Recommended Posts

There are massive quantities of water and CO2 ice immediately under the sands, and more at the poles. During Martian summers some of the water ice melts and causes washes from the crater rims into their basins.

Water: no problem

CO2: no problem (can be easily turned into carbon monoxide or methane - both are rocket fuels)

Greenhouse gases: no problem (CO2, methane etc.)

Let's fix this planet first before we destroy another one.

The money that would be spent on achieving this could get rid of poverty, famine, homeless, etc.

You will never get rid of those problems by throwing money at them.

This planet will not support our species forever, and developing terraforming/planet colonisation technology is preparing for the future.

Sadly it seems far too many people would rather throw money at an unsolvable problem than develop technology.

Golfing on Mars would be different, i'll give you that much. 0.4g, very thin air...wow, you'd be an ace. this is something the extended version of Avatar touched on until the editors took it out.

anyway, terraforming should be a sovereign issue. once Mars is self-sufficient and there are generations of people born there, let them decide if they want to terraform it. maybe they will get used to stepping out in walkers and re-breathers, and wouldn't want to be like Earth. maybe they'd prefer the genetic mutation routre for their kids. remember these people may not look at Earth as home at all, they may think of us as an over-crowded, violent, and over industrialized place that they don't want to resemble. yes, that would make them total hipocrites, but it'd be their world.

or could just develop war ships with shields and lasers and stuff, and go out into the galaxy and take what we need to advance alot faster than we should. That sounds like a good idea to me, and if we get attacked we got doctor who to save us so all is good :D

Even if you can change the atmosphere you still can't be on Mars and Venus without space suit, because both Mars and Venus have no magnetosphere.

How will you get Mars to generate a protective magnetic field .... ?

Still wondering -- how many plants can survive the radiation ...

There's been a couple of small-scale experiments that show that artificial magnetic sheilding with relatively modest power requirements is possible. You wouldn't have to cover the whole planet, just the areas that are inhabited (by humans, or other animals, and plants).

As for the atmosphere blowing away in the solar winds, I'm sure that it would be possible to generate atmospheric gasses far faster than they get blown away.

Earth hasn't - we lose a bit too due to being closer to the sun, magnetosphere or not. ForcMars to get where it is took >3 billion years so....

As to plans and radiation - there have been numerous studies showing higher background levels actually enhance plant growth, and some grow so well it seems they like hot zones. Engineer variants with those characteristics that also produce high O2 levels and just stand back.

yeah this obsession with radiation when it comes to space is like mariners worrying about kraken in the past...it's way overblown. initially, Mars settlers will live in caves or underground bunker-like accommodations. radiation will not be a problem. and Mars has enough water and oxygen to support agriculture, it's just locked in the soil/rocks or floating in the thin atmosphere. huge dew collectors/dehumidifiers will work wonders. these are all simple technologies. the only challenge is deciding to do it and then finding the resources to get that interplanetary highway going.

^ Strange. I've read that astronauts exposed the Space radiation, beyond a limited time, will turn them into blithering idiots, if not kill them.

The health threat from cosmic rays is the danger posed by galactic cosmic rays and solar energetic particles to astronauts on interplanetary missions. Galactic cosmic rays (GCR) consist of high energy protons (85%), helium (14%) and other high energy nuclei (HZE). Solar energetic particles consist primarily of protons accelerated by the sun to high energies via proximity to solar flares and coronal mass ejections. They are one of the most important barriers standing in the way of plans for interplanetary travel by crewed spacecraft.

The effects of space radiation, as with other ionizing radiation, involve direct and indirect damage to DNA and these can result in acute and chronic health effects. Acute (or early radiation) effects result from large radiation exposure over a short duration, and these are most likely to occur after solar particle events (SPEs) . Chronic effects of space radiation exposure include radiation carcinogenesis and degenerative tissue effects. Additionally, the risk of both early and late effects on the central nervous system have yet to be identified.

Material shielding can be effective against galactic cosmic rays, but thin shielding may situationally actually make the problem worse for some of the higher energy rays, because more shielding causes an increased amount of secondary radiation, although very (arguably impractically) thick shielding could counter such too.The aluminum walls of the ISS, for example, are believed to have a net beneficial effect. In interplanetary space, however, it is believed that thin aluminum shielding would have a negative net effect.

ScienceDaily (Oct. 25, 2006) ? A better understanding of solar storms and how best to protect astronauts from space radiation is needed as NASA pushes toward manned missions to the moon and Mars in the coming decades, according to a new National Research Council report.

