Why do people constantly complain about Metro when it IS easier to use?

[Calum Veteran]

Some people like to believe they are more elite than other users, and even refer to themselves as "power users." Some of these people don't like it when things are made simpler and easy to use. I'm not entirely sure why, but maybe it's because they feel they no longer have that level of "elitism."

[MorganX]

Some people like to believe they are more elite than other users, and even refer to themselves as "power users." Some of these people don't like it when things are made simpler and easy to use. I'm not entirely sure why, but maybe it's because they feel they no longer have that level of "elitism."

I suppose you can look at it that way. I don't call myself a Power-User though I probably am. I've never taken it as that from anyone here. I've always felt they are indicating they take advantage of many features that common users may not even know exist. Not that many users change Start Menu settings to display top level folders as Menus instead of Links. I can guarantee anyone who thinks they can compute on a desktop in Metro-only and that is is more efficient than Windows 7 without Metro, more often than not would not be aware this setting exists.

I actually think anyone who could spend significant amounts of time being productive with Metro and full screen only apps does not need a PC and should stick with a tablet or smartphone. There are millions of people like that, just as Apple and Android whose tablets do quite well among this demographic.

[zhangm Supervisor]

I think people still haven't learned to take full advantage of search functionality - in most operating systems (OS X and Linux included). Real power users, of course, manage giant lists of shortcuts, and might organize them in folders. Only n00bs search for stuff, right?

[zman982]

Here's a question that I'm wondering and it's just to gauge the overall mindset in relation to Microsoft and their recent UI changes.

For the people that are now confortable using Metro, are you equally confortable using the ribbon as well?

Like I mentioned, I only want to gague the mindset since the ribbon had similar discussions when it was introduced.

[Wyn6]

I recall the first time I saw the ribbon. I think it was in the web version of word. I never used Office 2007. But, it threw me for a bit and I had to sift through it for a moment to get my bearings. But, now... it's just there. I don't mind it one way or the other. It works well, however. Once you actually understand why it's there, it is a bit faster than trying to remember where what is under which menu.

[Matthew_Thepc]

For the people that claim Windows 8 is easier to use, and especially the original poster who claims that it is "easier to use and understand than any previous Windows Interface" how would you actually explain the concept of settings to someone who's never used the system before. Just conceptually. As far as I can see, the user actually has to deal with four different categories of settings:

- Application specific settings for Desktop apps: Not entirely predictable how these can be accessed, but at least the same way as on W7 . So this shouldn't be entirely problematic for users of earlier versions of Windows

- Application specific settings for Metro apps, with the Desktop itself and the Start screen each counting as Metro applications: These are presented in a predictable way, yet the user needs to learn that a globally available "first-level" settings icon actually provides settings for the current app (which might be a problem on the Start screen especially, with the header only saying 'Start'), excluding apps on the Desktop, where instead the Desktop itself counts as an app.

- "More PC setting" (i.e. system-wide Metro settings): Can be reached using the same mechanism as Metro-app-specific settings

- Even more PC settings (i.e. 'Control Panel', which is also listed as an application specific setting for the Desktop, yet actually includes system-wide settings and not just settings for the desktop 'app'): It is not listed under the system-wide settings icon unless the Desktop is the currently active 'Metro app'.

I'd honestly appreciate it if someone gave a more concise yet comprehensive explanation of the different categories of settings in Windows 8. Or if someone could explain why this is altogether easier than Windows 7 (not to speak of OS X).

From a user's POV:

OK, so I want to change the default font size in Word. Oh look, I do it the exact same way I've been doing it for x years.

OK, so I want to change something about Windows 8 itself. I'm gonna launch the Settings app.

OK, I wanna change the settings in this Metro game, I'm gonna bring up the application-side-bar-thingy (Charms) and click "Settings"

Really, that's all most consumers ever need. They don't really need the full control panel, and the people that do can simply run -> "control"

my 2 cents

[MorganX]

Here's a question that I'm wondering and it's just to gauge the overall mindset in relation to Microsoft and their recent UI changes.

For the people that are now confortable using Metro, are you equally confortable using the ribbon as well?

Like I mentioned, I only want to gague the mindset since the ribbon had similar discussions when it was introduced.

