official Windows 8 Consumer Preview Discussion

[Cereal Bawks]

If they'd do what the WP7 team says, we'd not even have background motives and gradiented system tiles.

And the Xbox UI is just Metro tiles on the front. As soon you go past that, you're greeted with the pre-Metro Xbox UI.

--edit: Anyway, I'm sure that changes will be made for the RC, based on user feedback. Feature completeness isn't a requirement for Sinofsky to start a beta. If Office's ribbon UI during its beta is anything to go by, things are not set in stone.

[encarta]

If they'd do what the WP7 team says, we'd not even have background motives and gradiented system tiles.

And the Xbox UI is just Metro tiles on the front. As soon you go past that, you're greeted with the pre-Metro Xbox UI.

--edit: Anyway, I'm sure that changes will be made for the RC, based on user feedback. Feature completeness isn't a requirement for Sinofsky to start a beta. If Office's ribbon UI during its beta is anything to go by, things are not set in stone.

I hope you're right. Like I've said, I really like Metro, but I hate how it's implemented in Win8.

[Another Canuck]

Thanks but still.... WHY? Why do I have to change something that Win8 already knows? This is yet another example of why I say we deal with 2 OS at the same time. "Metro" and "Desktop". Don't think that because "Desktop" knows you're in Canada/Metric that "Metro" does....

Because all of the preview apps are horrendously buggy and incomplete. There's still a lot of work to be done.

[Anthonyd]

You actually realize that Win9 Client will get ReFS? Microsoft said so clearly. The only reason it's not yet in Win8 is their file system maturing process. Same happened with NTFS back then, back with NT3.1. Server first, then NT3.5 had NTFS enabled in the client.

And it's not just for massive data, it also offers resiliency. I mean, it's in its damn name, for Christ's sake. What good are mirrored or parity storage spaces, if the file system on top can't exploit it?

Well, anyway, you can use ReFS on the client, if you really want to. Unless you're really ball breakingly depending on some of the dropped features, nothing speaks against it.

And oh, reading an article means squat. I'd suggest you try to understand what you've linked.

It seems that you have missed a lot thing.

Where did you see that Win9 will use ReFS as it's main filesystem? Because for now you can't boot on a ReFS partition. So it will either use an updated (for client) version of ReFS, or it will support it for storages only. Don't forget that ReFS doesn't support strong client feature such as EFS and it cannot be used on removable drive.

I think that you want to use ReFS "for ze lulz of using new techs" instead of using it for its purpose. Just use the damn "storage" feature on Windows 8, it will do anything you need.

[Cereal Bawks]

Where did you see that Win9 will use ReFS as it's main filesystem?

Thanks, I was just waiting for that. You pretty much admitted to not properly reading the blog post you linked. And I didn't say main filesystem, I said it will "officially" support it.

Because for now you can't boot on a ReFS partition. So it will either use an updated (for client) version of ReFS, or it will support it for storages only. Don't forget that ReFS doesn't support strong client feature such as EFS and it cannot be used on removable drive.

Did I ever say I need to boot from it? Some people have multiple disks in their computers. They're usually used to store data and probably wouldn't want to be booted from to begin with.

I think that you want to use ReFS "for ze lulz of using new techs" instead of using it for its purpose. Just use the damn "storage" feature on Windows 8, it will do anything you need.

Its purpose is to store data. I'm not sure what you think I'm doing wrong here. If it's suitable for servers, it sure is for clients. You're just having a hissy fit for no reason.

You'll probably also get bent out of shape over the fact that during the years I ran OpenSolaris, I was using ZFS for my data, despite it not being bootable during the majority of that time, nor it fully supporting all of the UFS features, or encryption, among other things, during various points in its time. amirite?

[Wakers]

So, my desktop locked up about an hour into running the beta. I don't know whether it was Speccy that caused it or something else yet - but I don't think I'll be testing it much more on this machine if it's going to be unstable - especially on a machine that has not hard a serious crash of any type for many, many months.

