Nurse refuses student inhaler during asthma attack

[shamilbear]

Come work in healthcare for a bit, you will quickly discover that this story makes no sense at all. Media sensationalism combined with leaving out details.

Bournemouth Hospital, 2011, Critical Cardiac Care and A + E. :)

It is the school's responsibility, yes, but in failing that, why didn't she do it? I would NEVER put my kids life solely in the hands of another. That's why they have MY contact information. I would make that call if I felt it was necessary. The parent should ALWAYS be more cautious for their child than anyone else, but she didn't.

Good thing you don't have to be repsonsible anymore these days in most people eyes. /s

And as sidroc pointed out, there is more to this story.

I didn't know that you can do more than two things at the same time. I would expect the school to act appropriately - I wouldn't expect the mother to have to go to the school AND call 911 AND ensure that her child is properly being taken care of my the school.

You subconsciously put your kids life in others' hands. They act in loco parentis. They have your contact details purely for a legal reason, as the guardian. At the end of the day, they make the final decision, not you. They only have your information to inform you on the situation - that is all.

[moloko]

While yes she should of turned in the proper paperwork, the nurse should of called 911. This would make an interesting court battle that the school system would probably settle out of court.

[FloatingFatMan]

While yes she should of turned in the proper paperwork, the nurse should of called 911. This would make an interesting court battle that the school system would probably settle out of court.

Were I the parent in this instance, settling out of court would not be on the cards. I wouldn't be in it for money, I'd be making damn sure their gross negligence doesn't put some other child at risk, and the only way to ensure that is to make sure they're punished and those responsible removed from their position.

[Memphis]

Bournemouth Hospital, 2011, Critical Cardiac Care and A + E. :)

I didn't know that you can do more than two things at the same time. I would expect the school to act appropriately - I wouldn't expect the mother to have to go to the school AND call 911 AND ensure that her child is properly being taken care of my the school.

You subconsciously put your kids life in others' hands. They act in loco parentis. They have your contact details purely for a legal reason, as the guardian. At the end of the day, they make the final decision, not you. They only have your information to inform you on the situation - that is all.

RN?

[shamilbear]

RN?

Shadow Doctor and pre triage.

[Memphis]

So you were shadowing a physician performing pre triage assessments or what? Also, that hospital doesn't appear to be a US hospital, but rather a UK hospital (correct me if I am wrong) let me just say you don't have the experience in healthcare especially US health care to state things like this. From what your saying, you did volunteer work and have no health care degree or training. I always disliked volunteers in critical situations. Ive seen them giving NPO patients juice and water even or the other fun one, they hear a patient needs a BP so they grab a cuff and decide to take it for us and what do ya know, they took the BP over the top of a pick line now we have a bloody mess.

[mokthraka]

You should probably look up what pre triage means.

[Memphis]

You should probably look up what pre triage means.

I take it your not familiar with what it is, because I certainly am. He says he shadowed doctors, did not confirm he was an RN or anything else, and said he participated in pre triage. What does that mean, does that mean that while he was shadowing/volunteering he participated in pre triage, was responsible for pre triage? You see, hes being vague.

[Rigby]

if the nurse DID give him the inhaler then died, the nurse would have done hard time in prison due to not following the rules. Damned if you do, damned if you dont

Why would the nurse have died, and why would they put her body in prison?

[mokthraka]

I take it your not familiar with what it is, because I certainly am. He says he shadowed doctors, did not confirm he was an RN or anything else, and said he participated in pre triage. What does that mean, does that mean that while he was shadowing/volunteering he participated in pre triage, was responsible for pre triage? You see, hes being vague.

yeah, but you said you arent familiar with that hospital....

[Memphis]

yeah, but you said you arent familiar with that hospital....

Yeah, because its in the UK, but certain medical vocabulary are universal. That said, hes trying to comment on an American nurse and her job with the opinion and possibly legalities of the UK. In the united states, practically every state handles these kinds of things in the same method. But the UK is not the US and comparing regulations and rules of nursing handed down by an American BON to the UK system is erroneous.