You said comfortable with Metro which I am (I just don't like it on the desktop). I was actually not a fan of the Ribbon but it is actually, IMO, more efficient in a lot of areas. As a simple menu, no, but as a functional menu, yes. Especially with formatting elements in Word and Excel. The ability to hover and preview is quite effective. Some advance formatting is much more discoverable.

The only two areas in which regular menus are clearly more efficient IMO, printing and file operations. The File tab of all ribbons has a lot of info, probably too much, slows down the basic function too much but not necessarily disruptively so.

Edit: There was also no major retraining issue believe it or not. MS went to great lengths to create online tutorials and make it easy to find commands they were used to and this was accessible by numerous means. This was quite an impressive transition for them. I actually think tutorials won't help the Hybrid/UI nor are they needed. What's needed is for Metro to not be on the corporate desktop. If there's already a GPO setting for that, there's half the battle.

[zman982]

You said comfortable with Metro which I am (I just don't like it on the desktop). I was actually not a fan of the Ribbon but it is actually, IMO, more efficient in a lot of areas. As a simple menu, no, but as a functional menu, yes. Especially with formatting elements in Word and Excel. The ability to hover and preview is quite effective. Some advance formatting is much more discoverable.

The only two areas in which regular menus are clearly more efficient IMO, printing and file operations. The File tab of all ribbons has a lot of info, probably too much, slows down the basic function too much but not necessarily disruptively so.

I used comfortable exactly for the reason you responsed. I know there are some that may dislike either or both the ribbon and Metro but they are now at a point where they can still perform most tasks hassle free. It's more to see whether users are adapting their usage behavior to the new UI.

[zhangm Supervisor]

Here's a question that I'm wondering and it's just to gauge the overall mindset in relation to Microsoft and their recent UI changes.

For the people that are now confortable using Metro, are you equally confortable using the ribbon as well?

Like I mentioned, I only want to gague the mindset since the ribbon had similar discussions when it was introduced.

I picked up the ribbon pretty quickly, and I prefer it to the older menus in the Office suite. I haven't used the ribbon in the new Explorer UI - mostly because the vast majority of my file operations are done with keyboard shortcuts or drag and drop actions.

[MorganX]

I used comfortable exactly for the reason you responsed. I know there are some that may dislike either or both the ribbon and Metro but they are now at a point where they can still perform most tasks hassle free. It's more to see whether users are adapting their usage behavior to the new UI.

Have to give MS a big win on that. Not only do I, but many novices attempt much more advanced formatting, in Office, than any of us would have. For me, the discoverability of these features is way up. I don't have a lot of time (except multitasking with Neowin as of late) and the Ribbon save a whole lot of that. With the Ribbon Hover Preview, I rarely have to undo anything except grammatical stuff.

[Gerowen]

Because like most Microsoft products, we've spent the past couple years teaching people who are not geeks how to use a computer to perform their daily tasks, and now the way they interact with the computer is totally changing. The grandmas and parents of today don't know what "Jump lists" or "Metro" are, nor do they care. All they know is that the thing they spent so much time learning how to use is about to change, again.

That is why I am against drastic changes like this.

[De.Bug]

Yea its easier to use if you're 4

People don't want easy, they want productive

If you mean people in general you're wrong, people want to be able to use their computers easily. If you mean people who use computers regularly and know their way around them then you are right, they want productivity.

Because I can't go Start -> Shutdown.

WTF.

Use Windows Key + I then click shutdown perhaps or even move your mouse to the bottom right corner and drag up to get the charm bar and shutdown. It's different, not any harder or less efficient.

Because like most Microsoft products, we've spent the past couple years teaching people who are not geeks how to use a computer to perform their daily tasks, and now the way they interact with the computer is totally changing. The grandmas and parents of today don't know what "Jump lists" or "Metro" are, nor do they care. All they know is that the thing they spent so much time learning how to use is about to change, again.

That is why I am against drastic changes like this.

I'm not sure if you've worked much with Windows 8, but I haven't found much of anything that I couldn't grasp how to use instantly. I think almost anyone could use Windows 8.

Some people like to believe they are more elite than other users, and even refer to themselves as "power users." Some of these people don't like it when things are made simpler and easy to use. I'm not entirely sure why, but maybe it's because they feel they no longer have that level of "elitism."

