PC Hardware buying guide [Q1 2013]

By Muhammad Farrukh
in Hardware Hangout

 Share

Recommended Posts

Grand Master

rajputwarrior

Posted
Posted

No, no no we cannot be having this. The dual core i3 obviously beats all of the quad/hexa/eight core processors :p. It is also so much cheaper (even though the motherboards are more expenisve).

at least that way you are forced to get a good mobo, not the crap suggested in the OP.

Collaborator

Site Lab

Posted
Posted

Here is my AMD + UK Price recomendations:

This is for the full machine, PSU + Case and the lot.

APU Build

?327.70 inc VAT + Free Delivery

Budget Build (General office work, internet browsing, flash games)

?209.67 inc VAT + Free Delivery

Mainstream (Medium settings, office work, photoshop.etc)

?388.04 inc VAT + Free Delivery

High-End (High settings, photoshop video rendering.etc)

?610.57 inc VAT + Free Delivery

Ultimate (Maximum settings, Video Rending, Extreme power!)

?1201.80 inc VAT + Free Delivery

This build could do with a lot of changes, for example the PSU costs nearly as much as the processor :o. I chose corsair because it is a reputable brand and 850W is more than enough juice for this :p

  • Muhammad Farrukh
  • Like 1
Veteran

CentralDogma

Posted
Posted

I haven?t looked over all your builds, Site Lab, but it seems like you?ve just thrown in AMD processors for the sake of it, regardless of their performance.

In your APU build by including a discrete graphics card, you?re negating any value you would get with the AMD 3870K. I?m not sure it would be able to outperform the Pentium G850 in the budget build which is cheaper($87 vs $139). We don?t have a low cost HTPC build, and that?s probably where an AMD APU would shine, using integrated graphics.

In your high end build, an Intel i3-2120 ($127) is going to outperform that FX-6100 ($149) according to that chart I posted on the last page. Hell, it looks like even the Pentium G850 will out perform at less than two thirds the price.

And, I don?t know how you can honestly recommend the AMD FX-8150, which is underpriced and outperformed by the Intel i5 2500K, for any build, much less an ?extreme power, money be damned? build.

  • Muhammad Farrukh
  • Like 1
Collaborator

Site Lab

Posted
Posted

but it seems like you?ve just thrown in AMD processors for the sake of it, regardless of their performance.

I haven't. There is reason why I have chosen each setup. These aren't meant to beat intel, but where they do they are quite good machines for the prices.

In your APU build by including a discrete graphics card, you?re negating any value you would get with the AMD 3870K. I?m not sure it would be able to outperform the Pentium G850 in the budget build which is cheaper($87 vs $139). We don?t have a low cost HTPC build, and that?s probably where an AMD APU would shine, using integrated graphics.

Ok, the reason i including a discrete graphics card with the APU is because of the crossfire performance when combining a 6670 and the intregated graphics in the GPU. Since I cannot find any benchmarks with the crossfire here in question, I turned to Youtube. For example here we have:

<- Battlefield 3 running on this setup with 40FPS on medium/high settings.

Infact, change that just found one.

game05.jpg

60 FPS on Dirt 2 on medium, which is more than playable for the price of the system.

Here is Saints Row 3 running on the same setup -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIYeRy2nQlc

For the price, this is quite an excellent budget gaming system, this is why I chose this setup.

In your high end build, an Intel i3-2120 ($127) is going to outperform that FX-6100 ($149) according to that chart I posted on the last page. Hell, it looks like even the Pentium G850 will out perform at less than two thirds the price.

Here, the i3-2120 will probably beat the FX-6100. (If a Phenom X4 970 or X6 1090t was available, I would have chose that but I chose the next best thing due to reviews/ratings on ebuyer itself...).

According to PassMark benchmark scores, the FX-6100 scores 5,616 and the i3-2120 scores 4,200. Plus the FX-6100 has more cores than the i3. (Six cores vs Two)

However, lets look at what a similar system would cost on the same website:

Total price is now: ?643.16 compared to ?610.67. For ?32.49 extra you are basically getting 4 less cores, a bit more performance in gaming and less performance in multi-tasking/other stuff.

And, I don?t know how you can honestly recommend the AMD FX-8150, which is underpriced and outperformed by the Intel i5 2500K, for any build, much less an ?extreme power, money be damned? build.

Course the i5 2500k may be cheaper, but "money be damned" like you said :p

Anyway, the reason i recommended the FX-8150 in the AMD category is because it is the fastest AMD CPU available and actually offers more performance than the i5 2500k.

In passmark the FX-8150 scores 8244 whereas the i5-2500k scores 6743. Also, the FX-8150 has 8 cores compared to the 4 in the i5-2500k. (Not that will be much of an improvement for most applications).