Anyone else had it lock up?

[Stoffel]

People may be more used to a smartphone which they carry with them in their pocket and operate with their fingers, and tablets that they read in bed with. Metro UI for tablets and phones looks fantastic.

Fingers and swipes are divergent behavior from what people do on a desktop. If you're employed or working on a desktop for productivity, typically the work is far more complicated than what you do on a tablet. I wouldn't dream of doing extensive work in an ssh terminal from a tablet. It just doesn't work well, I've tried. It's also a different mode of interaction, it's a mouse and keyboard.

So if you have two completely divergent modes of interaction it becomes a bit hard to justify to the average user that you're going to make them operate in a completely and radically different way. While write once, run anywhere is a godsend to developers it may not be to the user base.

Again, this is a business decision Microsoft is making. Everyone that is saying "well people just need to get used to it," they really don't. They can choose not to upgrade. This isn't like Facebook where people can't take their money and walk away, that's a free service. Microsoft has to rely on these people finding Windows 8 compelling enough to upgrade and purchase. So far the visceral reaction I'm seeing from everyone is really, really bad. This release is going to be driven by consumer demand, not by enterprise, that much is clear. And if consumers hate it, it flops and Microsoft loses A LOT of money.

Everybody threatens, "oh I'm going to go to Linux" or "I'm going to go to Apple." What really happens? People just skip the release, and that's bad business.

Doesn't matter how 'bad' Win8 will be. Everybody buying a new pc will have Win8 pre installed on it and MS will get their money.

Most of the people talking about Win8 at the moment are the power users and Tech enthusiasts. Usually those are the people that oppose to change the most.

They also all complained when XP/Vista/7 was in beta.

The average Joe hasn't seen or heard of Win8.

[dafin0]

a lot of people who say they hate Windows 8 seam to have the thinking that you are not allowed to use the desktop anymore and that it has to be all metro... the desktop is there for a reason and they have done a lot to explorer to make it much better so USE IT, they also have better multi monitor support on the desktop.

people someone tell me how any of that is bad.

So, my desktop locked up about an hour into running the beta. I don't know whether it was Speccy that caused it or something else yet - but I don't think I'll be testing it much more on this machine if it's going to be unstable - especially on a machine that has not hard a serious crash of any type for many, many months.

Anyone else had it lock up?

iv had it locked up once or twice, normally when opening a metro app. lock ups are kinda to be expected in a beta but it doesnt happen so much to be annoying, atlest for me

Also i do understand why some people would want the start menu but i think its someone people will get used to quickly like with office 2010 full page section (where you save, print, stuff like that). but anyways i think a good way for Microsoft to get around this is to let the used RIGHT CLICK at the bottom left to have the old start menu back. i cant think of any problems that would cause.

Edited March 3, 2012 by dafin0

[Calum Veteran]

Please tell me you're not serious :laugh: According to your statement, it's faster to switch to another app than just focus your eyes to another window (let's say you have 4 of them on the screen)? No need for having more than 2 apps on screen? You just lost all credibility with that statement.

I didn't suggest it was faster. That proves you didn't read or understand my post. It isn't even as fast, but it is almost as fast, and thus, productivity will not be lost and there is no need for having more than two open.

That's the way I view it, as a software developer and designer.

[Cereal Bawks]

You get used to it. A lot of applications don't deal well with large screen surfaces. Too much white space. Content creation apps, sure, you never have enough screen space. But anything an office worker uses, I feel it's just wasted space everywhere. Of course, I'm not cramming MAXXXXXIMUM amounts of windows into the desktop, I still try to arrange and keep things identifiable without moving things around. A second screen, like I have, naturally helps with that.

[BajiRav]

Apple included video tutorials with OS X' System Preferences so people can quickly learn how to use the different gestures. Is such a thing present in Windows 8? So far I haven't been able to find it.

while not exactly same, i think windows.com has some info.