[M_Lyons10]

That is just unbelievable. I can understand wanting this form signed, but in an emergency situation, aren't you supposed to address the most pressing issue first? His not breathing for example... THEN worry about the form? And do you mean to tell me that he started having an asthma attack and she then went to check to see if they had the signed form first before doing anything? This is just egregious irresponsibility. I hope the nurse and the school lose the case.

[zeke009]

The mother should have signed the proper forms. Kids can die from aspirin if they have a certain genetic makeup, so if they are given aspirin by the school, for certain symptoms that would suggest they needed aspirin, but they die, you are saying the school shouldn't be held accountable? I just use that one example as there are so many to consider.

It has nothing to do with being PC and everything to do with people taking responsibility for their kids and their safety and not expecting the school to make life decisions without parent's consent and written permission.

The simple fact is that the kid is still alive.

True, but you don't need a damn release form to call 911. Locking the door and watching through the window? What is that nurse, some kind of sadist who gets off on watching kids suffer?

[Memphis]

That is just unbelievable. I can understand wanting this form signed, but in an emergency situation, aren't you supposed to address the most pressing issue first? His not breathing for example... THEN worry about the form? And do you mean to tell me that he started having an asthma attack and she then went to check to see if they had the signed form first before doing anything? This is just egregious irresponsibility. I hope the nurse and the school lose the case.

I don't think you are familiar with a handy little device known as a O2 SAT. I am willing to bet she was in no hurry, because he pulled about 90% O2, Their is also a chance she had him use a spirometer. Also, since the school didn't fire her and defended her I can practically guarantee the above.

[Rippleman]

im sure his doctor wrote him a perscription that would kill him.

i didn't mean it like that, but you can still die from an asthma attack even when using your inhaler. I had asthma from age 8-18 then it just faded away. I still get it if i am around A LOT of cats/dogs or if I am doing something physically demanding in cold weather.

[mokthraka]

i didn't mean it like that, but you can still die from an asthma attack even when using your inhaler. I had asthma from age 8-18 then it just faded away. I still get it if i am around A LOT of cats/dogs or if I am doing something physically demanding in cold weather.

dogs and cats would be allergies...

I wish I had a dog growing up. my mom always told me i was allergic to them. Im not at all :(

[Rippleman]

dogs and cats would be allergies...

I wish I had a dog growing up. my mom always told me i was allergic to them. Im not at all :(

they are a trigger with me...

[Memphis]

they are a trigger with me...

This nurses from the nursing forums I participate in said it better than me.

I apologize in advance if this posting is too long. I live in the county next to the one this occured in. I am also an elementary school nurse. The FL State Dept. of Health works with the schools in creating a clear protocol for medication administration. Students are not allowed to carry inhalers, period, unless the parent has signed an authorization for the school to administer it, and the MD has authorized it. Otherwise, the inhaler is brought to the clinic by the parent in the original box the Rx is on, and they sign a consent. The Rx is considered a doctor's order. If there is no Rx label on the box, there is no way for the nurse to know if he is truly supposed to have the med, or did he take it off Uncle Fred's dresser. And yes, that has happened. It addition, there is no route, no time, no dose, etc that every MD order must have.

Therefore the nurse can't give it. That is the law! This is made clear in the student handbooks signed by both the parent and student at the beginning of each school year. It is also clearly spelled out in each individual school's web sites. It is also explained to parents if they bother to call and ask. Students have been known, in the past, to carry inhalers, not tell anyone, but then play around with it and let their friends try it out with unintended consequences. Believe me, it has happened in my district!

I watched the news story several times. I saw it and was astonished. First, as I understand it, there were no, repeat no signs of any respiratory distress. There was none observed by the nurse, nor was it observed by any other witness in the school that was there at the time. He was sitting in the administrator's office waiting until his mother came. Does anyone seriously think that a nurse, administrator, and anyone else in the office who even thought they something wrong would not have called 911 if it was needed? Second, the school found the inhaler in his backpack during a security check. He wasn't trying to get it out and use it. It was found. The school did not know he had it. There is no order on file for it. The school called the parent, and they were on the way.

