How would you fix Metro on the desktop? My list:

[MFH]

Allow me to quote myself, "Granted, we still open a door and put food inside to be cooled." If you will dissect that sentence, you will see that I admit the basic interaction didn't change.

Yet at the same time you claimed how refrigerators have evolved the last decades?

Until we no longer need to store food, and/or replicators are invented

So I was right, hell stop watching Star Trek?

The point isn't moot. It was an example which points out how fast computing power has evolved yet the way we interact with the computer has not evolved as fast. Hence, we are still using mice.

So you did touch the screen of your mobile 15 years ago, I highly doubt that?

Interaction has evolved (as in evolution, not revolution), you just fail to notice it?

They have cordless mice these days, ya know?

I know, using one at the moment (it's event multitouch?). So let me tell YOU something: Know what happens if you use a whole lot of cordless technology? Wanna know? It's called interference, you may look it up if you've never heard of it before? As long as you can't break the laws of Physics this will always be a problem that will lead to the reliance on cables (which are actually more efficient anyways [just look up how wireless LAN works and you'll see why cables are better?]).

No, really. Guess.

My guess: People will sooner or later (hopefully sooner) realize that touch is not a precise input method and that UIs like Windows 8's Metro is not meant to be used in a productive environment?

Let me save you some time in pointing out the technicality that a keyboard is usually part of a desktop.

It is? You may tell my notebook that it's a desktop than?

But, I specifically did not mention keyboards

Yep, you did: Do you believe in the year 2112 we will still be using a mouse-driven or keyboard input method?

That's the question, I answered. You now try to backtrack, that ain't gonna work here?

[+Ryster Subscriber²]

See replies inline in red...

Metro is broken on the desktop. Here's how I would fix it:

1. Put a search box in the top right hand corner by the user's avatar.

Am indifferent to this one. Don't really see the point since search is enabled by default anyway, just start typing. Why add a UI element that redundant?

2. Include "shut down" and "restart" options in the menu that pops up in the top right corner when you click on the username.

I agree that they need to expose the shutdown options. Burying them inside a "Settings" menu is just bizarre.

3. Give every Metro application a big X in the top right hand corner so that Metro applications can be closed more easily.

I've told you about this in your other topic (assuming you've only posted two?). Metro apps are not supposed to be closed. This just demonstrates a lack of understanding on your part, which as I mentioned before is not necessarily your fault, but as a consequence of a lack of documentation (to be expected during early beta) and/or Microsoft not explaining itself sufficiently (again somewhat normal at this stage. Metro apps automatically suspend and use next to no resources when they're not in the foreground. Besides, if you REALLY must close them, it's not hard once you learn how (as with everything else in Metro).

4. Make it easier to access both the Charm bar and the application switching bar for better multitasking and such.

I agree they could perhaps make the whole right side (for charms) and left side (for task switcher) of the screen bring them up rather than just the corners as they are now, but again they are not hard once you know how. In addition there are handy key shortcut keys for "power users" and those that like to learn quicker ways of doing things.

5. Have the tiles be arranged in such a fashion so that the user scrolls up and down, not left to right.

Fundamentally disagree with this one. The whole metro design language on full size monitors (i.e. not on small phone screens) is left to right, not and up and down. Unless they dump metro entirely, the left to right scrolling isn't going anywhere. On the subject of scrolling though, I think they should add "grab and drag" to the mouse interaction to simulate pushing the UI left and right with the finger. This would compliment the scrollwheel and scrollbar.

6. Create defined boundaries between groups of tiles. Every group of tiles should be a page, not a continuous flowing piece that keeps going when you scroll right.

Why? Tiles are already groups together, and I can quickly and easily jump from one end to the other if needs be. I don't want to have be going into one page, then out again, then into another. Besides having everything on different pages would make the whole "at a glance" concept of live tiles useless.

7. For Metro IE10, put the address bar at the top, not the bottom.

I guess this is personal choice... after consideration I think I agree with you, and put the page previews (tabs) at the bottom.

8. Make sure that desktop Metro apps still have menus when big productivity apps (like Adobe Premiere, Microsoft Visual Studio) get ported.

There's no such thing as a Desktop Metro App. There are some Desktop apps that have some metro elements in them, but this has absolutely nothing to do with Windows 8 or it's Metro interface and is entirely up to that app's developer, so why even mention it?

9. For the sake of consistency, port over every Windows application over to Metro. That includes the Control Panel, Explorer, etc.

