Neowin Linux Poll  

59 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you be interested in making this idea a reality?

    • Yes
      27
    • No
      32
  2. 2. Would you be interested in using / modifying Neowin's former Linux project "Shift"?

    • Yes
      25
    • No
      28
    • Null Vote
      6


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:D If we did it, what programming experience would be nice to have? C, C++, .NET? someone on the first page suggested building Mono into the distro itself - that would be neat to see, and I'd totally help make the .NET apps for it. Maybe someone want to fork Linux on Github and then start working on it? How would we do it - build everything from scratch, or use some preexisting technologies (like X.Org or something) and some scratch? Again, if you guys would build Mono into it as early in the development as possible, then I'm sure a lot of people would work on software to come included (:

No we wouldn't be forking linux on github, that'd be to change the kernel and unless you've got a large team of master coders that are going to work on it free of charge...

Not sure about including mono out-the-box, from what I remember (might be wrong) you need to get Novell's permission to do that as they own it, but it can be installed as an extra or something?

You couldn't use SuSE as a base as it's not allowed under their terms of use.

I personally wouldn't go with anything big or clunky like ubuntu, suse, etc. but something minimalistic like slack, arch, gentoo, etc.

oh, and why no SuSE love? is it harder to customize/base new Linux off/etc. or does everyone here just hate it? :p

No, I find SuSE an absolute bloatware! :(

Honestly whenever i have tried it, has given me headaches. So please don't consider this trolling, instead a personal choice.

+1 Arch .. I think its perfect to do what we are trying here.

Anyone thinking of LFS ;)

I'd be interested in helping out, most of my coding knowledge is in C#/VB, so if we could get mono working oob I'd feel right at home, helping write apps. However I have a very basic working knowledge of C++ so I can do very basic things if need be, or learn as I go. so if we did want to make a full set of Neowin apps.. I'd be down.

I had a look at licensing for Mono, well according to Wikipedia anyway, it should be okay.

Apparently the ubuntu technical team had a look and saw no real reason it couldn't be included.

Firey, any sort of experience would be beneficial really, but then again we still need to get/find a project manager first. A set of Neowin apps, does sound like an interesting idea however :D

No we wouldn't be forking linux on github, that'd be to change the kernel and unless you've got a large team of master coders that are going to work on it free of charge...

Not sure about including mono out-the-box, from what I remember (might be wrong) you need to get Novell's permission to do that as they own it, but it can be installed as an extra or something?

You couldn't use SuSE as a base as it's not allowed under their terms of use.

I personally wouldn't go with anything big or clunky like ubuntu, suse, etc. but something minimalistic like slack, arch, gentoo, etc.

thanks (:

No, I find SuSE an absolute bloatware! :(

Honestly whenever i have tried it, has given me headaches. So please don't consider this trolling, instead a personal choice.

intriguing, I've always considered openSUSE to be a nice distro of Linux...but then again idk that much about Linux distros :D

intriguing, I've always considered openSUSE to be a nice distro of Linux...but then again idk that much about Linux distros :D

It definitely is a nice bit of kit, but it does come with a LOT of stuff. Plus as was mentioned earlier, their ToU says its a no-no.

It definitely is a nice bit of kit, but it does come with a LOT of stuff. Plus as was mentioned earlier, their ToU says its a no-no.

Stocker, Why don't you be the project manager?

LFS could be a good idea actually. I suppose that way you would get 100% control over everything

One problem I see with LFS is that we will have to do a lot more work than really is necessary. I once tried building a LFS on a virtual machine and took about a day to get it just compiled.

Stocker, Why don't you be the project manager?

One problem I see with LFS is that we will have to do a lot more work than really is necessary. I once tried building a LFS on a virtual machine and took about a day to get it just compiled.

Thanks :) I would be interested definitely, I just haven't a project together like this before, so don't want to be a complete and utter nooblet :D Its up to everyone else really.

And regarding the LFS compile, ha yep I've heard of it taking ages :D

One problem I see with LFS is that we will have to do a lot more work than really is necessary. I once tried building a LFS on a virtual machine and took about a day to get it just compiled.

I tried LFS as well, and it is hard. But I'd like to learn it one day. It'd be cool if the project manager went that route, or used an Arch or Debian base.

Thanks :) I would be interested definitely, I just haven't a project together like this before, so don't want to be a complete and utter nooblet :D Its up to everyone else really.

And regarding the LFS compile, ha yep I've heard of it taking ages :D

+1 for Stocker as project manager! :)

I really REALLY don't want to be a party popper. Im totally confident that you all are capable of doing something great but consider this: Why another distro? Linux/GNU is already fragmented as it is.