In DIRT 3:

http://www.hardwares...php?image=39558

The FX-8150 offers 7 MORE FPS! (Such a MASSIVE improvement *sarcasam*)

http://www.hardwares...php?image=39556

In Cinebench 11.5 the FX-8150 comes closer to the i7-2600k (which is dearer than the FX-8150.)

In photoshop CS5 the FX-8150 takes less time than the i5-2500k:

image014.png

However, in 3d Max the i5 does beat the FX-8150 by a small margin :(

image015.png

41713.png

IN Civilization the FX-8150 gains an additional 4 fps.

41708.png

In Dirt 3 here, Il admit the i5-2500k is faster.

41705.png

In Metro 2033 it is 0.5fps slower. (Not that much)

41706.png

At 1920x1200 it is 2.5 slower.

41704.png

In the Rage vt_benchmark the FX-8150 takes less time to transcode textures.

41695.png

In multi-threaded benchmarks the FX-8150 beats the i5-2500k, however in single threaded the i5-2500k wins.

41698.png

The single most important benchmark. ITS FASTER IN 7-ZIP THAN THE I5!!!!!

41697.png

Renders faster.

41693.png

Its faster in EXCEL as well.

Lets see at the price though:

Quote

With intel options of:

Intel Core i5 2500K 3.3GHz Socket 1155 6MB Cache Retail Boxed Processor ?168.46

AND Asus SABERTOOTH P67 R3 P67 Socket 1155 8 Channel HD Audio ATX Motherboard ?148.83

The price comes to: ?13 dearer.

Veteran

CentralDogma

Posted
Posted

Ok, the reason i including a discrete graphics card with the APU is because of the crossfire performance when combining a 6670 and the intregated graphics in the GPU. Since I cannot find any benchmarks with the crossfire here in question, I turned to Youtube. For example here we have:

Battlefield 3 running on this setup with 40FPS on medium/high settings.

Infact, change that just found one.

60 FPS on Dirt 2 on medium, which is more than playable for the price of the system.

Here is Saints Row 3 running on the same setup ->

For the price, this is quite an excellent budget gaming system, this is why I chose this setup.

You're right, it's not easy to find a benchmark that pairs the AMD 3870K with discreate graphics against an Intel CPU with the same. If there were, these would be a lot clearer issue.

Here, the i3-2120 will probably beat the FX-6100. (If a Phenom X4 970 or X6 1090t was available, I would have chose that but I chose the next best thing due to reviews/ratings on ebuyer itself...).

According to PassMark benchmark scores, the FX-6100 scores 5,616 and the i3-2120 scores 4,200. Plus the FX-6100 has more cores than the i3. (Six cores vs Two)

However, lets look at what a similar system would cost on the same website:

Total price is now: ?643.16 compared to ?610.67. For ?32.49 extra you are basically getting 4 less cores, a bit more performance in gaming and less performance in multi-tasking/other stuff.

The Asrock P67 EXTREME4 V3 is a bad deal (at least in comparison to the Gigabyte GA-970A-D3). If you go with the Asus P8Z68-V LX, you end up saving ?16 and getting a better system.

Course the i5 2500k may be cheaper, but "money be damned" like you said :p

Anyway, the reason i recommended the FX-8150 in the AMD category is because it is the fastest AMD CPU available and actually offers more performance than the i5 2500k.

Lets see at the price though:

Quote

With intel options of:

Intel Core i5 2500K 3.3GHz Socket 1155 6MB Cache Retail Boxed Processor ?168.46

AND Asus SABERTOOTH P67 R3 P67 Socket 1155 8 Channel HD Audio ATX Motherboard ?148.83

The price comes to: ?13 dearer.

Sure, if we're buying on value, you can make an argument against an i5 2500k. But if you're comparing performance (and this build is suppose to be the ?extreme performance? machine) the i7 3930k (or any i7 for that matter) will win handily.

Plus the FX-6100 has more cores than the i3. (Six cores vs Two)

?

Also, the FX-8150 has 8 cores compared to the 4 in the i5-2500k. (Not that will be much of an improvement for most applications).

I'd just like to point this out since you've compared the number of cores. Much like it was a bad idea to compare MHz during the Pentium 4 days (when AMD was thoroughly out preforming them at a lower clock speed), so too is it to compare cores. They are two different architectures and your performance in the real world will vary as a result.

Secondly, AMDs Bulldozer?cores? are not cores in the traditional sense. A Bulldozer ?module?, a pair of core, is what is a traditional core. Each ?core? has it's own integer logic, L1 cache, and 128-bit floating point logic. However each pair of ?cores? (one ?module?) shares early pipeline stages (eg. fetch, decode), L2 cache, and 256-bit floating point logic. The result is something in between 2 traditional cores and 1 traditional core, that works well at integer heavy workloads and less so at floating point work. I hesitate to liken it to Hyperthreading because they are two wholly unrelated technologies.