While the metro version of control panel could do with a few more options, and have a link to the full control panel, I disagree with porting everything over to Metro in it's entirety. Metro already has all the interface elements the average user needs to access files on their PC. I'm sure more Metro apps will be developed that can be optionally downloaded if you need more advanced control of your system settings or file system.

[Wyn6]

Refrigerator was probably a poor reference. However, compared to the microwave that thing is a flying car to an Edsol.

I WILL NOT stop watching Star Trek. Great show(s). I wasn't that big on Voyager though. Something never sat well with me. The later seasons of Enterprise were terrible too. They had new writers every season and they and the producers kept taking the show in different directions.

Not sure what you mean about touching the mobile screen 15 years ago as in 1997 touchscreen mobiles weren't widely available, if at all.

The issues of interference for wireless tech is being overcome. There are over a billion cell phones which use wireless tech everyday. So, I don't see wireless interference being an issue for too long.

Actually, sooner or later, new software will be developed that takes advantage greater advantage of touch, voice, and so on.

I'm gonna have to start underlining and bolding words for ya. I quote, "Let me save you some time in pointing out the technicality that a keyboard is usually part of a desktop. But, that statement wasn't implying that a keyboard wasn't part of anything else which you somehow managed to take away from it. I mean, typewriters have keyboards too. No mouse though.

You snipped my statement. I talked about what my initial comment was not any secondary or tertiary rebuttals. As I said before I initially mentioned desktop, mice, and cords. So, no backtracking.

The 2112 statement still applies and does not imply that I hate keyboards. It's just I don't think we'll be using keyboards in 100 years. That's not too hard to follow, is it?

Your turn.

[abysal]

nice idea and would work if it wasnt for every PC will be shipped with W8 COAs/OEM and as a result the "figures" will show it as a success for the majority (sadly us private builders and power users are the minority)

Actually it will work the same way when people revolted against Vista, especially businesses. You be able to purchase your new Windows 8 PC with a Windows 7 roll back license or what ever it was called before (such vista PC with XP Roll back). I see the same possibly happening with Windows 8.

[singularity87]

The biggest annoyances I've found so far are as follows:

1. I find Metro apps extremely hard to differentiate when I bring up the task switcher in the left-hand hot corner - they all look the same to me when scaled down. Also the motion of pushing into the corner then maneuvering out again feels uncomfortable

2. I wish the desktop UI wasn't so ugly and poorly integrated with Metro. And without the pre-8 start button in the lower left-hand corner it would make sense to make the taskbar look less like Windows 7's, then this change would be less disconcerting

Both of these things are ones I hope are simply a result of lack of polish and will change before final release.

Metro is actually a pretty good representation of how I tend to use Windows 7 at the moment when I analyse it - I have Chrome open full screen and my various web-based apps such as Gmail and Jolicloud pinned to the Apps screen, then use the taskbar for local stuff. It still needs a lot of work now - I'd say about twice as much needs to evolve between CP and RTM as has changed between Developer Preview and now. It looks like Windows is finally getting decent built-in mail and calendar clients at least!!

[+Ryster Subscriber²]

The biggest annoyances I've found so far are as follows:

1. I find Metro apps extremely hard to differentiate when I bring up the task switcher in the left-hand hot corner - they all look the same to me when scaled down. Also the motion of pushing into the corner then maneuvering out again feels uncomfortable

2. I wish the desktop UI wasn't so ugly and poorly integrated with Metro. And without the pre-8 start button in the lower left-hand corner it would make sense to make the taskbar look less like Windows 7's, then this change would be less disconcerting

Both of these things are ones I hope are simply a result of lack of polish and will change before final release.

Metro is actually a pretty good representation of how I tend to use Windows 7 at the moment when I analyse it - I have Chrome open full screen and my various web-based apps such as Gmail and Jolicloud pinned to the Apps screen, then use the taskbar for local stuff. It still needs a lot of work now - I'd say about twice as much needs to evolve between CP and RTM as has changed between Developer Preview and now. It looks like Windows is finally getting decent built-in mail and calendar clients at least!!

I agree with 1. They need to improve the Metro task switching bar to make it easier to see apps, or bring back something similar to Aero Flip that gave you a stack of live previews of all your running apps.

In regards to 2, the desktop is supposed to be poorly integrated. Because it's not integrated. In function (not technically I know) it is merely a compatibility environment within metro to run apps designed prior to, or too complex to run in Metro.

