[Opinion]To all of you Metro Lovers

[MorganX]

@ Brando

You make sensible arguments. I see you are fluent in OS X and Win 7. I may just give CP a go on my primary desktop. Laptop, VM, and Tablet have not gone well and I dread going hot corners on a 24, soon to be 27" monitors, but maybe.

The problem is, I search a lot and will have to be on the desktop for multiple browser windows in portrait, along with 2 apps plus outlook and many notification tray icons. The back and forth to the start menu and charm/prev app bars vs. taskbar is going to drive me nuts. But I might just take a system image and go for it.

[+Ryster Subscriber²]

Most apps that didn't work even in compatibility mode were blocked because of UAC. However, as you stated, UAC did blow, thus it was disabled, and viola all my programs worked again.

You're wrong there my friend. The issue you were having was with your apps, not UAC. Ye app developers of olde got into a lazy habit of coding their applications to write to system areas such as program files, windows, etc. UAC stopped that from happening which was a good thing for overall system stability. If your apps were written correctly to write to the correct areas (your profile, temp folders, etc) then UAC wouldn't have battered an eyelid. UAC in Vista only ever popped up when you tried to change a system-wide setting or write to a system area, nothing more nothing less. This is why I always turned it off while I was setting up my PC, installing the bulk of my apps. Then turned it back on again afterwards for the protection it offered, and I very rarely got a problem with it.

[Darrian]

You're wrong there my friend. The issue you were having was with your apps, not UAC. Ye app developers of olde got into a lazy habit of coding their applications to write to system areas such as program files, windows, etc. UAC stopped that from happening which was a good thing for overall system stability. If your apps were written correctly to write to the correct areas (your profile, temp folders, etc) then UAC wouldn't have battered an eyelid. UAC in Vista only ever popped up when you tried to change a system-wide setting or write to a system area, nothing more nothing less. This is why I always turned it off while I was setting up my PC, installing the bulk of my apps. Then turned it back on again afterwards for the protection it offered, and I very rarely got a problem with it.

Um, you kind of just reworded what I said in a lengthy manner. I'm sure the developers didn't feel like they were being lazy; back then that was just "the way." Then Microsoft went and protected those folders with UAC and ****ed them all off. I could have done the same thing, renabling it after I got everything set up, but I didn't for two reasons. First, I uninstall and reinstall apps frequently enough that having to disable it and reneable it would just have been one more annoying step in the process. Second, I'm not a retard and actually pay attention to what I'm installing and where it's coming from, so I don't get a bunch of viruses, spware or adware ****ing up my computer. The debate is no longer relevant as most developers have shifted to Microsoft's "new" way of doing things, which is as you said, putting that stuff in the profile folder. But back then it was a big issue. Whether it was the fault of UAC or the developers is really just a matter of perspective; the devs were not necessarily "wrong" and MS changed the game with UAC. How MS truly intended apps to be installed prior to Vista really isn't as relevant as how the majority were doing so. It wasn't until Vista that there was any kind of mechanism in place to enforce it.

[farmeunit]

Very few? Touch is all around you.... POS terminals, ATM Machines, Tablets, Kiosks, etc....

How many home computers? Also, the majority of those devices won't be running Windows, except for tablets.

[Davo]

As someone who has stuck with XP through Vista/7, I really like the Metro style. I just wish the operating system was *all* Metro since it becomes annoying to switch back and forth between the two styles.

You wanna talk about pointless improvements? Vista/7 was a more solid XP with everything shuffled around for the fun of it. THAT really bothered me. There was no rhyme or reason for longstanding legacy menus to be renamed/reorganized, yet still operate exactly the same. Display properties is probably one of the biggest examples of this.

I welcome anything that replaces what the start menu became in Vista/7. In XP and prior, I could have a slim start menu with super customization. In Vista/7, I'm now left with a beast of a menu that is 80% empty space because I only use it to quickly access Run, Shut Down, and Control Panel.

[theyarecomingforyou]

How many home computers? Also, the majority of those devices won't be running Windows, except for tablets.

Actually, you'll find that they do. I've seen plenty of ATMs display the BSOD and all the POS terminals at places like Subway run on Windows (albeit XP). But yeah, very few home computers have touchscreen displays but that will quickly change once Windows 8 is actually released.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Double post.

[Dot Matrix]

How many home computers? Also, the majority of those devices won't be running Windows, except for tablets.

It's coming. With Windows 8, I'm sure we'll see many touch computers.

[MorganX]

It's coming. With Windows 8, I'm sure we'll see many touch computers.

I agree. But they will not be the same powerhouses as today's computers. Somewhere between a tablet and an ThinPC. Probably all in one. A tablet on steroids in the Kitchen, Den, running much lighter weight metro apps (which I would prefer to think of as applets). The Metro Mail app is an applet, not a mail applicaiton, at least not at this point.

[Dot Matrix]

I agree. But they will not be the same powerhouses as today's computers. Somewhere between a tablet and an ThinPC. Probably all in one. A tablet on steroids in the Kitchen, Den, running much lighter weight metro apps (which I would prefer to think of as applets). The Metro Mail app is an applet, not a mail applicaiton, at least not at this point.

Who says they can't be powerhouses? We can cram some pretty powerful processors into tight spots. Who knows what kind of hardware Windows 8 opens us up to, but one thing is certain, we'll see some pretty wild PC designs.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Who says they can't be powerhouses? We can cram some pretty powerful processors into tight spots. Who knows what kind of hardware Windows 8 opens us up to, but one thing is certain, we'll see some pretty wild PC designs.

very true, a tablet (i forget what it was called or who made it atm) was shown at CES this year that had a top end i7 and a top end AMD graphics card, it was running some pre-beta build of windows 8, it had a controller mounted to the sides and was running skyrim at the highest quality with no lag

so yeah, i don't think we'll see much loss in power

[MorganX]

Who says they can't be powerhouses? We can cram some pretty powerful processors into tight spots. Who knows what kind of hardware Windows 8 opens us up to, but one thing is certain, we'll see some pretty wild PC designs.

