windows 8 Do you like or hate Windows 8?

[xWhiplash]

Oh, I noticed that. But what if you're old-school and have a keyboard without volume up/down keys? I can't find a way to trigger that interface using the mouse.

Not only that, but sometimes if you do not have the right drivers installed for it, the volume keys do not work. I hate volume controls on the keyboard.

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Judging by the recent shenanigans, it's going to be an OS people will love to hate!

As for me, of course, I love it! It's the latest code from the great Microsoft!

[Yazoo]

Windows 8 is Windows ME/Vista. I'll pass till their next proper release and then only when Windows 7 is dead in the water.

[syncore]

Spend some time tweaking it and it's almost exactly like Windows 7. But of course that would require work and heaven forbid that, so now I understand all the whining.

[Dot Matrix]

Macs do not need to change to stay afloat. Apple does not proivide $300 systems like dell that are suited for grandma and grandpa. They provide computers built for professional work, that can cost thousands of dollars. I am not saying Dell or anybody else do not have computers like these. I am just saying Apple computers are mostly geared toward professionals than a $300 dell is.

As of right now, Apple knows that you cannot make a tablet type interface on the desktop. Touch screens on the desktop DO NOT WORK. Period.

I will get out of the IT industry if I am forced to program using a touch screen. It will make my arms hurt having them up in the air 8 hours a day.

Keyboard and mouse are...not....going...anywhere. The only next step would have computers read our minds. But a touch screen on a desktop WILL NOT WORK.

My neck hurts after using my iPad for over an hour.

Also, can Windows 8 lovers please stop telling us "We just hate change"? We do not. I have upgraded to the latest OS of any of my systems (OS X, Windows, and Ubuntu) the week the next one came out. I never wait until a few patches or even a service pack. When the OS is out, I get it that same week. So please, do not tell me I simply hate change with this OS.

I welcomed the changes each Windows, Ubuntu, and OS X brought in. Windows 8 is the first OS of THESE THREE GROUPS that I simply hate because of the way they treated us Desktop users.

I tried it, I did not like it. I stated my reasons. What do you want me (and others) to do? Use it for months until we are comfortable with it? No thanks. I can get my work I GET PAID FOR done much faster in Windows 7.

Change is coming to the Mac. Lion is proof of that.

[xWhiplash]

Spend some time tweaking it and it's almost exactly like Windows 7. But of course that would require work and heaven forbid that, so now I understand all the whining.

No it is not. I use so many programs that I simply cannot pin everything to my taskbar. Thus, I am in my current Start menu quite a bit every day. I do not want that full screen mess to be constantly in my face instead of a nice, small, organized by default menu.

And no I cannot simply install a 3rd party program and be done with it.

[.Neo]

Change is coming to the Mac. Lion is proof of that.

Change is very gradual though in OS X instead of constantly going for a shock effect. Because OS X releases are more frequent user feedback can be incorporated more quickly. Something we've seen happening with OS X Mountain Lion. So far there's been no indication the current OS X desktop experience will radically change anytime soon.

[xWhiplash]

Change is very gradual though instead of shocks. People are being eased into it.

Plus, there is no indication as to launchpad completely taking over the standard desktop in OS X. Is there an article somewhere saying OS X 10.9 will have launchpad as a requirement?

So they are bringing a few things from iOS over to OS X. That does not mean they will force launchpad on us.

[Dot Matrix]

You'd think it would have been easy to increase interface differentiation. Make the Home Premium edition more grandma/grandpa friendly, while retaining the Pro/Enterprise versions as productivity-centric. But no, they decided to shove Metro down everyone's throats...

The only problem with that, is then you create TWO different Enterprise user experiences, and operating environments. Twice the work for your company to maintain for one OS.

I do not want that full screen mess to be constantly in my face instead of a nice, small, organized by default menu.

The Windows 7 Start Menu is far from organized.

[Vice]

Change is coming to the Mac. Lion is proof of that.

Yeah, positive change. Apple knows how to integrate their iOS features with OS X.

