Are WPF and Silverlight Dead?

[MFH]

Microsoft Expression Studio - Some of the them (Design, Web) only have WPF UI's, with underlying C++ code

Now that doesn't make sense! .NET is about interoperability. It doesn't matter which language you're using - it's the same CIL anyway? So your remark "only have WPF UI's" is pretty pointless?

[George P Global Moderator]

Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know MetroUI isn't actual code, but a UI guideline. It's a set of rules for developing your application's interface.

Correct, it's just a guidline etc. The new UI people are talking about has an official name, it's the "start screen". I don't believe the start screen can only show html5+js+css for it's "apps", unless there's some artificial limits set in place by MS but I don't think so, note how every app, even olders ones that are install get a live tile on the screen automatically, though they're single squares and not the double wide ones so that probably lets you know which is which.

[~Johnny]

Now that doesn't make sense! .NET is about interoperability. It doesn't matter which language you're using - it's the same CIL anyway? So your remark "only have WPF UI's" is pretty pointless?

http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Psychlist1972/Henry-Sowizral-on-Refacing-C-with-WPF-in-Expression-Design

They literally only use WPF for the front end UI in Expression Design, everything else was existing, entirely non .NET C/C++ code. And same with Expression Web, which is basically Office FrontPage with an ugly WPF interface slapped on it :p

[jandler]

We are developers, we will adapt.

[MFH]

They literally only use WPF for the front end UI in Expression Design, everything else was exisiting, non.NET C/C++ code. And same with Expression Web, which is basically Office FrontPage with an Ugly WPF interface slapped on it :p

Ok, either i misphrased it, or you didn't understand me correctly. I'll try it again :)

Matter of fact: It's completely irrelevant in what language the Code is written, 'cause .NET uses CIL. So having the core written in C++ and the UI in .NET + WPF does i no way diminish the fact that VS2010 is built with WPF?

[neufuse Veteran]

Now that doesn't make sense! .NET is about interoperability. It doesn't matter which language you're using - it's the same CIL anyway? So your remark "only have WPF UI's" is pretty pointless?

yet thats what MS has been doing with a lot of their WPF stuff... they use WPF for the UI it seems like... thats all they really touted when VS went WPF... that the Code editor would look so much better in WPF... looks about the same to me with some minor changes

[Jen Smith]

yet thats what MS has been doing with a lot of their WPF stuff... they use WPF for the UI it seems like... thats all they really touted when VS went WPF... that the Code editor would look so much better in WPF... looks about the same to me with some minor changes

Seems to be a lot smoother if anything to be versus 2008, especially once addons are throwing a lot of extra stuff into the mix. (Hard to see the difference if you just look at screenshots.. in that case yea looks about the same.) CodeRush for example adds a ton of extra visual elements that used to bog the old 2008 interface down something ugly, in 2010 it's smooth as glass. 2008 would flicker like mad too when scrolling/redrawing/etc, but that might be due to me being on XP back then.. not sure who was at fault there.

[~Johnny]

Ok, either i misphrased it, or you didn't understand me correctly. I'll try it again :)

Matter of fact: It's completely irrelevant in what language the Code is written, 'cause .NET uses CIL. So having the core written in C++ and the UI in .NET + WPF does i no way diminish the fact that VS2010 is built with WPF?

Hrmm? I never said it wasn't, I said VS 2010 was built in WPF. I said Office & Windows Live Messenger/Essentials aren't, at all :p.

Though I suppose I was wording it wrong - what I meant was that Expression Design didn't use any .NET at all outside of WPF - whereas Blend for example does.

[MFH]

Though I suppose I was wording it wrong - what I meant was that Expression Design didn't use any .NET at all outside of WPF - whereas Blend for example does.

Oh, ok.

EDIT:

[smartass-mode]One could argue that Expression is .NET , 'cause: They most likely are using C++/CLI as a bridge-language. Which actually means that the native C++-code becomes .NET-code (except it's stored in a native DLL and invoked via P/Invoke or a COM-Callable-Wrapper) and is just unsafe/unmanaged code with unmanaged types, which are than used through managed-wrappers (C++/CLI) in managed code? ^^ [/smartass-mode]

[Aethec]

Ok, either i misphrased it, or you didn't understand me correctly. I'll try it again :)

Matter of fact: It's completely irrelevant in what language the Code is written, 'cause .NET uses CIL. So having the core written in C++ and the UI in .NET + WPF does i no way diminish the fact that VS2010 is built with WPF?

Actually, VS2010 is a mix of WPF and WinForms. For example, all settings are in WinForms except the IntelliTrace ones which are in WPF.