Yeah, this annoys me. I would like to be able to just move my mouse toward the edge of the screen in any app, to move across, like I can on the Start screen.

side note:did you know that the start screen slide speed with mouse depends on how fast or slow you approach the edge? nice little trick they mentioned on windows weekly.

[Calum Veteran]

Our eyes don't, but our brain can handle holding the information as we switch views. Heck, as I write this, I've just been working with two Visual Studio windows snapped side by side at one point comparing code (which can't be done properly with the mini snapped states Metro bring), and at one point even opened up an IE Window as a third Window so I could compare to some online code too - something that allows me to be more productive. No time wasted snapping views or switching apps, everything I want from all my sources can fit on the screen, so I should let them. None of those windows need my full screen space for the task, but they can't do their task put into a small snap state either. (as an aside... Probably shouldn't have based my final year Uni project on WinRT considering it's unfinishedness).

Don't get me wrong, I still use Metro apps (I'm actually writing 3 of them now), and I think they have their place and they can provide a great experience if executed well. I just don't think they're suited to replace everything.

We might just have to agree to disagree then.

I cannot stand the idea of the Desktop mode continuing to exist and I would like the Metro experience to fully replace it at some point, with Microsoft figuring out a decent way to include more complex apps like Visual Studio and Photoshop. So because I dislike the Desktop mode and that way of multitasking, I'm willing to give the Windows 8 Metro experience a decent go to confirm whether any productivity is actually lost. I don't expect it to be lost, due to how easy and quick changing apps/windows is and due to the other great features of the Metro experience.

[remixedcat]

How good does the media app handle large playlists (over 1000 songs)??? anyone care to try that?? Post screenshots please.

I wish I can try this but it will have to wait till I get another HDD for it.

[Calum Veteran]

side note:did you know that the start screen slide speed with mouse depends on how fast or slow you approach the edge? nice little trick they mentioned on windows weekly.

Heh, I didn't know that, but it's pretty cool, so thanks for mentioning it :)

[~Johnny]

side note:did you know that the start screen slide speed with mouse depends on how fast or slow you approach the edge? nice little trick they mentioned on windows weekly.

Technically it's not actually dependent speed as such - it's simply every pixel you move your mouse off the end of the screen, it scrolls the start screen one pixel in that direction :p

[jarrettwold]

Sure, everyone buying a new PC will get Windows 8 pre-installed. But, what's the compelling reason to upgrade?

Again, Metro as a UI is fantastic. Where the complaints start rolling is how it's hybridized. When it comes to power users and tech enthusiasts, outside of Linux, Windows for a very long time has allowed you to do whatever you wanted. By subtracting features that's where the complaints are coming from.

I'm still giving Windows 8 a go, and will likely for at least a month.

Doesn't matter how 'bad' Win8 will be. Everybody buying a new pc will have Win8 pre installed on it and MS will get their money.

Most of the people talking about Win8 at the moment are the power users and Tech enthusiasts. Usually those are the people that oppose to change the most.

They also all complained when XP/Vista/7 was in beta.

The average Joe hasn't seen or heard of Win8.

[jarrettwold]

I can genuinely say, that Windows, without windows is not an OS I'm willing to use. If they were to completely ditch the desktop, well that's why I jumped ship with Ubuntu and ditched out to XFCE.

I'm willing to try the interaction model they have right now, as its interesting and I can see where they're going. But, to eliminate the desktop completely? In development environments, system administration and elsewhere there is no way that I can function without a windowed environment. I certainly can't see it on my dual display desktop, and when I get around to it... it will have 3 displays. Metro only? That would be a significant decrease in productivity. Plus the hundreds of thousands of apps that are out there, written specifically for a windowed environment would cease to exist.

So, no just no. That wouldn't make sense and would be pretty dumb for the desktop.