Agreed.

[Detection]

If you mean people in general you're wrong, people want to be able to use their computers easily. If you mean people who use computers regularly and know their way around them then you are right, they want productivity.

People in general do want productivity, they wouldn't have bought a computer otherwise. This UI has never been on a PC before so yes, people in general want productivity not easy.

But picking at the word "easy" what it so difficult about Windows UI as it is today ?

Nothing.

[MorganX]

While Windows 7 destroyed the Mac Guy vs. PC Guy marketing campaign, I can see Metro on the Desktop reviving it, with PC guy on the losing end this time.

[9UnknownMen]

Some people like to believe they are more elite than other users, and even refer to themselves as "power users." Some of these people don't like it when things are made simpler and easy to use. I'm not entirely sure why, but maybe it's because they feel they no longer have that level of "elitism."

This is oh so precious coming from a tart who actually said that the affluent need "airplane mode' on their desktops in their private Gulfstreams. I still can't get enough of that.

Never mind....please continue. It gets quite entertaining hearing from vapid farts like you on these forums.

[KnightWolf]

not going to bash it, I just don't find it as comfortable with the mouse and keyboard... I feel it would be better with tech such as kinect and surface, just my opinion

[farmeunit]

Yes, switching back and forth is annoying and inconsistent, but the problem is with the switching not with Metro. Metro by itself is easier to use than legacy by itself.

How do I open two apps at once in Metro and have them side by side? Or two instances of the same app?

[rajputwarrior]

Because like most Microsoft products, we've spent the past couple years teaching people who are not geeks how to use a computer to perform their daily tasks, and now the way they interact with the computer is totally changing. The grandmas and parents of today don't know what "Jump lists" or "Metro" are, nor do they care. All they know is that the thing they spent so much time learning how to use is about to change, again.

That is why I am against drastic changes like this.

And that's why this is going to be a flop in enterprise environment. No it team in the the world is gonna wanna teach hundreds/thousands of people a new ui/os. We are busy enough as is.

[Wyn6]

How do I open two apps at once in Metro and have them side by side? Or two instances of the same app?

You cannot open two instances of the same app. However, to open two apps side by side, open one, then go to the preview pane on the left, find the apps you want, grab it and pull it out slightly to the right. Wait for the snap border to appear and drop it.

[farmeunit]

You cannot open two instances of the same app. However, to open two apps side by side, open one, then go to the preview pane on the left, find the apps you want, grab it and pull it out slightly to the right. Wait for the snap border to appear and drop it.

Thanks for that. I found one way to do it, but that will be useful. Sucks about not having two instances of the same app, though. I use that quite a bit.

[MorganX]

You cannot open two instances of the same app. However, to open two apps side by side, open one, then go to the preview pane on the left, find the apps you want, grab it and pull it out slightly to the right. Wait for the snap border to appear and drop it.

That actually works pretty well although I think the previous app bar looks cheap. Charm bar nice. I hope RTM makes the previous app bar less sensitive and just look better somehow, the start thumbnail looks cheap and slapped on too.

If MS believes beginners only need 2 windows, fine, I'm not sure why they force a 2 app limit. Free those who need more.

[Calum Veteran]

This is oh so precious coming from a tart who actually said that the affluent need "airplane mode' on their desktops in their private Gulfstreams. I still can't get enough of that.

Never mind....please continue. It gets quite entertaining hearing from vapid farts like you on these forums.

I didn't say that about airplane mode. You should go back and actually read my posts, or learn to read (as it's clear you may not be able to), instead of making things up (hint: I haven't ever said they need it. Someone asked why Microsoft would include it for desktop users, and so I reasonably suggested a rare example of its use) and trying to insult me. Good one on the insult, though, you classy, classy man (Y)

[migo]

Metro is only "easy" if you haven't been using a mouse and Windows for the past decade and a half.

Not necessarily. I find it quite easy and have been using a mouse for longer than that.

[cork1958]

People constantly complain about it because most people aren't happy if they aren't b****ing about something!!

[Growled Member]

not going to bash it, I just don't find it as comfortable with the mouse and keyboard... I feel it would be better with tech such as kinect and surface, just my opinion

My thoughts as well. It will be a great tablet OS.