Astronauts are regularly exposed to high doses of radiation, including galactic cosmic rays -- thought to come from distant supernova explosions -- as well as energetic particles from the sun and charged particles trapped in Earth's magnetic field, he said.

Potential health effects include leukemia and other cancers, and degenerative tissue effects like cataracts, heart disease, digestive diseases and respiratory diseases, according to the report.

Radiation also can cause damage to the central nervous system and cause acute risks like vomiting and nausea, said Baker.

"One concern is that astronauts could become ill from space radiation effects and vomit in their space suits, which could be extremely serious," he said.

Space Radiation Too Deadly For Mars Mission

by Charles Q. Choi, Special to SPACE.com

Date: 31 March 2008

Dangerous levels of radiation in space could bar astronauts from a mission to Mars and limit prolonged activity on the moon, experts now caution.

However, more research could reveal ways to handle the risks that radiation poses to space missions.

The magnetic field of Earth protects humanity from radiation in space that can damage or kill cells. Once beyond this shield, people become far more vulnerable.

Astronauts have long seen white flashes while in space due to cosmic rays, or extremely high-energy particles, passing through their heads. A return to the moon or a mission to Mars that NASA and other space agencies are planning would place astronauts at continued risk from cosmic rays or dangerous bursts of solar radiation.

Mission timing is very important for a crewed Mars mission. It must start just before solar minimum when flares are rare and weak.

Also helpful would be high hydrogen content shields; water or polymers. Metal is more prone to producing x-rays as scatter vis the Bremsstrahlung reaction. Thicker is better - and Bigelow's hab tech is ~16" thick, not counting the optional water shields.

Also - in the lab it's been shown that magnetic or electric fields could be generated around a spacecraft hab. Inject a thin plasma into that field and it enhances the effect. Basically, it becomes an artificial magnetosphere. Time this left the lab for a subscale high-orbital test.

As for human exposure, some extremely interesting results are coming out of DARPA's RaBiD program. In mice (an excellent human analog) they have shown that a dose of antibiotic (Cipro, etc.) combined with bactericidal/permeability-increasing protein (BPI) massively increases survivability to what otherwise would be lethal radiation doses. Better yet - the dose can be given up to a day after exposure.

Since humans are even more sensitive than mice are they are rushing to tests on radiation therapy patients. If their radiation response diminishes it's a big advance.

