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I wouldn't be too surprised right now if Windows 8's market share was shirking in light of the upcoming Release Preview.

I would. Considering the fact that likely the only ones to download/install the RC are the people who downloaded and installed the CP.

I would. Considering the fact that likely the only ones to download/install the RC are the people who downloaded and installed the CP.

I agree - although people might hold off in the light of being so close to the next build (and the promise of fixing what's got people so fired up about it) - overall though your statement holds up for me.

I will install it - but not at home - only at work where I can easily devote a PC to it (and where I have an obligation to check it out anyway). I've been using the CP since release and overall I like it - but I do have the same problems with the accessibility of the start screen that others raise. I barely see the screen itself and it works pretty much like the old start menu so it doesn't present me with any issues (I only ever typed in the 7 one anyway). I do think it's a very difficult sell for MS though.

That actually made me giggle :)

But, OT - do you really have no problem with your original statement?

I do not because again, Mountain Lion requires a $99 fee from developers to get the operating system. According to some sources there were around 50,000 registered and paid Apple developers in 2010. I couldn't find any more up to date info in the few minutes I searched online before making this post but I'm sure it's more now. Considering Apple holds about 6% of the consumer computer market which consists of a few million users and only around 50,000 to lets say 200,000 of those are developers and even have access to Mountain Lion (after paying $99 per year) It is conceivable to believe that Windows 8, which has many more developers and above 90% market share among consumers would have a much much larger impact than it currently does in stats.

Your point earlier about why Windows 7 was more popular (that people were eager to get away from Windows XP) may be completely valid and I'm not refuting that, but it doesn't change the fact that what I'm saying, which is Windows 8 isn't as popular as previous operating systems is true. If anything what you're saying supports my position that this is one of the least popular operating systems Microsoft has released. And I mean popular in its strictly definition term of actual usage.

When you take all the information together, the small market share of OS X, the $99 fee to get Mountain Lion, Windows 90% PC market share combined with the free consumer preview it all becomes clear that Windows 8 should have a lot more users than OS X Mountain Lion does, several orders of magnitude more. And that just isn't happening. It should be way higher than 50%.

When you take all the information together, the small market share of OS X, the $99 fee to get Mountain Lion, Windows 90% PC market share combined with the free consumer preview it all becomes clear that Windows 8 should have a lot more users than OS X Mountain Lion does, several orders of magnitude more. And that just isn't happening. It should be way higher than 50%.

I think I mentioned this earlier, but Windows has closer to a 99% possible marketshare, since any Intel Mac can run Boot Camp, which is in fact how I ran the Windows 8 preview.

I wouldn't be too surprised right now if Windows 8's market share was shirking in light of the upcoming Release Preview.

I don't quite get the context here, please explain! Why would the market share "shirk"?? I really do not think that "market share" can shirk! :huh: I think that I know(?) what it is that you are trying to say, but not really 100% sure.

Verb: Shirking.

To avoid or neglect (a duty or responsibility).

Be unwilling to do (something difficult): "we should not shirk from making the effort".

I don't quite get the context here, please explain! Why would the market share "shirk"?? I really do not think that "market share" can shirk! :huh: I think that I know(?) what it is that you are trying to say, but not really 100% sure.

Verb: Shirking.

To avoid or neglect (a duty or responsibility).

Be unwilling to do (something difficult): "we should not shirk from making the effort".

I think he meant Shrink and it was just a typo.

I agree - although people might hold off in the light of being so close to the next build (and the promise of fixing what's got people so fired up about it) - overall though your statement holds up for me.

Hmm, I dunno the CP has been out for 3 months now (I think), I think that if people were going to get it they would have by now. I can't see there being many (if any) new downloads per day from people who don't have it installed and are just doing it for the first time now.

I do not because again, Mountain Lion requires a $99 fee from developers to get the operating system. According to some sources there were around 50,000 registered and paid Apple developers in 2010. I couldn't find any more up to date info in the few minutes I searched online before making this post but I'm sure it's more now. Considering Apple holds about 6% of the consumer computer market which consists of a few million users and only around 50,000 to lets say 200,000 of those are developers and even have access to Mountain Lion (after paying $99 per year) It is conceivable to believe that Windows 8, which has many more developers and above 90% market share among consumers would have a much much larger impact than it currently does in stats.

Your point earlier about why Windows 7 was more popular (that people were eager to get away from Windows XP) may be completely valid and I'm not refuting that, but it doesn't change the fact that what I'm saying, which is Windows 8 isn't as popular as previous operating systems is true. If anything what you're saying supports my position that this is one of the least popular operating systems Microsoft has released. And I mean popular in its strictly definition term of actual usage.

When you take all the information together, the small market share of OS X, the $99 fee to get Mountain Lion, Windows 90% PC market share combined with the free consumer preview it all becomes clear that Windows 8 should have a lot more users than OS X Mountain Lion does, several orders of magnitude more. And that just isn't happening. It should be way higher than 50%.