[MFH]

I WILL NOT stop watching Star Trek. Great show(s).

Hell I don't even disagree, it's just that I think that they based none of the things in Star Trek [at least in the "Next Generation"-era (which I'm currently watching)] on actual science?

The later seasons of Enterprise were terrible too. They had new writers every season and they and the producers kept taking the show in different directions.

I personally never had a problem with Enterprise, though that might be as I watched it as an interesting science fiction show? Wished they could have continued the show as the final episode was just pathetic!

Not sure what you mean about touching the mobile screen 15 years ago as in 1997 touchscreen mobiles weren't widely available, if at all.

So your interaction did change after all? (See what I did there?)

The issues of interference for wireless tech is being overcome. There are over a billion cell phones which use wireless tech everyday. So, I don't see wireless interference being an issue for too long.

Not true for local wireless technology as they all use the 2.4GHz network, which is even today "raped" on all fronts?

Actually, sooner or later, new software will be developed that takes advantage greater advantage of touch, voice, and so on.

Voice will never work in (crowed) work places. Just imagine having 6 people in one room talking with their PC, either you or the PC will get nuts. I'd place my bet on the first one?

But, that statement wasn't implying that a keyboard wasn't part of anything else which you somehow managed to take away from it.

But actually that's not true. Keyboards in one way or another are integrated in anything?

I mean, typewriters have keyboards too. No mouse though.

What would be the use of a mouse on a device that has no UI (even counting CLI as UI, as even DOS programs had support for mice)? Adding a mouse to a typewriter/terminal would be fun tough^^ (imagining dot matrix printer printing out the position of the cursor constantly?)

You snipped my statement. I talked about what my initial comment was not any secondary or tertiary rebuttals.

Do you believe in the year 2112 we will still be using a mouse-driven or keyboard input method?

No mention on desktops there?

The 2112 statement still applies and does not imply that I hate keyboards. It's just I don't think we'll be using keyboards in 100 years. That's not too hard to follow, is it?

So my original request still applies either: come up with an alternative to the keyboard?

[singularity87]

I can envision the keyboard being replaced by effectively a secondary touch screen monitor that lies flat, that can then dynamically reconfigure itself to suit the app that's in use (e.g. a panel of options for Photoshop, a keyboard in Word, a heads up display control panel in Crysis 4), with an area being reserved as appropriate for a touch pad for more precise input. The haptic feedback that was being mooted for the new iPad would come in handy here. The monitor as we have now would probably also support touch. This is actually a lot like Star Trek's LCARS, though hopefully a lot more usable.

A bit like this - http://www.handtec.co.uk/product.php/4130/acer-iconia-dual-screen-laptop?gclid=CN_Cut7P8a4CFUEMfAodq1meMA only hopefully better implemented. I tried one in a shop once and it wasn't good - though that was the usual scenario of an OS on designed for it (Windows 7) plus loads of third party utilities layered on the top to try and make it work.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

I feel like you guys are missing the point a bit. It now seems you're discussing something like this?

? yet there's still a desktop and windows there. This seems much more like an evolution of the desktop than of a fullscreen Metro app. How is 'Metro' steering us in the right direction ?!

[Dot Matrix]

You said "We can only hope the old school desktop dies that quickly". But I don't see why we would hope for that, unless a superior solution for all use cases already exists. And it doesn't. The desktop, keyboard and mouse will each die when they're not needed anymore, and we're not there yet. I'm fully aware though that a lot of people can already get by just fine with an iPad.

Who's to say what's superior? You may prefer keyboard and mouse.... But this isn't 1995 anymore. When Windows 95 came about keyboard and mouse reigned supreme. Not we have Kb&M, Voice, Kinect, controllers, remotes, and touch. It's time for a new paradigm of computing that can support all these input methods as equally as the old could support the keyboard and mouse.

[singularity87]

My guess is that Metro is going to introduce some concepts that stick, and a lot of others that don't, the most significant ones being that the desktop metaphor will become more task/app-centric. (like on my iPhone I think Facebook, not web browser, facebook.com - and I get updates pushed to me - in Metro that is upfront on my Start screen straight off, as opposed to logging into my Windows 7 desktop then having to open the app).