Grand Master

Vice

Posted
Posted

With Ivy Bridge launching in like a week these AMD to 2500K comparisons are kind of pointless. Anyone thinking about buying a system right now would be waiting to see what happens with Ivy Bridge as Intel will be unleashing a full compliment of i7 and i5 processors in all price ranges.

And even if someone wasn't interested in the new Ivy Bridge chips the older Sandy Bridge processors will still hold their own and be significantly discounted.

Grand Master

Muhammad Farrukh

Posted
  • Author
Posted

SiteLab, you are partly right about APUs, but not, at all, about the Phenoms and Bulldozers.

Here is a read you might find interesting.

Of course, its concentration is mainly on gaming, but also, in other benchmarks, Bulldozer can't compete with i5, in some even i3, obviously not in multi-threaded apps.

Vice, I agree, about the IvyBridge part.

Thing is, that there are people who can't wait for the next gen tech. I personally have built 2 PCs in the span of last 2 weeks.

I will update the processors lines, when IVyBridge is available in masses

  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
Mentor

Blaine

Posted
Posted

Hey guys, is the AMD 6870 still the best card for under $200 USD?

Or would the Nvidia GTX 560

or something not on the list?

I'm trying to help a friend pick the best card for under 200.00, and since I've completely switched to a mac, I've lost touch with the PC hardware scene. :s

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...
  • 2 months later...
Grand Master

Kami-

Posted
Posted

Half of the system specs above are missing hard-drives, other half have hard-drives listed & priced.

No consideration for optical drives.

Also, I don't (personally) agree with a number of your proposed specifications; I can either build better for less on the budgets or better for similar on the higher end specs (assuming USA only websites).

Wasted my time opening this thread, let alone reading it - very disappointed.

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...
Veteran

YounGMessiah

Posted
Posted

How often is this updated? Just curious, I'll be in the market in a few months, will probably just post a thread for all of your thoughts when that occurs but I like the idea of this thread.

What do you want to know?

  • 2 months later...

Guest

Posted
Posted

What the hell is this 'guide'??? Seriously... this is total crap.
I haven't looked at the PC hardware market since 2006 so reading something to get me up to speed would've been perfect. Being given example builds with NO explanation whatsoever is just crap. Then obviously you get people disagreeing with that build....

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Posts

    • Microsoft confirms Windows 11 26H2, urges IT admins to prepare for release

      By +mram · Posted

      That lens of history will burn if you hold it at the right angle... Warn users too late: Shame, Microsoft! That extremely minor update to an obscure Control Panel widget required 2 years of warning. Warn users too early: Shame, Microsoft! We've got better things to do. Pipeline and process be damned, we'll just always be disappointed, eh?
    • Microsoft Paint used to be my favorite Windows app as a kid, and it's still pretty good