1. I am sure there is a torrent somewhere of ML that anyone can freely access and use ML without paying a dime to Apple. Why do you keep bringing that $99 thing? The target users for beta are mostly people like us and majority of Windows users are in enterprise where you can't really install stuff let alone an OS on a whim.

2. Windows 8 CP(beta) has more users than Windows 7 beta at the same point in their respective dev. cycles as per Microsoft.

3. Windows 8 isn't as popular on neowin as Windows 7 for sure. :p

The several magnitudes more than ML is a bit tricky. If ML has say 1M users, do you really think Win8 should have like 100M users? that's not realistic by any measure.

1. I am sure there is a torrent somewhere of ML that anyone can freely access and use ML without paying a dime to Apple. Why do you keep bringing that $99 thing? The target users for beta are mostly people like us and majority of Windows users are in enterprise where you can't really install stuff let alone an OS on a whim.

2. Windows 8 CP(beta) has more users than Windows 7 beta at the same point in their respective dev. cycles as per Microsoft.

3. Windows 8 isn't as popular on neowin as Windows 7 for sure. :p

The several magnitudes more than ML is a bit tricky.

Well lets just say I disagree with your opinion.

Hmm, I dunno the CP has been out for 3 months now (I think), I think that if people were going to get it they would have by now. I can't see there being many (if any) new downloads per day from people who don't have it installed and are just doing it for the first time now.

I have it installed on two systems but I am still not using it as primary OS because I still don't trust it to put my data on it. I narrowly escaped the mp3 bug in Windows 7 beta and didn't want to try my luck this time :p I fully plan to shift once 8RP is out provided the basic apps are a bit more usable.

which one? 1, 2 or 3 or all? :p

also edited my last line. :)

I just disagree with your opinion that Windows 8 shouldn't have a higher market share compared to OS X Mountain Lion regardless of the points you made.

Microsoft doesn't know how many users are actively using Windows 8, only the amount of downloaders when it put the ISO up. I downloaded it twice, but I'm not using it.

And yes Mountain Lion is available on Bittorrent as is everything digital and I did make note of this in my first post in this thread but I question how many OS X users would be willing to install it over their current Lion installs and risk instability. Dual Booting of OS X is possible on Macs but in my opinion it is only really easy if you have an external drive to install the 2nd OS X on to. And simply saying it is available on Bittorrent doesn't really change anything, OS X's market share is still 6% and Windows is 90%+

And yeah Windows 8 isn't as popular as Windows 7 is on Neowin. I wont start a discussion on why that is or this thread will gain another 30 pages of discussion on that alone.

I just disagree with your opinion that Windows 8 shouldn't have a higher market share compared to OS X Mountain Lion regardless of the points you made.

Microsoft doesn't know how many users are actively using Windows 8, only the amount of downloaders when it put the ISO up. I downloaded it twice, but I'm not using it.

And yes Mountain Lion is available on Bittorrent as is everything digital and I did make note of this in my first post in this thread but I question how many OS X users would be willing to install it over their current Lion installs and risk instability. Dual Booting of OS X is possible on Macs but in my opinion it is only really easy if you have an external drive to install the 2nd OS X on to. And simply saying it is available on Bittorrent doesn't really change anything, OS X's market share is still 6% and Windows is 90%+

And yeah Windows 8 isn't as popular as Windows 7 is on Neowin. I wont start a discussion on why that is or this thread will gain another 30 pages of discussion on that alone.

Gaah...I never said Windows 8 shouldn't have higher market share just disputing your "many magnitudes" higher comment. As you said, not many people are willing to actively risk a beta OS (I am one of them) but not sure why we are discussing this point.:p

You can't really conclude from OS marketshare because OS X is primarily non-enterprise, mostly consumer whereas Windows is majority enterprise. The enterprise marketshare shouldn't even be considered in your comaprision.

Also, I am sure Microsoft knows how many "active Windows 8 sessions" and in turn active users are out there because the beta is logging CEIP by default and users can't disabled it in UI.