I would guess that Metro will fail to totally displace the desktop paradigm however, since it is too inflexible for swapping between different tasks, so we'll probably see the emergence of something else that combines elements of both Metro and the desktop come Windows 9 (if not further into the development of Windows 8, though I fear they're too locked into it now). I actually suspect Windows 8 if released much as it is now may be Microsoft's "New Coke" moment. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_coke)

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Who's to say what's superior?

I said "I don't see why we would hope for [the desktop UI paradigm to die], unless a superior solution for all use cases already exists." Not even Microsoft sees Metro as superior compared to the desktop UI paradigm for complex apps. And the desktop UI paradigm (currently) kind of goes hand in hand with (something like) a mouse and a keyboard.

Here, this is what originally got me to make a comment:

You know what's even more scary than Windows 8 with the ugly Metro piece of crap? Windows 9. Microsoft's plan is to remove completely the "desktop" environment.

We can only hope the old school desktop dies that quickly. Here's to the 21st Century and moving computing into the next generation.

[XX55XX]

Who's to say what's superior? You may prefer keyboard and mouse.... But this isn't 1995 anymore. When Windows 95 came about keyboard and mouse reigned supreme. Not we have Kb&M, Voice, Kinect, controllers, remotes, and touch. It's time for a new paradigm of computing that can support all these input methods as equally as the old could support the keyboard and mouse.

What do you propose replacing those peripherals with? Kinect? Touch for tablets is a natural progression, but I fail to see mouse and keyboard going away entirely for the desktop. Unless, until we start connecting computers with the synapses of our brains and control our computers on thought alone. That would be a truly logical progression, at least, on the desktop.

What's so bad with the mouse and keyboard? You have raised this point many times, but have refused to explain yourself. Yes, there will be a new paradigm for controlling computers in the future, but that future hasn't arrived yet outside of several half-baked ideas.

[JaredFrost]

Who's to say what's superior? You may prefer keyboard and mouse.... But this isn't 1995 anymore. When Windows 95 came about keyboard and mouse reigned supreme. Not we have Kb&M, Voice, Kinect, controllers, remotes, and touch. It's time for a new paradigm of computing that can support all these input methods as equally as the old could support the keyboard and mouse.

Sounds like a great idea.....in theory, but some of those inputs just aren't compatible, and adding them would drag the precision of the other devices down to it's level

In my opinion the only thing that could actually replace a keyboard and mouse in precision would be thought based input.

The best way to incorperate these other inputs would be to have separate interfaces for them, the less precise inputs could share elements in common, hell they all could, but to forcibly limit

people in a completely different market is not the right way to do it, no matter how much you want to shoehorn your way into the mobile market

But you're right, this isn't 1995, this is 2012, and the keyboard and mouse STILL reign supreme, even after Windows 8 and 8 EE, these devices aren't going anywhere soon, no matter

how much you or others wish they were in Star Trek right now, face it, you were born in a horrible time, war, poverty, and the keyboard and mouse.

[Dot Matrix]

What do you propose replacing those peripherals with? Kinect? Touch for tablets is a natural progression, but I fail to see mouse and keyboard going away entirely for the desktop. Unless, until we start connecting computers with the synapses of our brains and control our computers on thought alone. That would be a truly logical progression, at least, on the desktop.

What's so bad with the mouse and keyboard? You have raised this point many times, but have refused to explain yourself. Yes, there will be a new paradigm for controlling computers in the future, but that future hasn't arrived yet outside of several half-baked ideas.

I foresee more keyboard interaction mixed in with voice, touch, and motion sensing technology (a la LCARS). The mouse was invented for the need of presicion. But We don't need that presicion anymore. The mouse is a leftover relic from computing's past.

If I had a touchscreen monitor, I wouldn't even be using my mouse anymore except to game, as I only use it to place the cursor on the screen. I let my keyboard do the rest. Using touch with Windows 7 isn't bad, but it isn't great either. Metro is fixing that.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

The mouse was invented for the need of presicion. But We don't need that presicion anymore.

You should really start speaking for yourself (only)...

[XX55XX]

I foresee more keyboard interaction mixed in with voice, touch, and motion sensing technology (a la LCARS). The mouse was invented for the need of presicion. But We don't need that presicion anymore. The mouse is a leftover relic from computing's past.

If I had a touchscreen monitor, I wouldn't even be using my mouse anymore except to game, as I only use it to place the cursor on the screen. I let my keyboard do the rest. Using touch with Windows 7 isn't bad, but it isn't great either. Metro is fixing that.

