official Windows 8 Consumer Preview Discussion

[Calum Veteran]

By the way, what is the advantage to getting rid of shadows for background windows? :s

I like that they reduced the size of the borders though.

Maybe it's to make more people realise how ugly and inefficient having many windows overlapping on the screen is, leading to them preferring the new multitasking concept that the Metro experience allows for :)

[Dot Matrix]

Microsoft should not move forward and allow the competition to take over the market.

Right on, mate. Microsoft really needs to just roll over and die so that us techies can get on with our lives. We can all finally switch to Linux where nothing ever changes, and finally be happy. I don't care that the consumer will benefit from this, I'm a techie damnit, and I want my techie ways to stay put! Microsoft should only be doing business to please us! What the Hell are they thinking putting consumers first!? ;)

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .] Number two: removing the start button. [. . .]

Why are you so bothered about the Start button not being there? It's on the Charms bar and an option to return to the Start screen is located in the same place the Start button used to sit. There are more ways to return to the Start screen than ever. There is no need for an ugly button sitting on the Taskbar when it provides no benefit.

[Nimdock]

Just to throw in my two cents although I will just sound like a bunch of other people that have said the same already... Maybe some of the things that I mention can be customized but I just started playing with the OS about 4 hours ago.

I do not oppose change just because it is different but it seems to me some of these things do not make sense for a PC.

I have to click extra things to get access to programs and/or settings. For example in the start menu I could just type and everything related to what I was typing would come up. In the start screen I can do kind of the same but if what I am looking for is a setting then I have to click the extra 'Settings' to get what I am looking for.

Also I am completely against full screen metro applications on a PC. I don't want ANYTHING taking over my whole screen (I would be wiling to let the start screen do that, but only the start screen). Do not get me wrong, I am not against metro apps per se... On my Windows Phone I love them but I do not like them one bit taking over my whole screen in my PC. I miss my minimize, maximize, restore down. I also enjoy metro on my xbox. So this is not about metro. I like some of the metro elements in the OS but some just do not seem to belong here.

I do not like that everything metro that I open tends to stay open... I like to close things I am not using (yeah I know they are kind of suspended but I am kind of OCD with open applications :p )... I am NOT A MAC USER. I like having the taskbar that shows me everything I have open at the same time, all the time, without me having to move the mouse to weird places and have overlays come up.

Another quirk I have... Now, when dragging one window to the left and another one to the right so they take half of the screen each there is a tiny amount of empty space between them... AGGHHH... Why? (Maybe this is just an RC problem because they removed the shadows from the windows though... I hope).

[Dot Matrix]

Why are you so bothered about the Start button not being there? It's on the Charms bar and an option to return to the Start screen is located in the same place the Start button used to sit. There are more ways to return to the Start screen than ever. There is no need for an ugly button sitting on the Taskbar when it provides no benefit.

Not to mention 99.9% of Windows PC's also use a keyboard that has a Windows key. The Start button is redundant.

[~Johnny]

Also I am completely against full screen metro applications on a PC. I don't want ANYTHING taking over my whole screen (I would be wiling to let the start screen do that, but only the start screen). Do not get me wrong, I am not against metro apps per se... On my Windows Phone I love them but I do not like them one bit taking over my whole screen in my PC. I miss my minimize, maximize, restore down. I also enjoy metro on my xbox. So this is not about metro. I like some of the metro elements in the OS but some just do not seem to belong here.

I do not like that everything metro that I open tends to stay open... I like to close things I am not using... I am NOT A MAC USER. I like having the taskbar that shows me everything I have open at the same time, all the time, without me having to move the mouse to weird places and have overlays come up.

You don't have to use Metro apps in 8 if you don't want too, bar the start experience. But to close them, just drag them down from the top of the screen to the bottom to get rid of them (though Windows manages their lifecycle automatically, so you don't actually have to bother closing them - they don't effect system performance when not on screen).

[Cereal Bawks]

So yeah, this is what I'll be doing with the final release.

Gotta go with the times, even with filesystems.

[Nimdock]

You don't have to use Metro apps in 8 if you don't want too, bar the start experience. But to close them, just drag them down from the top of the screen to the bottom to get rid of them (though Windows manages their lifecycle automatically, so you don't actually have to bother closing them - they don't effect system performance when not on screen).

Thanks for that tip... Seems a bit to much having to drag the program down but I will give it a try. Maybe I will get used to it.

