MindTrickz Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Terraforming? That is a good one. NASA could barely send a remote controlled toy to Mars and they are now considering terraforming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilo Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Unless they find a way to form massive amounts of water on Mars, this really could never feasibly happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 There are massive quantities of water and CO2 ice immediately under the sands, and more at the poles. During Martian summers some of the water ice melts and causes washes from the crater rims into their basins. Water: no problem CO2: no problem (can be easily turned into carbon monoxide or methane - both are rocket fuels) Greenhouse gases: no problem (CO2, methane etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightDevil Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I think if so, we should start by the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 The problem with the moon is very lottle CO2 or water and a gravity field far weaker than Mars, making terraforming a no-go. There you need hardened habitats, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Let's fix this planet first before we destroy another one. The money that would be spent on achieving this could get rid of poverty, famine, homeless, etc. You will never get rid of those problems by throwing money at them.This planet will not support our species forever, and developing terraforming/planet colonisation technology is preparing for the future. Sadly it seems far too many people would rather throw money at an unsolvable problem than develop technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotdot Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 First things 1st here, we need a Golf Course. DChiuch 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Golfing on Mars would be different, i'll give you that much. 0.4g, very thin air...wow, you'd be an ace. this is something the extended version of Avatar touched on until the editors took it out. anyway, terraforming should be a sovereign issue. once Mars is self-sufficient and there are generations of people born there, let them decide if they want to terraform it. maybe they will get used to stepping out in walkers and re-breathers, and wouldn't want to be like Earth. maybe they'd prefer the genetic mutation routre for their kids. remember these people may not look at Earth as home at all, they may think of us as an over-crowded, violent, and over industrialized place that they don't want to resemble. yes, that would make them total hipocrites, but it'd be their world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psionicinversion Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 or could just develop war ships with shields and lasers and stuff, and go out into the galaxy and take what we need to advance alot faster than we should. That sounds like a good idea to me, and if we get attacked we got doctor who to save us so all is good :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Still wondering -- how many plants can survive the radiation ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹ Posted January 17, 2012 Subscriber¹ Share Posted January 17, 2012 Even if you can change the atmosphere you still can't be on Mars and Venus without space suit, because both Mars and Venus have no magnetosphere. How will you get Mars to generate a protective magnetic field .... ? Still wondering -- how many plants can survive the radiation ... There's been a couple of small-scale experiments that show that artificial magnetic sheilding with relatively modest power requirements is possible. You wouldn't have to cover the whole planet, just the areas that are inhabited (by humans, or other animals, and plants). As for the atmosphere blowing away in the solar winds, I'm sure that it would be possible to generate atmospheric gasses far faster than they get blown away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 ^ Wouldn't Mars run out of gas material to create those ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Earth hasn't - we lose a bit too due to being closer to the sun, magnetosphere or not. ForcMars to get where it is took >3 billion years so.... As to plans and radiation - there have been numerous studies showing higher background levels actually enhance plant growth, and some grow so well it seems they like hot zones. Engineer variants with those characteristics that also produce high O2 levels and just stand back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 yeah this obsession with radiation when it comes to space is like mariners worrying about kraken in the past...it's way overblown. initially, Mars settlers will live in caves or underground bunker-like accommodations. radiation will not be a problem. and Mars has enough water and oxygen to support agriculture, it's just locked in the soil/rocks or floating in the thin atmosphere. huge dew collectors/dehumidifiers will work wonders. these are all simple technologies. the only challenge is deciding to do it and then finding the resources to get that interplanetary highway going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 yeah this obsession with radiation when it comes to space is like mariners worrying about kraken in the past...it's way overblown.\ We'll send you first, to see if you survive the rads. :shifty: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Knight Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 If you catapult dead bodies to Mars then you'll give them some bacteria and stuff to work with. Wolfbane 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If you catapult dead bodies to Mars then you'll give them some bacteria and stuff to work with. This.Why use rockets when you can use a catapult? