[Opinion]To all of you Metro Lovers

[Digitalfox]

What I have found people are very change adverse. Especially as people get older. I still think people don't get what metro is and what its future holds and where microsoft is going with metro. From your post I think your one of those people. There is going to be some challenges especially UI will give power users and even casual useres fits. Its much bigger change then going from OS X to iOS device. I think hardware for windows are to through changes and computing devices may not resemble what have today. Think of this as OS X 1.0. It was stinking pile **** for users ...As it developed it became good for users.

I understand the argument of the AGE....

But please I'm 28, and I have moved from command lines to 3.11, then 95 until 7... I have no problem with changes.

But if those changes don't make me more productive, then I see no reason to use a new GUI.

[Dot Matrix]

then I see no reason to use a new GUI.

You have to look at where the market is going...

The market for desktops just isn't what it used to be, they're not going away, but they're not as prevalent as they once were. What is happening though, is that they're evolving alongside the mobile market, people are increasingly mobile.

It becomes cumbersome to continually develop two different things, so why not just combine the two? Develop the OS to fit both desktops and tablets, and give users the best of both worlds? Microsoft is both broadening their presence in the mobile market, while giving their desktop users the opportunity to cash in on it as well. This also opens up the market for transformers, which is where I think the computing market is headed.

I have moved from command lines to 3.11, then 95 until 7... I have no problem with changes.

Not everyone felt the same way, I was pretty young when this happened, but I have heard many stories from professors who were quite vocal about the change, saying the GUI slowed them down vs. the CLI. They were quite animate about the "dumbing down" of computers, as they called it.

[Melfster]

I understand the argument of the AGE....

But please I'm 28, and I have moved from command lines to 3.11, then 95 until 7... I have no problem with changes.

But if those changes don't make me more productive, then I see no reason to use a new GUI.

The truth is the change comparable to windows 8 is dos to windows 3.11. 3.11 to 7 are minor gui comparisons for the most part.

[migo]

FWIW, Vista and UAC (as implemented in Vista) basically went away due to customer rejection.

Metro will be great on tablets. It's actually superior to the desktop implementation. No hot corners, only charm bar w/thumb swipe. Really nice. Metro on the desktop will evolve or become optional by demand. I don't know that it needs to go away, being optional would be fine. I personally would like it to be a HUD superimposed over the desktp as opposed to removing the desktop. The App bar is horrendous though, as is the context sensitive menu at bottom of screen. Terrible UI design on desktop.

Wrong, UAC went away because Vista compatible programs didn't ask for permissions that brought up UAC.

[migo]

The truth is the change comparable to windows 8 is dos to windows 3.11. 3.11 to 7 are minor gui comparisons for the most part.

Not at all, the changes from 7 to 8 are minor, you can still do everything, and still in mostly the same way.

[MorganX]

What I have found people are very change adverse. Especially as people get older. I still think people don't get what metro is and what its future holds and where microsoft is going with metro. From your post I think your one of those people. There is going to be some challenges especially UI will give power users and even casual useres fits. Its much bigger change then going from OS X to iOS device. I think hardware for windows are to through changes and computing devices may not resemble what have today. Think of this as OS X 1.0. It was stinking pile **** for users ...As it developed it became good for users.

The problem is that Metro is a very simple UI for touch devices. There's nothing particularly evolutionary or revolutionary about it. The problem with regards to usability, is that Desktops are not touch devices and Microsoft themselves state that Metro is a touch interface. That's the crux of the issue.

For data consumers the desktop can one day become a touch environment. For data and content creators, manipulators, and managers, it won't in the near future.

I predict by the time we don't need a desktop environment for content creators, manipulators, and managers, Microsoft's dominance will be broken. With Metro on the desktop they have made several concessions that if Apple had the wherewithall could pounce on:

1) Most computer users are computer illiterate and only need one mouse button and are not advanced enough to need a context menu.

2) Most desktop computer users don't actually need the power, flexibility, and multitasking of a desktop PC and can suffice with a tablet or smartphone.

3) Apple's hated practice of built-in obsolescence forcing new hardware purchases to upgrade, is acceptable in this profit driven economy at that expense of the customer. (Specifically, all tablets and netbooks sold and still being sold to this day with resolutions below 1024x768 will not run Metro Apps at all. Microsoft has broken compatability with an entire generation of capable devices. This is Apple's modus operandi.)