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    • Removed the blue and underline as you did not post a link. This would also  be considered spamming.
    • Why it's almost impossible to produce a smartphone in the United States by Hamid Ganji If you look at the back of some Apple products, you can see the famous phrase “Designed by Apple in California, Assembled in China.” This phrase appears on products from one of the largest smartphone brands in the United States. These products are designed in the U.S., but their manufacturing takes place in China, India, Vietnam, or even Brazil. But why can’t Apple, as one of the largest American tech companies, produce its iPhones on U.S. soil? The idea for this topic came to me after the Trump Foundation launched a smartphone called the T1 and claimed that it was designed and built with American values in mind. However, this claim did not last long, as it was revealed that Trump’s phone was actually a rebranded HTC U24 Pro, with only a gold case and minor internal component changes. You see? Even a phone that is supposed to represent American values is manufactured in China. With a gross domestic product (GDP) exceeding $32 trillion, the United States is currently the world’s largest economy, while China ranks second with around $20 trillion. On the other hand, the United States is by a wide margin the global leader in various technological fields, and American companies spend hundreds of billions of dollars annually on research and development. From Apple and Google to Microsoft, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and others, American tech and industrial giants lead their foreign competitors in many sectors. The United States also has no shortage of smartphone brands. Apple, Google, and Motorola are among the major brands in the smartphone market, collectively holding a significant share. However, the vast majority of their products are manufactured outside the United States. So why is it that the world’s largest economy, home to the most advanced technology companies and industrial powers, cannot produce a smartphone on its own soil? Let’s explore this question together. Even threats to impose tariffs won’t work After Trump entered the White House as the 47th President of the United States, his administration adopted strict tariff policies. One of these policies was the imposition of a 25% tariff on smartphones manufactured outside the United States. Trump said he “had a little problem” with Apple CEO Tim Cook over producing smartphones outside the U.S. So he thought that threatening a 25% tax on imported phones might force Apple to bring manufacturing back to the United States. “I have long ago informed Tim Cook of Apple that I expect their iPhones that will be sold in the United States of America will be manufactured and built in the United States, not India, or anyplace else,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. Image via The White House Although Apple currently manufactures some of the iPhone’s chips in the United States with TSMC's help, it still shows no willingness to shift full iPhone production to the country. At the time, renowned Apple supply chain analyst Ming-Chi Kuo wrote on X, “In terms of profitability, it’s way better for Apple to take the hit of a 25% tariff on iPhones sold in the US market than to move iPhone assembly lines back to the US.” However, manufacturing a smartphone in the United States is not as easy as it might seem, and many technical and economic barriers are involved. The lack of necessary manufacturing hubs There is a clear reason why many companies prefer to manufacture their products in China. China has established itself as the main global manufacturing hub for international companies, and over the past few decades, large contract manufacturers have emerged there, allowing companies like Apple to outsource production. One such example is Foxconn, which also manufactures some Apple products in India. Building the infrastructure required to produce smartphones in the United States would require tens of billions of dollars in new investment. Factories would need to be built, essential manufacturing equipment would have to be installed, and, most importantly, a skilled workforce capable of operating these systems would need to be recruited and trained. The United States currently lacks the core infrastructure needed to manufacture smartphones, and for this reason, many companies prefer to outsource production to Chinese contractors rather than spend tens of billions of dollars to build that infrastructure, which is significantly more economically efficient. Additionally, building such infrastructure in the United States could take up to a decade, ultimately leading to a significant increase in the product's final price for consumers. Shortage of trained labor in the U.S. compared to China Decades of serving as a global manufacturing hub have allowed China to build a massive talent pool in the production sector that is almost unmatched worldwide. Today, if a company chooses to manufacture its products in China, it can be confident that the workers involved in production have years of experience in their respective roles and are capable of producing high-quality goods with minimal errors. Even if we assume that tens of billions of dollars were invested in building smartphone manufacturing infrastructure in the United States, finding skilled workers would remain highly challenging. Apple CEO Tim Cook visiting the iPhone 6 assembly line in China in 2014. Image: Tim Cook on X In a 2015 interview on CBS’s 60 Minutes, Tim Cook said the main reason Apple isn’t producing in the US is a lack of skills. "China put an enormous focus on manufacturing, in what you and I would call vocational kind of skills. The US over time began to stop having as many vocational kinds of skills. I mean you could take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in the room that we're currently sitting in. In China you would have to have multiple football fields,” Cook said. Also, in 2017, at the Fortune Global Forum in Guangzhou, Cook once again emphasized the importance of highly skilled Chinese workers. “China has moved into very advanced manufacturing, so you find in China the intersection of craftsman kind of skill, and sophisticated robotics and the computer science world. That intersection, which is very rare to find anywhere, that kind of skill, is very important to our business because of the precision and quality level that we like. The thing that most people focus on if they’re a foreigner coming to China is the size of the market, and obviously, it’s the biggest market in the world in so many areas. But for us, the number one attraction is the quality of the people,” Apple CEO said. Higher labor costs in the United States Producing almost any product in the United States is more expensive than in many other countries, and one of the main reasons is the higher cost of labor in the U.S. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, median weekly earnings of full-time workers in the United States were $1,235 in the first quarter of 2026. Meanwhile, the average annual salary in China's private sector in 2025 was RMB 71,590 (US$9,961). In many parts of the world, the weekly wage of an American worker is equivalent to several months of income. Another important factor to consider is that in the United States, the workforce capable of working on a smartphone assembly line is highly specialized and therefore commands higher-than-average wages. 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    • Cheers everyone for the replies. It's been very useful. 👍
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