Instead I think it could be more beneficial for both this project (and everyone involved with it) and the community if you develop not a distro but an app suite for Linux. Think about it. Something unique, something useful that can enhance everyone's experience, not just the couple of hobbyist that will play with this new distro. Something made in Vala or QT.

That's how Elementary OS started.

I really REALLY don't want to be a party popper. Im totally confident that you all are capable of doing something great but consider this: Why another distro? Linux/GNU is already fragmented as it is.

Instead I think it could be more beneficial for both this project (and everyone involved with it) and the community if you develop not a distro but an app suite for Linux. Think about it. Something unique, something useful that can enhance everyone's experience, not just the couple of hobbyist that will play with this new distro. Something made in Vala or QT.

That's how Elementary OS started.

I understand where you are coming from, but for me its just a experience in hand crafting something that can be used by other people. I would love for it to become very popular because of us having something different, but everything has to start somewhere. Its just getting the ideas together from the people that will make this project into a usable form and go from there really.

+1 for Stocker as project manager! :)

Stop it, I'm blushing :D

I really REALLY don't want to be a party popper. Im totally confident that you all are capable of doing something great but consider this: Why another distro? Linux/GNU is already fragmented as it is.

Instead I think it could be more beneficial for both this project (and everyone involved with it) and the community if you develop not a distro but an app suite for Linux. Think about it. Something unique, something useful that can enhance everyone's experience, not just the couple of hobbyist that will play with this new distro. Something made in Vala or QT.

That's how Elementary OS started.

What do you have in mind!? What kind of app-suite?

App suite would require hardcore programmers.

And anyway, there's things that need fixing in gnome etc. that they won't bother with if you just submit an idea or patch as an individual but if a group submitted it, they'd take seriously.

LFS isn't an overly bad idea, what about distcc? Got under-utilised servers and PCs here I could cross compile with, guessing others do too so we could split up things to compile, get them compiled, package them and put them somewhere for everyone else to access?

App suite would require hardcore programmers.

And anyway, there's things that need fixing in gnome etc. that they won't bother with if you just submit an idea or patch as an individual but if a group submitted it, they'd take seriously.

LFS isn't an overly bad idea, what about distcc? Got under-utilised servers and PCs here I could cross compile with, guessing others do too so we could split up things to compile, get them compiled, package them and put them somewhere for everyone else to access?

App suite would require hardcore programmers.

And anyway, there's things that need fixing in gnome etc. that they won't bother with if you just submit an idea or patch as an individual but if a group submitted it, they'd take seriously.

LFS isn't an overly bad idea, what about distcc? Got under-utilised servers and PCs here I could cross compile with, guessing others do too so we could split up things to compile, get them compiled, package them and put them somewhere for everyone else to access?

distcc looks pretty good!

App suite would require hardcore programmers.

And anyway, there's things that need fixing in gnome etc. that they won't bother with if you just submit an idea or patch as an individual but if a group submitted it, they'd take seriously.

LFS isn't an overly bad idea, what about distcc? Got under-utilised servers and PCs here I could cross compile with, guessing others do too so we could split up things to compile, get them compiled, package them and put them somewhere for everyone else to access?

Ok, before we start thinking about compiling, won't it be wise to figure out what needs to done so that our distro is better than others?

Ok, before we start thinking about compiling, won't it be wise to figure out what needs to done so that our distro is better than others?

We need to set a date and time, and get on somewhere like irc/skype/msn and smash out some details and ideas. Whens everyone free?

LFS or Arch as a basis would be overcomplicating things. I would suggest Debian 'Wheezy' as basis - the current Testing, which has only yesterday been frozen in preparation for the release of Debian 7.0.

Use GNOME 3.4 (default in Wheezy) as basis for the UI, enhance it with extensions - or write your own. Then go from there by creating Neowin-specific branding, web-apps and maybe some native apps.

There are still enough technical issues to tackle with Debian as a basis. Setting up a repository for example, carefully choosing the default apps, figuring out licensing issues for the various components... you get the idea.

What do you have in mind!? What kind of app-suite?

Just from the top of my head. With this list I'm considering what most users think Linux lack/need to be taken more seriously:

A desktop publishing suite with a easy to use GUI yet with a comprehensive set of options.

An ACTUALLY GOOD office suite.

A set of tools, add ons, patches (or code optimizations) and even new paradigms for a mainstream windows and desktop manager.

A professional looking business suite with a Sparrow like mail client, iCal like calendar, product database, etc.