      By Usama Jawad96 · Posted

      Microsoft Paint used to be my favorite Windows app as a kid, and it's still pretty good by Usama Jawad I have been using Windows since the early 2000s, when I was around 10 years old or so. I vaguely remember playing around with Windows 98 and Windows 2000, but that may have been on school PCs which had old operating systems installed. My main OS on the home PC, and the one I recall spending most time with, was Windows XP. At that time, I used the home PC to create Word and PowerPoint documents for school, but a lot of the time, I simply used it to play games. My dad would bring game discs which we would try and install on the PC, sometimes unsuccessfully, and sometimes, we would rely on flash games in the browser, like Bubble Trouble on Miniclip. However, the problem with the latter approach was the internet speed. On a good day, our dial-up internet would offer us speeds of 56 kbps, but on most days, it was closer to 33 kbps. This did not facilitate online gaming as I would often have to wait minutes for a game to load or "draw" on the screen, and trying to download pirated games wasn't simple either. I remember getting tired of waiting for online games to load and just downloading simulator games from the Big Fish Games website instead, only to be disappointed after finding out that I was just being given access to trial versions of the title, and I needed to fork out money to pay for the full version. All of this is to say that it wasn't very easy to find entertainment options on the home PC when I was a kid, due to a number of reasons, mostly outside of my control. This situation pushed me towards a rather unconventional ally: Microsoft Paint. Whenever the internet wasn't working as good as I expected, I would simply spin up Paint and draw complete rubbish on the canvas. Of course, that wasn't always the intention, but it usually happened when I messed up drawing a straight line or something, and then I would give up on that particular piece and simply draw a random collection of objects. Microsoft Paint was extremely accessible and easy to use. Even if you weren't an artist, you could quickly understand the tools at your disposal and how to leverage them on a canvas. The absolute breadth on offer ensured that each painting was truly unique, as you could utilize various combinations of tools like the pencil, paint, spray paint, and more to truly personalize your creation. Since I wasn't particularly good at drawing both on digital screen or a physical screen, I remember that my main style of art would be to insert a bunch of randomly intersecting lines and then fill them with random colors through the paint can. I have trying to replicate that art style in the latest version of Paint below, and as you can see, it's truly Pablo Picasso-esque. The human imagination truly knows no bounds Microsoft Paint kept me occupied for hours and was my best friend when video games on the home PC were inaccessible for one reason or the other. There was no academic or professional reason for which I would need to use Paint, but I still loved using it in my personal time, even if what I created wasn't worth being shown to anyone. It was simply fun. Fast-forward to today, and the situation is mostly the same. Now that I am almost 29 years old, and I still have no reason to use Microsoft Paint in a professional capacity. In fact, I don't even use it in a personal capacity, except to dabble with it from time to time, just to see if core functionalities are still intact. And I'm happy to say that I think Microsoft Paint still offers the same accessibility and inviting experience that it did to me a couple of decades ago, even though its UX has been refreshed and it's been integrated with Copilot features. Interestingly, things could have been a lot different, had Microsoft had its way. Microsoft Paint was marked for deprecation with the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update in 2017, and even began displaying a product retirement alert, urging customers to shift to Paint 3D instead. Fortunately, after consumer backlash, Microsoft reversed course on this decision, and Paint continues to be a native app inside Windows installations that can also be updated quite frequently through the Microsoft Store. Instead, Paint 3D ended up on the chopping block, which is for the better, I think. I have intermittently played around with Microsoft's refreshed Paint experience in the past few years, and I do think it has received worthwhile upgrades. the UI and the UX has been modernized while retaining core functionality, and the app is still fairly easy to use. It doesn't meet any of my use-cases, but I've never really had any use-cases ever, as described previously. Of course, the elephant in the room is the Copilot integration. Personally, I believe that this is one place where Copilot does make sense, environmental concerns aside. I know that a lot of creatives use AI to generate images, and while some may be using professional alternatives, Paint still offers a decent casual experience, with the power of Copilot. Of course, you do need to have a valid Microsoft 365 Copilot license and available credits to use it, but even if you don't, you still get the big Copilot button in the toolbar, unfortunately. All in all, I am glad that Microsoft Paint continues to be a native feature in Windows 11, and a piece of software that has evolved to meet modern needs without cutting off its own roots. It's just an iconic piece of Windows history that was an essential part of my childhood, and while I don't use it anymore, I'm just glad it is still there.
    • 2TB WD_Black SN7100 PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD drops to its lowest price in over three months

      By Fiza Ali · Posted

      2TB WD_Black SN7100 PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD drops to its lowest price in over three months by Fiza Ali Amazon is currently offering the 2TB WD_Black SN7100 internal solid-state drive at its lowest price in over three months, so you may want to check it out, if you have been considering a storage upgrade, before the deal dries up (purchase link is toward the end of the article). Featuring a PCIe Gen 4.0 interface and M.2 2280 form factor, the SN7100 promises to deliver sequential read speeds of up to 7,250MB/s and sequential write speeds reaching 6,900MB/s, offering as much as a 35% improvement in performance compared with the previous generation. It also achieves random read speeds of 1,000,000 IOPS and random write speeds of 1,400,000 IOPS. The drive uses Western Digital’s TLC 3D NAND technology for reliable performance and is further supported by a five-year limited warranty. It also offers strong endurance, rated at up to 1,200TBW, making it suitable for demanding workloads such as gaming, content creation, and high-speed recording. Moreover, its DRAM-less architecture claims to improve power efficiency (the SSD relies on system memory for caching via HMB), while the WD_Black Dashboard software enables users to monitor drive health, install firmware updates, and activate Game Mode for potentially better performance. Finally, it operates within an operating temperature range of 0°C to 85°C, and can withstand storage temperatures from -40°C to 85°C. 2TB WD_Black SN7100 PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD: $242.96 (Amazon US) Check this deal out if you want a 4TB option. Good to know This Amazon deal is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • Windows 11 gets new audio improvements in the latest builds

      By cork1958 · Posted

      Hopefully this will fix the issue of no sound I have since last months stupid, and non-removable, Microsoft Corporation AudioProcessingObject Driver Update (1.0.3.56670)
    • Windows 11 version 26H2 is now available for testing in the latest preview build

      By Captain_Eric · Posted

      It IS confusing! What channel are you in on each device? I'm guessing your 16GB device is on Experimental (formerly known as Dev) and your 128GB is on Beta.

  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      Supreme Spray LV earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Genuinetonerink- Dubai earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Genuinetonerink- Dubai earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Year In
      hhgygy earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      AMV earned a badge
      Week One Done

  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      514
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      163
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      87
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      74
    5. 5
      Michael Scrip
      73
    Show More

  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!