[neufuse Veteran]

Seems to be a lot smoother if anything to be versus 2008, especially once addons are throwing a lot of extra stuff into the mix. (Hard to see the difference if you just look at screenshots.. in that case yea looks about the same.) CodeRush for example adds a ton of extra visual elements that used to bog the old 2008 interface down something ugly, in 2010 it's smooth as glass. 2008 would flicker like mad too when scrolling/redrawing/etc, but that might be due to me being on XP back then.. not sure who was at fault there.

We're still having problems with code rush..... still slows down on major solutions (literately 100+ projects in the solution) here even with VS2010... even cause a few IDE crashes.... but better then it use to be... had devexpress look into some issues already...

[Jen Smith]

We're still having problems with code rush..... still slows down on major solutions (literately 100+ projects in the solution) here even with VS2010... even cause a few IDE crashes.... but better then it use to be... had devexpress look into some issues already...

No arguments there, I love CodeRush/Refactor Pro... but slim and efficient it ain't. VS2010 out of the box is pretty peppy on a mid-range machine, but CodeRush can bring it to a crawl rather quick with a large solution unless you're sporiting a pretty hefty system with a pantload of memory behind it. Hopefully 2011.1 addresses some of that. Disabling real-time code analysis helps a lot though, but kind of defeats a good bit of why I have it installed in the first place. I typically just use my main desktop for the actual writing (has the muscle to run it comfortably) and have a couple other machines building now via TFS.

[Aethec]

Adding HTML5 and JavaScript as first-class development technologies doesn't preclude maintaining or enhancing support for .NET, XAML, Silverlight, etc.

Source: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2011/06/06/join-us-for-build.aspx#10171843

[Flawed]

Between flash being the dominant browser plugin, and the announcement of HTML5, the death knell has been rung for Silverlight.

[KingCrimson]

Source: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2011/06/06/join-us-for-build.aspx#10171843

Adding HTML5 and JavaScript as first-class development technologies doesn't preclude maintaining or enhancing support for .NET, XAML, Silverlight, etc.

I promote the Web-oriented, standards-based technologies here as this is the IE blog.

That doesn't sound to me like a ringing endorsement of .NET technologies. WPF fits into "etc."?????? Sounds to me like MSFT is getting rid of .NET shortly.

[Andre S. Veteran]

(Why still no folder picker?!)

(Go vote for it!)

[Aethec]

That doesn't sound to me like a ringing endorsement of .NET technologies. WPF fits into "etc."?????? Sounds to me like MSFT is getting rid of .NET shortly.

That sounds like what a Web dev would say.

If he said anything else, it'd mean MS doesn't care about HTML any more, and that'd be even worse.

Microsoft has a lot of prototypes using .NET - Midori, the fully .NET operating system (including drivers) is just one example.

JS might be nice for very small apps (I hate non-typed languages and script languages, I can't really give an objective opinion here) but C# is here to stay (and evolve).

@Dr_Asik: Thanks for the link - upvoted.

[KingCrimson]

That sounds like what a Web dev would say.

If he said anything else, it'd mean MS doesn't care about HTML any more, and that'd be even worse.

Microsoft has a lot of prototypes using .NET - Midori, the fully .NET operating system (including drivers) is just one example.

JS might be nice for very small apps (I hate non-typed languages and script languages, I can't really give an objective opinion here) but C# is here to stay (and evolve).

@Dr_Asik: Thanks for the link - upvoted.

I just can't imagine being without .NET! I'd be out of a career, it's all I've done for the last decade! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[Lezard]

Whats Silverlight? :huh:

[Growled Member]

I just can't imagine being without .NET! I'd be out of a career, it's all I've done for the last decade! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

I can't imagine being without it either. I really don't think we will. HTML5 and all these other new technologies are not a complete replacement yet. Maybe one day but not today.

[MFH]

Whats Silverlight? :huh:

Nowadays? Multiple things.

• UI Framework for Windows Phone 7
  
• Web-version of WPF vor RichUIs
  
• Multimedia framework
  
• UI framework for Desktop-applications
  

[e-berlin.org]

WTF is WPF? And Silver what?

[+virtorio MVC]

WTF is WPF? And Silver what?

Answered many times though this thread.

[Lezard]

Nowadays? Multiple things.

• UI Framework for Windows Phone 7
  
• Web-version of WPF vor RichUIs
  
• Multimedia framework
  
• UI framework for Desktop-applications
  

Awesome, thanks for the explanation, I looked around teh web and saw what it can do, very limited compared to flash nowadays, but I hope Ms can one up them.

[wongogue]

For lack of a better name I'm using MetroUI as a shorcut for the Metro-ish dashboard that's intended to be the default UI in Windows 8 :)

That Metro-ish dashboard is the new replacement for your Start Menu.