Not that they can't be, I dont' think they will be. It's a business of razor thin profits, it would serve no purpose on consumer touch devices built to proliferate with users whose needs can be met with a touch only device and would make no business sense. There will be limitations to how much power you can get into the space of a tablet at this time as well.

I don't think Windows 8 will change hardware design that much, hardware advances will. Cheap dense SSDs, denser memory, and cooler faster CPU/GPUs. Again, for the purposes of the current target Metro market, it will be unnecessary and unprofitable for the next couple years.

People who want a Core i7 and top of the line GPU performance with a ton of ram and fast ssd are most likely going to want a mouse/keybaord and control that Metro will not offer for some time.

[MorganX]

8 on my desktop did not go well. I chose an in place upgrade. A lot didn't work, couldn't download 8 preview drivers for ATI, and issue with IE. Desktop IE had funky issues, Metro worked but wouldn't download. Bluetooth loaded but quit to start whenever I tried to add a device. USB 3.0 with TI Chip was funky. MIght fair better with clean install but not worth it at this time.

Boot to Windows Repair, load USB 3.0 drivers and restore worked flawlessly though.

What I will say is what did work was pretty zipply but my system is no slouch either. Performance is there though in desktop and Metro.

[redfish]

Virginia is for Metro Lovers

[Danielle1989]

To Digitalfox:

Hi,

Look, I think it's time for you Digitalfox to realize you need to get a girlfriend. Life is full of wonderful things and its much better to enjoy them then cry on the Neowin forum over some pointless Start screen.

[Coi]

I don't disagree with you, but I guess we should just wait and see. Immersive UI will either be a succes or not, and Microsoft will learn from it anyway. Not much will change when we keep discussing about wether they should give us a choice or not, so we should just stay calm and don't go insult people because of their preference / opinion (like the post above...).

[Digitalfox]

To Digitalfox:

Hi,

Look, I think it's time for you Digitalfox to realize you need to get a girlfriend. Life is full of wonderful things and its much better to enjoy them then cry on the Neowin forum over some pointless Start screen.

LOL

Another Metro Fish I just caught??? :)

But answering your post, I do have a girlfriend, and beautiful one for all it matters, and it's a relation where we live together and have sex every single day...

But I do need to rest or I would die of exhaustion, so I come here using that rest time and post what you think is nonsense from me...

Anyway, I want to thank every one of you who contributed to this topic, for the respect you showed for the others opinions and avoiding the fate of others (topics) were people insult each other. Thank you :)

[Danielle1989]

LOL

Another Metro Fish I just caught??? :)

But answering your post, I do have a girlfriend, and beautiful one for all it matters, and it's a relation where we live together and have sex every single day...

But I do need to rest or I would die of exhaustion, so I come here using that rest time and post what you think is nonsense from me...

Anyway, I want to thank every one of you who contributed to this topic, for the respect you showed for the others opinions and avoiding the fate of others (topics) were people insult each other. Thank you :)

Oh, ok then. :)

[Digitalfox]

Just one last entry on this topic before it enters in the "forgotten ones".

Just because I don't want to use Metro on this incarnation (v1, or 1.0, whatever you wanna called it) doesn't mean I won't on a next version where I feel it's improved to the point It does help me have work done.

Nor does it mean I won't recommend Windows 8 to others because of Metro. I will, but only if find them to be normal (average) users, like my mother or father.

There's a tendency to believe that when someone screams "no metro" it will automatically mean, you hate it and will do anything to make other's not using it.

Well that's not my view. Nor do I agree it's the right view.

Just give me and everybody that want's, the possibility of enjoying Windows 8 with Metro semi-disabled or even completely disabled. That's it. A choice..

Thanks to all of you participated on this topic...

[PGHammer]

What I have found people are very change adverse. Especially as people get older. I still think people don't get what metro is and what its future holds and where microsoft is going with metro. From your post I think your one of those people. There is going to be some challenges especially UI will give power users and even casual useres fits. Its much bigger change then going from OS X to iOS device. I think hardware for windows are to through changes and computing devices may not resemble what have today. Think of this as OS X 1.0. It was stinking pile **** for users ...As it developed it became good for users.

Yet here I am - fifty years old - and one of the longest histories of testing Windows on all of Neowin. Yet I find the lack of a visible Start button (and no traditional Start menu) a non-issue.

Why is it a non-issue?

Several reasons, actually - all my hardware works as it should (preview drivers for ATI GPUs like my HD5450 just fine, thank you very much), all my traditional applications work just fine (as do all my games - the fact that all the games work is the biggest surprise), and while the Metro applications have their individual issues, the applications don't bring the whole OS to its knees (like problematical applications or games even in Windows 7 could do).

And I'm running the Consumer Preview as sole OS on (egads!) a *traditional desktop* - complete with keyboard and mouse.

MetroTwit (the new Tweeter client designed by a few Neowinians) shows how the MDL is totally independent from WinRT, let alone Windows 8. (MetroTwit's only prerequisite is .NET Framework 4.0.)

It therefore proves that Metro (as both design language *and* design paradigm) is not just for simple apps - it can scale up just fine.

However, could a Metro version of the Windows 7 desktop be done without causing even more screaming?