A design suite with standardized GUI and controls.

All of this has already a solid open-source code base out there (Scribe, LibreOffice, GIMP, Darktable, Mozilla foundation, Matte, Cinnamon, etc) so you don't start from scratch. "All" you need is code refinement and GUI reimplementations.

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    • The quantum search for Time's origin had an equally mind-boggling conclusion by Sayan Sen Image by Steve Johnson via Pexels A theoretical study from researchers at the University of Surrey suggested that the direction of time may not be fundamentally fixed in certain quantum systems. The work, published in Scientific Reports, examined how the “arrow of time” could emerge from microscopic physics and found that time-reversal symmetry can remain intact even in models used to describe processes such as energy loss and thermalisation. The arrow of time refers to the observed one-way direction from past to future in everyday life. In macroscopic processes, this is easy to see. Spilled milk spreads across a table and does not gather back into a glass, and heat flows from hotter objects to colder ones. These processes shape the common sense idea that time moves in a single direction. However, at the level of fundamental physics, many equations do not prefer a direction of time. Time-reversal symmetry means that the same physical laws can describe a system whether time moves forward or backward. This has made it difficult to explain why irreversible behaviour appears in the large-scale world even when the underlying rules do not require it. Dr Andrea Rocco, Associate Professor in Physics and Mathematical Biology at the University of Surrey, described this contrast: "One way to explain this is when you look at a process like spilt milk spreading across a table, it's clear that time is moving forward. But if you were to play that in reverse, like a movie, you'd immediately know something was wrong – it would be hard to believe milk could just gather back into a glass. However, there are processes, such as the motion of a pendulum, that look just as believable in reverse. The puzzle is that, at the most fundamental level, the laws of physics resemble the pendulum; they do not account for irreversible processes. Our findings suggest that while our common experience tells us that time only moves one way, we are just unaware that the opposite direction would have been equally possible." The study focused on open quantum systems, which are quantum systems that interact with a surrounding environment. This environment, often described as a heat bath, can exchange energy and information with the system. The researchers used this framework to study how a direction of time might appear even when the underlying physics does not enforce one. A key part of the analysis involved the Markov approximation. This is a simplification used in many models where the system is assumed not to retain memory of its past states. The idea is that changes depend only on the current state, not on earlier history. This is commonly used when studying thermalisation, which is the process where a system settles into equilibrium with its environment. The study also used concepts such as master equations, including the Lindblad and Pauli equations, which describe how probabilities of different quantum states change over time. Another related model discussed was quantum Brownian motion, which describes the random-like movement of a quantum particle interacting continuously with its environment. In these descriptions, a “memory kernel” can appear, which is a mathematical term that accounts for how past states influence current behaviour. The researchers found that applying the Markov approximation did not break time-reversal symmetry. Even when the system interacted with an effectively infinite heat bath, the resulting equations of motion remained symmetric in time. This meant that the same mathematical description could, in principle, run forward or backward in time without contradiction. The study further showed that standard frameworks used in open quantum systems, including quantum Brownian motion and master equations like the Lindblad and Pauli forms, could be written in a time-symmetric way. These equations are typically used to describe processes that look irreversible, such as dissipation and thermalisation, but the results suggested they can also be interpreted as allowing evolution in both time directions. Thomas Guff, Research Fellow in Quantum Thermodynamics, said: "The surprising part of this project was that even after making the standard simplifying assumption to our equations describing open quantum systems, the equations still behaved the same way whether the system was moving forwards or backwards in time. When we carefully worked through the maths, we found that this behaviour had to be the case because a key part of the equation, the "memory kernel," is symmetrical in time. We also found a small but important detail which is usually overlooked – a time discontinuous factor emerged that kept the time-symmetry property intact. It’s unusual to see such a mathematical mechanism in a physics equation because it's not continuous, and it was very surprising to see it appear so naturally." The researchers also noted that deriving a one-way arrow of time from time-reversal symmetric microscopic dynamics remains an open problem across fields such as thermodynamics, statistical mechanics, particle physics, and cosmology. Their results suggested that some standard descriptions of irreversible behaviour in open quantum systems may be better understood using a time-symmetric formulation of Markovianity. According to the study, processes such as thermalisation, which are usually treated as irreversible, could in theory be described in a way that allows evolution in either time direction under the same rules. 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    • A bit premature... 100% Marketing. Bizarre.
    • A $300 price hike is insane! No one is going to want to pay that much!
    • Since the 1st one flopped, there is really no reason to make another one. It's just losing money left and right.
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