I do understand they are not affecting performance but I become kind of obsessive compulsive if in the back of my head I know there is anything open. :p

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .]

Also I am completely against full screen metro applications on a PC. I don't want ANYTHING taking over my whole screen (I would be wiling to let the start screen do that, but only the start screen). Do not get me wrong, I am not against metro apps per se... On my Windows Phone I love them but I do not like them one bit taking over my whole screen in my PC. I miss my minimize, maximize, restore down. I also enjoy metro on my xbox. So this is not about metro. I like some of the metro elements in the OS but some just do not seem to belong here.

I do not like that everything metro that I open tends to stay open... I like to close things I am not using (yeah I know they are kind of suspended but I am kind of OCD with open applications :p )... I am NOT A MAC USER. I like having the taskbar that shows me everything I have open at the same time, all the time, without me having to move the mouse to weird places and have overlays come up.

[. . .]

If you don't like the idea of one immersive, beautiful app taking up the entire screen (or one and a half, considering the Metro experience allows for such useful multitasking), I should really ask, . . . what else would you have on your screen? :s

Our biology ensures we are only able to interact with one application at a time. We're able to watch something or look at something else while interacting with an app, which is why the Metro experience allows for having two apps/windows on screen at once. But we are only able to interact with one app/window at any one time. So what else would you have covering other parts of your screen, if you don't have up to two apps covering it? :s

You see, much of the hate toward Windows 8 has come from people being too used to how they work with Windows 7 and how they worked with previous versions. You say you "like" this and that, but I imagine that if the Windows 8 Metro experience was how any operating system had always worked, you would be just as productive as you are currently with Windows 7 and you would see no problem with the new Windows 8 multitasking concept.

By the way, I placed the emoticons there to emphasise how ridiculous the current Windows 7 multitasking idea is compared to the new Windows 8 one. I wasn't trying to sound rude or mocking :) It's just important to point out the silliness of how many people currently multitask :)

[George P Global Moderator]

You can close metro apps from the new task switcher as well either by right clicking and close or a middle mouse click. Personally I think they should add close buttons in the top right corner of the preview windows like we get on the taskbar previews but I doubt they will.

Anyways, all this kickback when MS makes a UI change is nothing new. For everyone crying about the start menu being changed now there were just as many doing the same when they changed it back in XP and people wanted the older older start menu back. I for one, with a mix of new kb shortcuts and so on, see no problem with using Win8 on my desktop at all. Hitting winkey and then typing the name of an app and hitting enter works like always and that's really the only time I do anything with the start menu on 7. The rest of my apps are already pinned to the taskbar.

[Detection]

Close metro apps? Push mouse to top of screen > grab top of app with hand cursor > drag to bottom of screen > release

[Nimdock]

If you don't like the idea of one immersive, beautiful app taking up the entire screen (or one and a half, considering the Metro experience allows for such useful multitasking), I should really ask, . . . what else would you have on your screen? :s

Our biology ensures we are only able to interact with one application at a time. We're able to watch something or look at something else while interacting with an app, which is why the Metro experience allows for having two apps/windows on screen at once. But we are only able to interact with one app/window at any one time. So what else would you have covering other parts of your screen, if you don't have up to two apps covering it? :s

You see, much of the hate toward Windows 8 has come from people being too used to how they work with Windows 7 and how they worked with previous versions. You say you "like" this and that, but I imagine that if the Windows 8 Metro experience was how any operating system had always worked, you would be just as productive as you are currently with Windows 7 and you would see no problem with the new Windows 8 multitasking concept.

By the way, I placed the emoticons there to emphasise how ridiculous the current Windows 7 multitasking idea is compared to the new Windows 8 one. I wasn't trying to sound rude or mocking :) It's just important to point out the silliness of how many people currently multitask :)

You do not sound mocking to me at all. I understand some people will completely like the changes and actually prefer that way of things.

My problem with Windows 8 metro multitasking is that I almost never have a single window on view. I usually have at least two... To name a few examples...

-One window with some code I am writing and another with debugging/testing information.

-One window with some file that I am writing and another with some other file that contains information pertaining to what I am writing that is extremely useful to see at the same time without having to switch back and forth.

-One window with the browser and another one with a video Skype conversation I am having with my girlfriend so she does not think I am ignoring her. :p

I could go on and on... So maybe I got too used to working that way but I do not see how in those cases I would be more effective by only having one piece of information at a time...