Radiation is not an issue. Some of you guys sound like so-called reputable experts who warned of falling off the edge of the world if you travel too far by ship. With proper funding all of these minor problems can be resolved. People said the same thing about aviation as late as a few decades ago. A hundred years ago you had doctors testifying that the human body can't handle prolonged exposure to vehicle speeds of over 20 miles an hour. One thing we never lacked are excuses to be lazy. Or narrow mindedness.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Pretty nice tool, thanks
    • Indeed. But note that this has Wifi7, HDMI 2.1, BlueTooth 5.4, and 5G Ethernet, so even in the additional features list this bundle blows the Steam Machine away. And, with the money saved, one could improve this dramatically.
    • One of the strangest galaxies in our Universe could help answer some long overdue questions by Sayan Sen Image by Pixabay via Pexels | Not representative An international team of astronomers led by the Department of Astronomy at Tsinghua University has discovered an unusually metal-poor galaxy that may contain signs of first-generation star formation. The galaxy, named Metal-Pristine Galaxy COSMOS Redshift 3 (MPG-CR3), or CR3, was identified using observations from the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST), the Very Large Telescope (VLT), and the Subaru Telescope. The findings, published in The Astrophysical Journal Letters, describe CR3 as the most metal-poor galaxy known from the period known as "cosmic noon," around 11.5 billion years ago. Cosmic noon refers to a period when the universe was producing stars at its highest rate and galaxies were growing rapidly. In astronomy, "metals" refers to all elements heavier than helium, including oxygen, carbon, and iron. Because CR3 contains so few of these heavier elements, researchers say it closely resembles what scientists expect the earliest galaxies in the universe may have looked like. The discovery is significant because it could offer clues about Population III (Pop III) stars, the first generation of stars thought to have formed after the Big Bang. These stars are believed to have formed from gas made almost entirely of hydrogen and helium, before heavier elements were created inside stars and spread across the universe through supernova explosions. Hence this is why CR3 has been referred to as a "living fossil." Scientists have long believed that Population III stars existed only in the very early universe. As more generations of stars formed and died, they enriched surrounding gas with heavier elements, making the conditions needed for metal-free star formation increasingly rare. Because of this, researchers expected the formation of such stars to have largely ended after the epoch of reionization, a period when radiation from the first stars and galaxies transformed the neutral hydrogen filling the universe and made it largely transparent to ultraviolet light. CR3 appears to challenge that idea. The galaxy was observed at a redshift of z = 3.193 ± 0.016. Redshift measures how much light from a distant object has been stretched as the universe expands and helps astronomers determine how far back in time they are looking. In this case, the redshift corresponds to roughly 11.5 billion years ago during cosmic noon. Although the universe was already several billion years old by that point, CR3 shows characteristics more commonly associated with much earlier galaxies. Observations revealed exceptionally strong emissions from hydrogen and helium, including Lyα, Hα, and He I λ10830. Lyα, or Lyman-alpha emission, is a specific wavelength of light produced by hydrogen and is widely used to study distant galaxies. Hα emission is another hydrogen signature commonly used to trace active star formation, while He I λ10830 is produced by helium and can indicate the presence of very hot, young stars. The measured equivalent widths of EW₀(Lyα) = 822 ± 101 Å and EW₀(Hα) = 2814 ± 327 Å are among the highest ever observed in star-forming galaxies. Equivalent width is a measure of the strength of an emission line relative to the surrounding light, and such large values are typically associated with intense and very recent star formation. At the same time, researchers found no statistically significant detections of metal emission lines, including [O III] λλ4959, 5007 and C IV λλ1548, 1550. Emission lines act as chemical fingerprints that reveal which elements are present in a galaxy. Oxygen and carbon lines are commonly seen in galaxies that have already undergone significant chemical enrichment. Their absence in CR3 suggests an unusually pristine environment. Using abundance calibration methods developed with JWST observations, the team placed a 2σ upper limit on the galaxy's gas-phase metallicity of 12+log(O/H)<6.52, corresponding to less than 0.7% of the Sun's metallicity (Z < 7 × 10⁻³ Z⊙). Gas-phase metallicity measures the abundance of heavy elements in a galaxy's gas. A 2σ upper limit indicates that the true value is very unlikely to be higher than the quoted threshold. Even when accounting for uncertainties in the calibration methods, the most conservative limit remains 12+log(O/H)<6.95, making CR3 the most metal-poor galaxy identified at cosmic noon. The galaxy also appears to contain very little dust. Researchers measured a Lyα/Hα flux ratio of 13.9 ± 2.5, a result that suggests negligible dust attenuation, meaning very little of the galaxy's light is being absorbed or scattered by cosmic dust. Because dust is usually produced by earlier generations of stars, this finding further supports the idea that CR3 has experienced very little chemical enrichment. Further analysis using spectral energy distribution modelling, a technique that compares observed light with theoretical models, suggests that CR3 contains an extremely young stellar population only around 2 million years old. The modelling, which used Population III stellar templates, also indicates the galaxy has a stellar mass of approximately 6.1 × 10⁵ M⊙. The symbol M⊙ represents one solar mass, or the mass of the Sun. One of the key questions raised by the discovery is how such a chemically primitive galaxy could exist in a universe that had already spent billions of years producing heavier elements. To investigate this, the researchers examined CR3's surroundings. Their analysis suggests the galaxy may lie in a slightly underdense environment, with a density contrast of roughly δ ≈ −0.12. An underdense region contains less matter and fewer galaxies than average. The team suggests that this relative isolation may have helped preserve pockets of pristine gas. Metal-rich material expelled from nearby galaxies may never have reached CR3, while the lower rate of galaxy mergers and interactions could have slowed the mixing of enriched gas into the system. If future observations confirm these findings, CR3 could provide some of the strongest evidence yet that first-generation star formation continued well after the epoch of reionization. Such a result would challenge the conventional view that pristine star formation ended by z ≳ 6 and suggest that small pockets of metal-free gas survived much longer than previously thought. Researchers stress that more observations will be needed to determine the galaxy's true nature. Future spectroscopic studies with higher resolution and better signal quality could help confirm whether CR3 is genuinely hosting Population III star formation. The discovery is also expected to encourage searches for other similar galaxies, which could help astronomers better understand how the first stars formed and how galaxies evolved in the early universe. Source: Tsinghua University, IOPscience This article was generated with some help from AI and reviewed by an editor. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, this material is used for the purpose of news reporting. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
    • "I think in the immediate absence of a partner to apply relief" In the words of Sterling Archer... "Phrasing!"
  • Recent Achievements

    • Dedicated
      HidekoYamamoto94 earned a badge
      Dedicated
    • One Month Later
      timbobit earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • One Month Later
      nates earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Almohandis earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Rookie
      dorf went up a rank
      Rookie
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      454
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      161
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      107
    4. 4
      Michael Scrip
      83
    5. 5
      Steven P.
      70
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!