They are basing the future of the desktop on these two principles with Metro. I actually believe they are way too early but we'll see. I believe their shareholders have driven some bad decisions based on fear of Apple's dominance in the demographic described above. They irony is, and you're gonna love this, Microsoft was really first with meaningful tablet/pen computing devices and was in the mobile space early enough to be much more dominant by now. Why did they fail in both these areas so miserably?

By forcing a desktop UI on to touch devices. And now they force a touch UI onto a desktop and expect a different result. The only thing in their favor is with their desktop monopoly, there's no one to take advantage of the opportunity this mistake will create on the desktop. It is good to have a monopoly. Metro on the desktop will be as annoying as all the irritating things about Vista, and we will ride it out, many will stick with Windows 7 for years, and no one will be in a posititon to challenge Microsoft's desktop monopoly.

So, FWIW, Linux fanatics, please shut your mouths forever more. You are totally insignificant and have no meaningful desktop alternative or applications worth anything for MS would not be able to ride this out without consequence.

Besides, Metro on the desktop is more annoying and poorly designed for a "desktop" than it is "bad."

[MorganX]

Wrong, UAC went away because Vista compatible programs didn't ask for permissions that brought up UAC.

6 in one hand, half dozen in the other.

[MorganX]

Not at all, the changes from 7 to 8 are minor, you can still do everything, and still in mostly the same way.

Agreed, 7 to 8 is in no way comparable to DOS to Windows 3.11, or more appropriately Windows 1.0a. No fonts other than screen, no cascaded windows, etc. :). Metro is NOT a great technological leap whatsoever. The application architecture might be, but that's a whole other topic, that isn't necessarily bad. The UI is actually old and rehashed stuff. Why reinvent the wheel? It's great in a touch environment. Not so much on the desktop the way its implemented. It will evolve but we're looking at years of annoyance.

[abysal]

But that would be counter-productive for Microsoft who is trying to kickstart a new generation of computing. How can they induce change when everyone is just going to run away from it?

What does this new start screen do that the old one didn't? If anything users should be joyous over it - it offers better customization and better layout options than the start menu ever could.

Wow; I love these circular arguments these people come up with. You guys are great!

[Stoffel]

And I disagree, not because I'm a supreme god who knows everything, but because this exactly what happen with V?sta.

People hated Vista not only because of drivers and app compatibility, but also because of UAC, and what did Microsoft do?

With Windows 7 you now have 4 options to personalize UAC. Meaning you can almost run Windows 7 like Windows XP.

Would you recommend Windows XP to those who disable UAC?

The average user hated Vista because their 'IT friends' told them it was bad.

You have no idea how many people told me they hated Vista, but when you asked them if they ever used it, it was always the same answer: 'No, but my friend told me...'

If Win8 flops it will be for the same reason, some people bitch about it because they can't be 'productive' using Win8, and they feed their opinion to the average user.

[redfish]

What I have found people are very change adverse. Especially as people get older. I still think people don't get what metro is and what its future holds and where microsoft is going with metro. From your post I think your one of those people. There is going to be some challenges especially UI will give power users and even casual useres fits. Its much bigger change then going from OS X to iOS device. I think hardware for windows are to through changes and computing devices may not resemble what have today. Think of this as OS X 1.0. It was stinking pile **** for users ...As it developed it became good for users.

Some people are change averse, other people jump on every new trend. (And in the tech world there are a lot of them, twitter, web apps vs desktop apps, tablets, etc.)

Personally I think Microsoft has some very logical reasons for going the way they are with W8.

[jakem1]

Microsoft themselves state that Metro is a touch interface.

Microsoft have quite clearly said (on a number of occasions) that Metro works equally well with touch or with a mouse and keyboard. Stop spreading FUD.

[Darrian]

And I disagree, not because I'm a supreme god who knows everything, but because this exactly what happen with V?sta.

People hated Vista not only because of drivers and app compatibility, but also because of UAC, and what did Microsoft do?

With Windows 7 you now have 4 options to personalize UAC. Meaning you can almost run Windows 7 like Windows XP.