I cannot stand the idea of the Desktop mode continuing to exist and I would like the Metro experience to fully replace it at some point, with Microsoft figuring out a decent way to include more complex apps like Visual Studio and Photoshop. So because I dislike the Desktop mode and that way of multitasking, I'm willing to give the Windows 8 Metro experience a decent go to confirm whether any productivity is actually lost. I don't expect it to be lost, due to how easy and quick changing apps/windows is and due to the other great features of the Metro experience.

[King Lizzle]

Wanted to try and give Win 8 a real try as my main OS but unfortunately it won't install or boot if a Marvell SATAIII controller is enabled. Installing the latest drivers for the controller within Win 8 also makes no difference. Apparently it wasn't an issue in the Developer Preview build so don't know what has changed since then. Shame really as despite my serious misgivings about it as a desktop OS I was willing to give it a chance.

[dafin0]

Wanted to try and give Win 8 a real try as my main OS but unfortunately it won't install or boot if a Marvell SATAIII controller is enabled. Installing the latest drivers for the controller within Win 8 also makes no difference. Apparently it wasn't an issue in the Developer Preview build so don't know what has changed since then. Shame really as despite my serious misgivings about it as a desktop OS I was willing to give it a chance.

maybe try the 32Bit version? might be worth a shot

[trek]

Running the CP for several days now. It would be great if the Start Screen did not exist or could be switched off.

[dafin0]

Running the CP for several days now. It would be great if the Start Screen did not exist or could be switched off.

i think its fine but for people like you who dont like it i think being able to load to desktop by default should be an option. that way you can easily go back the start screen if you need to.

as for a lack of start menu, i dont see what the fuss is about.. just use the search widget and you basically have the start menu but with one less click (dont have to hit "all programs")

thats just my two cents, i try not to be bias and view things from other peoples angles

[Calum Veteran]

I can genuinely say, that Windows, without windows is not an OS I'm willing to use. If they were to completely ditch the desktop, well that's why I jumped ship with Ubuntu and ditched out to XFCE.

I'm willing to try the interaction model they have right now, as its interesting and I can see where they're going. But, to eliminate the desktop completely? In development environments, system administration and elsewhere there is no way that I can function without a windowed environment. I certainly can't see it on my dual display desktop, and when I get around to it... it will have 3 displays. Metro only? That would be a significant decrease in productivity. Plus the hundreds of thousands of apps that are out there, written specifically for a windowed environment would cease to exist.

So, no just no. That wouldn't make sense and would be pretty dumb for the desktop.

It might not make sense due to the apps that currently exist and have been written to work well with that kind of environment, but it is important to mention that there will come a day when those apps will no longer work; there will likely be a significant change that breaks those apps at some point. It may not make sense for the Metro experience to be that change and that is why Microsoft have included the Desktop mode. What I mean, really, is that I'd like there to be no need for me to go into the Desktop mode. I'd like to be able to develop and design apps while in the Metro experience (obviously not Windows Forms apps, Java apps, or anything like that; just Metro apps and websites would be fine), among other things, and I'd like to never have to visit the Desktop experience. I'd of course have no problem with Microsoft keeping the Desktop mode, but I'd rather never have to use it to achieve the tasks I'd like.

[Nimdock]

As you said Callum we will agree to disagree and I am a Computer Engineer and designer.

Let's see what happens.

[Dot Matrix]

Running the CP for several days now. It would be great if the Start Screen did not exist or could be switched off.

7 DAYS!? Seeing how the CP was only released on Wednesday.... Do you have a time machine or something you're not telling us about? In our universe, that's only 4 days. ;)

[remixedcat]

i think its fine but for people like you who dont like it i think being able to load to desktop by default should be an option. that way you can easily go back the start screen if you need to.

as for a lack of start menu, i dont see what the fuss is about.. just use the search widget and you basically have the start menu but with one less click (dont have to hit "all programs")

thats just my two cents, i try not to be bias and view things from other peoples angles

there's also rainmeter for that as well.....