The nurse followed the protocol, the law, and the Nurse Practice Act. Is it not drilled into our heads since Day 1 in nursing school that you do not give medications to anyone without a doctor's order? And yet, the nurses name and schools name have been dragged through the mud. Now the parents plan to sue the nurse, and the school district. Of course. And their attorneys comment? "even if it was the law, the law needs to be changed". And changing the law starts at the expense of this girl's livelihood, and the school's reputation? I do not know the circumstances of what lead up to the student supposedly being locked out of the clinic. I'm sure I'll hear it and whether it's the truth or not, we'll never know.

I'll just end this by saying I am sick, sick, sick to death of parents like these. All school nurses know exactly what I mean when I say every school has them. The ones that couldn't be bothered to spend 5 minutes filling out paperwork. The ones who have no clue about what really happened, but go shooting their mouths off without knowing the facts. And the lawyers who latch on to the nuts in the name of "justice" but it's really just lining their pockets that matters. I've had kindergarteners bring in needles from Dad's supply. I've had kids bring in liquids and pills, ear drops, eye drops and insulin/syringes that their parents told them to give me. Does anybody think about what could happen if the inhaler, or pill, or syringe gets into the wrong hands? And these parents have brains?

All I can think is, this could have been me. It's just blowing my mind. This could have been me.

Another Nurse chimes in.

Parents need to take some responsibility for their children. If you know your child has a medical condition, and may require meds for it, FOLLOW THE SCHOOL PROTOCOLS! Jump through all the hoops, for the sake of your child! This could have been avoided if the parent had submitted the required info to the school. You can bet that if my child had important PRN meds ordered by their md, I'd make sure the school had whatever they needed to be able to administer it! Why wait for something like this to happen?!

If it were me in this particular situation, I'd go ahead and call 911. If the student is truly in need, I am covered. If, however, he was being dramatic to prove a point about having his inhaler taken away, so be it. (I have a sneaking suspicion that the student was angry that his inhaler was taken away, and coincidentally had this "attack". Not unlike when the kids at my school become curious about my eyewash station, and suddenly feel as if they "have something in their eye" so they need to try it...). Now his parents can deal with the unnecessary ER visit. Unfortunately, there are plenty of kids that would pull a stunt like this.

I am just happy that the school and district are backing the nurse. That is refreshing in this day and age.

Blaming the nurse is the easy and safe route and allows one to read a story like this and put no critical thought into it.

[Southern Patriot]

The mother should have signed the proper forms. Kids can die from aspirin if they have a certain genetic makeup, so if they are given aspirin by the school, for certain symptoms that would suggest they needed aspirin, but they die, you are saying the school shouldn't be held accountable? I just use that one example as there are so many to consider.

You are ignoring the fact that the student had the inhaler in his possession along with his name on the label. That is a very different situation than the school giving a student an over the counter medication for a headache, etc. The very fact that the school required any additional form in this case is idiotic.

[Rippleman]

.... think about it for a sec.. the kid WHO HAD THE INHALER IN HIS LOCKER and didn't use it on his own? why not?

[mudslag]

.... think about it for a sec.. the kid WHO HAD THE INHALER IN HIS LOCKER and didn't use it on his own? why not?

Someone didn't read the story.

[Rippleman]

Someone didn't read the story.

yes i did and re-read it just now. It was in his locker which is IN his possession. Sounds like he wanted to make a scene by intentionally NOT using it on his own accord.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

yes i did and re-read it just now. It was in his locker which is IN his possession. Sounds like he wanted to make a scene by intentionally NOT using it on his own accord.

you obviously DIDN'T read the article, it says that the inhaler was taken from his locker and they wouldn't give it back to him when he had the asthma attack

[mudslag]

yes i did and re-read it just now. It was in his locker which is IN his possession. Sounds like he wanted to make a scene by intentionally NOT using it on his own accord.

ummm

He said the school dean found his inhaler during a search of his locker last Friday. The inhaler was still in its original packaging -- complete with his name and directions for its use; however, the school took it away because his mother hadn't signed the proper form for him to have it.

[Rigby]

yes i did and re-read it just now. It was in his locker which is IN his possession. Sounds like he wanted to make a scene by intentionally NOT using it on his own accord.

Not only did you not read the article (the school found it in his locker and took it away from him) but do you really think he would endure pain and suffering and risk of death just to make a scene? Wow...