That level of interaction would require placing monitors at a certain angle where our arms would not become fatigued from reaching up at the screen all of the time. Plus, it would be much closer to our noses.

Outside of tablets, I don't see touch working very well on a desktop, not even with Metro. With tablets, your hands are in a far more comfortable position than say, one of the those touch PCs that manufacturers keep pushing. I've tried them. They are not comfortable after a while.

How is touch superior on the desktop?

[Dot Matrix]

That level of interaction would require placing monitors at a certain angle where our arms would not become fatigued from reaching up at the screen all of the time. Plus, it would be much closer to our noses.

Outside of tablets, I don't see touch working very well on a desktop, not even with Metro. With tablets, your hands are in a far more comfortable position than say, one of the those touch PCs that manufacturers keep pushing. I've tried them. They are not comfortable after a while.

How is touch superior on the desktop?

You really didn't read what I said, all you saw was "touch"... Go back and read it again. Also, I have yet to get fatigued from using a touch screen desktop when I had one at my last job. My friend has yet to get fatigued using the iPad with a dock... Just saying. Our arms are capable of doing more than just laying on the desk.

You should really start speaking for yourself (only)...

What parts of the GUI require precision that can't be translated into touch, keyboard, or motion sense manipulation?

[Growled Member]

I foresee more keyboard interaction mixed in with voice, touch, and motion sensing technology (a la LCARS). The mouse was invented for the need of presicion. But We don't need that presicion anymore. The mouse is a leftover relic from computing's past.

For you. For many of us it is still the present and near future. That's not going to change no matter how hard they try to get it to change. Remember, almost half of Windows users are on XP for a very good reason. It works for them.

[Dot Matrix]

For you. For many of us it is still the present and near future. That's not going to change no matter how hard they try to get it to change. Remember, almost half of Windows Chinese users are on XP for a very good reason. It works for them.

Fixed that. :)

[subcld]

well most of complains from users were on those three categories shutdown/restart - start button - windows size / full screen so my suggestion :

1- start button on desktop to take you to metro app screen

2- shutdown & restart on username menu

3- option to make metro apps window sized or full screen

[zeke009]

I'd remove it.

For convential Desktop and Laptops, I'd have to agree. I shiver at the thought of training the simplest of users on Windows 7, throw in Windows 8 and I quit. It's great on a tablet, I'm actually anxious to have tablets at work in a state that supports current Enterprise policies and shares applications as the desktop/laptop space.

Here, on this forum, I think we're all very high when it comes to tech savvy and can navigate just about any interface. There is a population outside of this forum that is too scared to click and learn or give it 10 minutes. They don't want change and they will skewer you if the change you're bringing is drastic. Forcing Metro in the work place will be very hard for MS. They are better off trying to phase it in gently.

I like Win8 and I know I'll use it on my tablet and I think I'll get it for my home PC. But that's me and that's me at home. At work...

[Dot Matrix]

I don't know if there really is a way to "phase it in slowly". But Microsoft can't be afraid to act becasue a few people are going to panic.

[Subhadip]

I usually use Alt-Tab a lot and switching between Metro and Classic apps is no problem at all. It is all there, it does not discriminate. Which makes me think Microsoft is slowly working to integrate Metro and Desktop closely. They could probably only get the Alt-tab done by CP time. Hopefully there will be more by RC. Personally, if they just replaced the task switcher with a redesigned taskbar, that's about all that is required. Auto-hidden by default on the left side means it's not using up any space. And of course, like Alt-tab, do not discriminate between Metro and Desktop apps. The start screen then becomes the new 'desktop' where you can pin your icons/files/apps as usual. That seems like a perfect fusion, best-of-all-worlds scenario to me.

Given how rough and crude the current task switcher is, this is probably exactly what Microsoft is planning to do come RC/RTM time.

[encarta]

I foresee more keyboard interaction mixed in with voice, touch, and motion sensing technology (a la LCARS). The mouse was invented for the need of presicion. 1. But We don't need that presicion anymore. 2. The mouse is a leftover relic from computing's past.

If I had a touchscreen monitor, I wouldn't even be using my mouse anymore except to game, as I only use it to place the cursor on the screen. I let my keyboard do the rest. Using touch with Windows 7 isn't bad, but it isn't great either. Metro is fixing that.

1. Your ego is proud of you.

2. Say what? And the keyboard is not? QWERTY is 134 years old, FFS.