Would you recommend Windows XP to those who disable UAC?

I didn't hate Vista. There were no "driver issues" (ALL of my hardware installed out of the box at the time, and the only driver I really had to wait for was nVidia's video drivers for the best performance in my games) and I had little program with app compatibility. Most apps that didn't work even in compatibility mode were blocked because of UAC. However, as you stated, UAC did blow, thus it was disabled, and viola all my programs worked again. Of course, I wouldn't ever go back to it, as 7 is better, but when 7 came out I considered it little more than a service pack for Vista. I still think that may be true, but that doesn't make it any less better now than it was when it was released. The biggest change, obviously, was improved UAC (which I now have enabled, though lower than the default setting) and libraries. Obviously UAC was not ditched, despite everybody hating it. I don't see why anybody would think that they're going to ditch the start screen after all the work they've put into it. Microsoft pretty much does whatever the hell they want, and we adapt or we bitch about it until the next version of Windows a few years later. Now I'm using the Windows 8 CP and probably won't ever install 7 again, as there are noticeable improvements in 8 as well and few draw backs. Ok, so now there's a start screen instead of a start menu; I'll live.

Wrong, UAC went away because Vista compatible programs didn't ask for permissions that brought up UAC.

Wrong. UAC didn't go away.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Microsoft have quite clearly said (on a number of occasions) that Metro works equally well with touch or with a mouse and keyboard.

Yet their introductory page to "Making great Metro style apps" mentions the word keyboard zero times, and the word mouse only once in the following context:

Do not build separate touch and mouse interactions.

Mabye that's because Metro is:

Designed for touch

[rfirth]

Windows 8 isn't that different from Windows 7. You all are just being dramatic. The start menu is a little bigger. Big deal. That's all you've got?

[MorganX]

The average user hated Vista because their 'IT friends' told them it was bad.

Actually, average users could have really cared less. IT rejected it which is why it really failed. No one was going to go through all that costly support, hassle, etc. Not when XP was just fine. Metro in the Enterprise could meet the same fate if there is no GPO options to boot directly to desktop and prevent access to the MS Store.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Actually, average users could have really cared less. IT rejected it which is why it really failed. No one was going to go through all that costly support, hassle, etc. Not when XP was just fine. Metro in the Enterprise could meet the same fate if there is no GPO options to boot directly to desktop and prevent access to the MS Store.

on the contrary, Microsoft is aiming for Metro to be a large benefit for Businesses, Microsoft is saying that there'll be a separate part of the MS Store that only Enterprise will have access to where they can put up their specific business apps and whatnot

the ability to see some things straight away after logging in will be a benefit to businesses

[Stoffel]

Actually, average users could have really cared less. IT rejected it which is why it really failed. No one was going to go through all that costly support, hassle, etc. Not when XP was just fine. Metro in the Enterprise could meet the same fate if there is no GPO options to boot directly to desktop and prevent access to the MS Store.

I don't think MS is really targeting the Enterprise with Win8. They would be happy if they adopted it, but for now they are aiming this mainly on the normal consumers.

Same for some of the people complaining that you can't get anything done in the Metro environment, MS doesn't expect everybody to just drop the desktop. You use Metro for your consuming and for now just go back to the desktop if you really want stuff done with multiple windows open.

That's why I still don't understand all the complaining about Win8, you can still do everything just as well as in Win7, but you get a whole new App environment extra, that will work equally well on phones, tablets and desktops. What's not to like?

[MorganX]

Microsoft have quite clearly said (on a number of occasions) that Metro works equally well with touch or with a mouse and keyboard. Stop spreading FUD.

If FACT generates FUD in you, you're just outta luck. I didn't say you had to like it, but it is fact. Whether or not MS says you can shoehorn it to be functional with a Keyboard and Mouse is beside the point:

From Microsoft's Windows Phone Insider Newsletter:

***

Does Windows 8 look familiar?

It should. Windows 8 was reimagined with an all-new touch interface using Live Tiles-just like Windows Phone. We pioneered the Metro design system for Windows Phone 7, and since then we've seen it appear on the Xbox Dashboard and in Windows 8, and we couldn't be more proud.

