, but that the buffer would more than make up for those issues.

Also since part of the HD-DVD spec requires players to have an ethernet port you can count on a firmware update to change the calibration on the laser if need be.

However the BD spec says nothing as regards ethernet, so gen 1.0 people could get seriously screwed on this.

[Veedems Veteran]

I don't see this being as big of a deal as you guys are making it out to be. Worst possible scenario? Someone can't play a few extra features. Sony does some stupid things, but even they would know it's be format suicide to break compatibility completely.

[spenser.d]

And Blu-Ray discs don't have to contain profile 1.1 features either.

Profile 1.1 sounds like a standard disc type, where all discs pressed from a certain point would be 1.1. I could be wrong, I really have no idea, but that's just what it sounds like to me.

Don't get me wrong though, even though I lean towards HDDVD, I'd just as much rather see Blu-ray win than have 2 formats flying around.

-Spenser

[giantpotato]

Yes, I know Wikipedia is not exactly the most reliable source, but there you have it.

When software authored with interactive features dependent on Profile 1.1 hardware capabilities are played on profile 1.0 players some features may not be available or may offer limited capability. Profile 1.0 players will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.

1.0 players will still be able to play 1.1 movies.

Boz has made a mountain out of a molehill.