Obviously I know I don't have to use metro styled apps... I just hope not everything goes that way... In the next few hours I will have to replace some of the built in apps with my 'own'. I do wish the tiles were more customizable because tiles for non-metro apps are too ugly.

[Muhammad Farrukh]

Close metro apps? Push mouse to top of screen > grab top of app with hand cursor > drag to bottom of screen > release

I thought this was the only way, besides the thing on the upper left :p

[Detection]

I thought this was the only way, besides the thing on the upper left :p

Wait for bluescreen is another way

[SkyDX]

I won't throw up the usual arguments with Metro is good/bad and touch screen arguments, I just wanted to say something else, I think most of the negativity comes because Microsoft is moving a bit too fast. In my opinion they should have done something like this to ease the impact of the paradigm shift:

Two versions of Windows releasing this year, Windows Metro for tablets which would be a evolution of WP7 and Windows 7 Second Edition or Windows 8 if you want to call it like that that has basically all the new stuff like the new Task Manager and Explorer Ribbon and so forth.

Then after these two versions have set it, release Windows 9 which unifies both paradigms. Since Windows Metro is already out there there could take their time to unite them properly with options to satisfy most users instead of the paradigm clash we have now.

Just because Microsoft thinks something will work out it doesn't has to. They got overambitious with Windows Longhorn in 2004 which resulted in a development reset, that alone caused that people got so stuck with the way Windows works because XP was there for ages. When you look at the the Longhorn concept the sidebar they envisioned back then had a few clues we see back in Metro now and right now it seems to me they try to get the time back they lost with Longhorn and might get overambitious again. But that's just my opinion^^

[King Lizzle]

So yeah, this is what I'll be doing with the final release.

Gotta go with the times, even with filesystems.

I thought that file system was for Win Server. Is there any advantage to using that over NTFS in the regular version of Win 8?

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Maybe it's to make more people realise how ugly and inefficient having many windows overlapping on the screen is, leading to them preferring the new multitasking concept that the Metro experience allows for :)

Ha! Possibly. Would be a bit cheeky of them though... :)

[ToneKnee]

Close metro apps? Push mouse to top of screen > grab top of app with hand cursor > drag to bottom of screen > release

Or if it's minimised then you can just middle click the thumb nail as well. :)

[~Johnny]

If you don't like the idea of one immersive, beautiful app taking up the entire screen (or one and a half, considering the Metro experience allows for such useful multitasking), I should really ask, . . . what else would you have on your screen? :s

Our biology ensures we are only able to interact with one application at a time. We're able to watch something or look at something else while interacting with an app, which is why the Metro experience allows for having two apps/windows on screen at once. But we are only able to interact with one app/window at any one time. So what else would you have covering other parts of your screen, if you don't have up to two apps covering it? :s

By the way, I placed the emoticons there to emphasise how ridiculous the current Windows 7 multitasking idea is compared to the new Windows 8 one. I wasn't trying to sound rude or mocking :) It's just important to point out the silliness of how many people currently multitask :)

There are plenty of productivity scenario's where people need to have more than 1, maybe more the 2 windows on their screen, and the metro snapping doesn't cut it, and it's a good reason for the desktop to still exist.

A few examples being -

- A student learning to program, 3 windows - 1 the tutorial, 2 the coding window / notepad, 3 a live preview of their application.

- A digital artist getting inspiration from multiple pictures or sources open up, or photos and ideas to look at as references whilst working.

- Writing a report based on documentation from multiple sources. It's easier to do when you can manage and arrange things on your desktop yourself.

- A university student watching a video / reading through papers and jotting down notes in the adjacent notepad.

- Watching and interacting alongside a video tutorial - for example watching a coding tutorial, and then actually writing it in VS (note, you need a decently sized window for both here)

Even simple things like having multiple conversation windows open on the desktop so you can see everything as it comes and don't have to switch - I mean a conversation window doesn't need all your screen space, and it's quite easy to have 3 or 4 just lying there if you're doing nothing else.

Metro apps are a good idea, but certainly not for everything, and Microsoft know this.

[Woelfel]

I won't throw up the usual arguments with Metro is good/bad and touch screen arguments, I just wanted to say something else, I think most of the negativity comes because Microsoft is moving a bit too fast. In my opinion they should have done something like this to ease the impact of the paradigm shift:

Two versions of Windows releasing this year, Windows Metro for tablets which would be a evolution of WP7 and Windows 7 Second Edition or Windows 8 if you want to call it like that that has basically all the new stuff like the new Task Manager and Explorer Ribbon and so forth.