[MorganX]

on the contrary, Microsoft is aiming for Metro to be a large benefit for Businesses, Microsoft is saying that there'll be a separate part of the MS Store that only Enterprise will have access to where they can put up their specific business apps and whatnot

the ability to see some things straight away after logging in will be a benefit to businesses

I can see value to that on a local store. Perhaps in the same way WSUS locally distributes updates. Of course this is of less and less value in a web app world, but good nontheless. The consumer store however, must be blocked. If you cannot do it in a GPO, it will be done at the Web Filter or Firewall. But it will be done.

We're really not even thinking about deploying to the desktop at this time. Upon release, that will change. Server however, even with Metro UI madness, is a go!

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

This article by Paul Thurrott actually seems somewhat reasonable for once...:

For Better Or Worse, Windows 8 To Be Industry Inflection Point

The worry, simply, is that Microsoft's quest to create a no-compromises version of Windows that answers all needs might have resulted in something that is very much a compromise. Turning Microsoft's own marketing lingo against it is cheap, I know. But that's the fear. And it sits at the heart of a debate that won't quiet down anytime soon.

[MorganX]

I don't think MS is really targeting the Enterprise with Win8. They would be happy if they adopted it, but for now they are aiming this mainly on the normal consumers.

Same for some of the people complaining that you can't get anything done in the Metro environment, MS doesn't expect everybody to just drop the desktop. You use Metro for your consuming and for now just go back to the desktop if you really want stuff done with multiple windows open.

That's why I still don't understand all the complaining about Win8, you can still do everything just as well as in Win7, but you get a whole new App environment extra, that will work equally well on phones, tablets and desktops. What's not to like?

Believe it or not I'm warming to Metro, but not on the productive desktop :) I thought MS was aiming at consumers until they forced a scaled down metro on to Server. They're all in. It's not so bad on Server because there's won't be the annoying visits to the start menu and you do generally only work one task/app/or management console.

I'm actually excited about the app environment. I just wish it were an option on the desktop. For those days when I have lots of work to do, 5 or more RDP sessions, 5 browsers, etc. and constant searches, I will be quite annoyed. I absolutely love Metro on phones and my limited experience with my HP Slate 500 (which can't run metro apps due to resolution though it runs 8 with great performance) was very nice. The Charm bar is much much nicer on a tablet. I just wish they had made the Start Page on the desktop optional and made keeping the start button optional. Or, making Metro a HUD over the desktop rather than an opaque background that completely removes your focus from whatever you're doing on the desktop.

I still can't see myself ever full screen browsing very much. The entire web will have to redesign to landscape and that's not going to happen with iPad being portrait ;>

[Brandon H Supervisor]

I can see value to that on a local store. Perhaps in the same way WSUS locally distributes updates. Of course this is of less and less value in a web app world, but good nontheless. The consumer store however, must be blocked. If you cannot do it in a GPO, it will be done at the Web Filter or Firewall. But it will be done.

We're really not even thinking about deploying to the desktop at this time. Upon release, that will change. Server however, even with Metro UI madness, is a go!

you are correct, from what I understood that Microsoft was saying is that businesses will be able to block the public sector of the MS store and only allow access to their private store sector

that was a long while ago that I remember them talking about business use though, back around the time of DP but if it does become possible businesses will be able to make great use of it

[Brandon H Supervisor]

I still can't see myself ever full screen browsing very much. The entire web will have to redesign to landscape and that's not going to happen with iPad being portrait ;>

oddly I find more and more people using their iPad in landscape mode more often so this may soon be moot

[MorganX]

oddly I find more and more people using their iPad in landscape mode more often so this may soon be moot

While I hate admitting I have an iPad (Wintel for life baby), I do use it in landscape for 2 things, Netflix and Infiniti blade. Never browse in landscape.

Interesting thought though, I do often browse on phone in landscape for enlargement, and I have a Titan. Landscape pages would make phone browsing a more enjoyable and productive experience. If developers were to follow and change the orientation of basic web design, I could do it on the desktop. But this is a huge, huge undertaking. I don't know that MS has a enough trust in Web Dev Community to get them to follow this early.

Not to derail but I can't wait till April 9 to get a Lumia 900. This will be Metro Nirvana!