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hum that goes against my let other people do it first policy, but I may consider venturing out here to test for radiation. I think we all know it's not a huge risk. Basic shielding is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 ^ Strange. I've read that astronauts exposed the Space radiation, beyond a limited time, will turn them into blithering idiots, if not kill them. The health threat from cosmic rays is the danger posed by galactic cosmic rays and solar energetic particles to astronauts on interplanetary missions. Galactic cosmic rays (GCR) consist of high energy protons (85%), helium (14%) and other high energy nuclei (HZE). Solar energetic particles consist primarily of protons accelerated by the sun to high energies via proximity to solar flares and coronal mass ejections. They are one of the most important barriers standing in the way of plans for interplanetary travel by crewed spacecraft. The effects of space radiation, as with other ionizing radiation, involve direct and indirect damage to DNA and these can result in acute and chronic health effects. Acute (or early radiation) effects result from large radiation exposure over a short duration, and these are most likely to occur after solar particle events (SPEs) . Chronic effects of space radiation exposure include radiation carcinogenesis and degenerative tissue effects. Additionally, the risk of both early and late effects on the central nervous system have yet to be identified. Material shielding can be effective against galactic cosmic rays, but thin shielding may situationally actually make the problem worse for some of the higher energy rays, because more shielding causes an increased amount of secondary radiation, although very (arguably impractically) thick shielding could counter such too.The aluminum walls of the ISS, for example, are believed to have a net beneficial effect. In interplanetary space, however, it is believed that thin aluminum shielding would have a negative net effect. ScienceDaily (Oct. 25, 2006) ? A better understanding of solar storms and how best to protect astronauts from space radiation is needed as NASA pushes toward manned missions to the moon and Mars in the coming decades, according to a new National Research Council report. Astronauts are regularly exposed to high doses of radiation, including galactic cosmic rays -- thought to come from distant supernova explosions -- as well as energetic particles from the sun and charged particles trapped in Earth's magnetic field, he said. Potential health effects include leukemia and other cancers, and degenerative tissue effects like cataracts, heart disease, digestive diseases and respiratory diseases, according to the report. Radiation also can cause damage to the central nervous system and cause acute risks like vomiting and nausea, said Baker. "One concern is that astronauts could become ill from space radiation effects and vomit in their space suits, which could be extremely serious," he said. Space Radiation Too Deadly For Mars Mission by Charles Q. Choi, Special to SPACE.com Date: 31 March 2008 Dangerous levels of radiation in space could bar astronauts from a mission to Mars and limit prolonged activity on the moon, experts now caution. However, more research could reveal ways to handle the risks that radiation poses to space missions. The magnetic field of Earth protects humanity from radiation in space that can damage or kill cells. Once beyond this shield, people become far more vulnerable. Astronauts have long seen white flashes while in space due to cosmic rays, or extremely high-energy particles, passing through their heads. A return to the moon or a mission to Mars that NASA and other space agencies are planning would place astronauts at continued risk from cosmic rays or dangerous bursts of solar radiation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deactivated_ Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Let's work on fixing the un-terraforming that is currently underway on this planet first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.mcdear Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 mars has no magnetic field to protect the atmosphere from evaporating away from the planet... how do they plan to address this issue to make terraforming a viable option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 ^ I was thinking that maybe they could discover a way to get Mars to generate a magnetic field again. Maybe plants and a significant atmosphere would trigger this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrack Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 My 2c. I think we need to worry about, * Solve today's power crisis * Solve today's food crisis * Solve issues with many incurable deceases * Reach to moon effeciently Then we should talk about reaching to Mars and terraforming it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Mission timing is very important for a crewed Mars mission. It must start just before solar minimum when flares are rare and weak. Also helpful would be high hydrogen content shields; water or polymers. Metal is more prone to producing x-rays as scatter vis the Bremsstrahlung reaction. Thicker is better - and Bigelow's hab tech is ~16" thick, not counting the optional water shields. Also - in the lab it's been shown that magnetic or electric fields could be generated around a spacecraft hab. Inject a thin plasma into that field and it enhances the effect. Basically, it becomes an artificial magnetosphere. Time this left the lab for a subscale high-orbital test. As for human exposure, some extremely interesting results are coming out of DARPA's RaBiD program. In mice (an excellent human analog) they have shown that a dose of antibiotic (Cipro, etc.) combined with bactericidal/permeability-increasing protein (BPI) massively increases survivability to what otherwise would be lethal radiation doses. Better yet - the dose can be given up to a day after exposure. Since humans are even more sensitive than mice are they are rushing to tests on radiation therapy patients. If their radiation response diminishes it's a big advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Radiation is not an issue. Some of you guys sound like so-called reputable experts who warned of falling off the edge of the world if you travel too far by ship. With proper funding all of these minor problems can be resolved. People said the same thing about aviation as late as a few decades ago. A hundred years ago you had doctors testifying that the human body can't handle prolonged exposure to vehicle speeds of over 20 miles an hour. One thing we never lacked are excuses to be lazy. Or narrow mindedness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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