Then after these two versions have set it, release Windows 9 which unifies both paradigms. Since Windows Metro is already out there there could take their time to unite them properly with options to satisfy most users instead of the paradigm clash we have now.

Just because Microsoft thinks something will work out it doesn't has to. They got overambitious with Windows Longhorn in 2004 which resulted in a development reset, that alone caused that people got so stuck with the way Windows works because XP was there for ages. When you look at the the Longhorn concept the sidebar they envisioned back then had a few clues we see back in Metro now and right now it seems to me they try to get the time back they lost with Longhorn and might get overambitious again. But that's just my opinion^^

My opinion is like...why wait? Why should we wait 3 years to learn something. That's 3 years in which people can get used to learning it so MS can go even further. Actually mid sentence I just noticed that they actually are easily moving forward. If they wanted to do something daring, they would be dropping all legacy. But anyways, yea, I don't think they moved fast at all. It will not take that long to get used to the new OS.

[Anthonyd]

So yeah, this is what I'll be doing with the final release.

Gotta go with the times, even with filesystems.

Gotta go with bullsh*t too. ReFS, for now, is only targeted for company managing huge numbers of data, I don't think that you need anything more than the "storage" provides you.

Read this article plz, you can't even boot on ReFS, again it's only here to store massive datas :

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/01/16/building-the-next-generation-file-system-for-windows-refs.aspx

Close metro apps? Push mouse to top of screen > grab top of app with hand cursor > drag to bottom of screen > release

Closing metro apps is useless, why bother with closing them?

[Mayhem]

already been said on this topic, it will come Windows 7 Start Menus programs to Windows 8

for now you can do 2 things, download ViStart at -> http://lee-soft.com/vistart/

ViStart kills totally the new Metro Menu, you hit Windows key and will bring also the ViStart

ViStart has the problem that will overlapt the first icon on Windows 8, to fix that go to www. sevenforuns /tutorials/20602-taskbar-center-icons.html

result:

it has it on the center, you can move the bar to be near the new Start Menu icon from Vistart and its done

[Calum Veteran]

There are plenty of productivity scenario's where people need to have more than 1, maybe more the 2 windows on their screen, and the metro snapping doesn't cut it, and it's a good reason for the desktop to still exist.

A few examples being -

- A student learning to program, 3 windows - 1 the tutorial, 2 the coding window / notepad, 3 a live preview of their application.

- A digital artist getting inspiration from multiple pictures or sources open up, or photos and ideas to look at as references whilst working.

- Writing a report based on documentation from multiple sources. It's easier to do when you can manage and arrange things on your desktop yourself.

- A university student watching a video / reading through papers and jotting down notes in the adjacent notepad.

- Watching and interacting alongside a video tutorial - for example watching a coding tutorial, and then actually writing it in VS (note, you need a decently sized window for both here)

Even simple things like having multiple conversation windows open on the desktop so you can see everything as it comes and don't have to switch - I mean a conversation window doesn't need all your screen space, and it's quite easy to have 3 or 4 just lying there if you're doing nothing else.

Metro apps are a good idea, but certainly not for everything, and Microsoft know this.

Our eyes are only able to look at one source of information at once and biology ensures we're only able to interact with one app at once. The Windows 8 Metro experience allows for incredibly fast app switching, so switching to another window could be just like moving our face/eyes to look at another source of information.

There is no need for having more than two apps on screen at any one point in any of the examples you mentioned above. Due to the ability to switch apps fast in Windows 8, productivity would not be harmed by only having two apps on screen at any one time during any of those scenarios.

As I mention, biology does not allow us to have our eyes on more than one source of information at once.

[Anthonyd]

Metro apps are a good idea, but certainly not for everything, and Microsoft know this.

What you need is a second screen or metro snapping.

[9UnknownMen]

Our eyes are only able to look at one source of information at once and biology ensures we're only able to interact with one app at once. The Windows 8 Metro experience allows for incredibly fast app switching, so switching to another window could be just like moving our face/eyes to look at another source of information.

There is no need for having more than two apps on screen at any one point in any of the examples you mentioned above. Due to the ability to switch apps fast in Windows 8, productivity would not be harmed by only having two apps on screen at any one time during any of those scenarios.

As I mention, biology does not allow us to have our eyes on more than one source of information at once.

Oh brother. So now Win8 is addressing our physiological needs that we haven't yet appreciated till now.

Bless your heart, this is getting quite entertaining.