Notification Centre

iMessage

Reminders

Notes

iWork cloud syncing between OS X iWork and iOS iWork

Improved Mail which follows the iPad Mail layout

These are some of the changes in OS X that are direct ports of features from iOS and they all work great because they don't try to be touch enabled apps running on a desktop class operating system. Their interfaces have all been adjusted for a finite pointing device (the mouse) and integrated in to the traditional desktop. They fit in perfectly, they work well and are easy to use with our traditional workflows.

Let me take one example, iMessage. This is a great app that lets me IM other Macs, iPads, iPhones and iPod Touches. If I want to send my friend a picture or a video as an example I can go to my Finder and drag the file in to the window and they are then sent the file.

Now lets contrast that with Microsofts implementation of a messaging platform in Metro. How can I drag a file from Explorer in to the Messenger inside Metro? - I can't because the two interfaces are completely separate and performing such an action just isn't possible. This is a result of poor planning and execution on Microsofts part and thus the OS feels inconsistent and confused.

And even worse from what I know right now you can't even drag files from one Metro app to another Metro app let alone from the desktop to Metro. Again you may say well that isn't what Metro is for, you should use the desktop if you want to move files around. Well you know what? Apple managed to give us the best of iOS and make it all work the way we expect. Microsoft haven't been able to deliver that with Windows 8.

[.Neo]

Plus, there is no indication as to launchpad completely taking over the standard desktop in OS X. Is there an article somewhere saying OS X 10.9 will have launchpad as a requirement?

So they are bringing a few things from iOS over to OS X. That does not mean they will force launchpad on us.

Dot Matrix just hopes Mac users will end up in the exact boat as Windows users. As of yet that isn't happening.

[PGHammer]

Win7 was a blessing from what I experienced from Vista. Here's an problem I see. Windows8 seems to have been built more for tablets than the desktop. To me, there's no logical explanation for the change to the metro UI. I've read threads whereby Win8 boots directly to the Metro UI. The Metro interface was already designed for tablets.

I could care less about touchscreens, tablets and all the new fancy stuff. Windows is a Pc centric OS.Now it seems that windows is trying to be "everything to everybody" and this might lead to "being nothing to anybody."

Tablets - whether we realize it or not - *are* becoming part of the general computing space; notebooks and laptops (which share the same resolution foibles as tablets) have been there since XP (in terms of general usage). WinRT (as an API) is actually a better fit for all of these types of devices than on the desktop. So is the criticism of WinRT that it is a bad fit for *all* of computing, 20" or larger-screen computing, or is the change just too much for you to wrap your head around?

I've been trying to point out that the same reasons why WinRT (admittedly) has issues on desktops make it a better fit on portables (including notebooks and traditional laptops - not just touch-screen tablets and slates, as the critics would have us believe). Notebooks, laptops, tablets and slates are *all* severely lacking in screen real-estate compared to desktop PCs - which is why I see all of portable computing - not just tablets or slates - as fertile for WinRT.

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .]

Now lets contrast that with Microsofts implementation of a messaging platform in Metro. How can I drag a file from Explorer in to the Messenger inside Metro? - I can't because the two interfaces are completely separate and performing such an action just isn't possible. This is a result of poor planning and execution on Microsofts part and thus the OS feels inconsistent and confused.

[. . .]

The problem here is that you're trying to use the same method you've always used (the traditional way of working) in the new Windows 8 "Metro" experience, which doesn't make sense, because, as you know, Microsoft completely changed the workflow.

Why would you consider the old method when you know it isn't possible, rather than considering the new method? With the new method, you click on the button that allows you to attach the file and select the file from the File Picker. It's just as quick and just as easy; the only difference is that to some of us, it's a more enjoyable experience on a desktop :)

[Vice]

The problem here is that you're trying to use the same method you've always used (the traditional way of working) in the new Windows 8 "Metro" experience, which doesn't make sense, because, as you know, Microsoft completely changed the workflow.

Why would you consider the old method when you know it isn't possible, rather than considering the new method? With the new method, you click on the button that allows you to attach the file and select the file from the File Picker. It's just as quick and just as easy; the only difference is that to some of us, it's a more enjoyable experience on a desktop :)

Because the old method is faster and superior? Duh. Just because it's older doesn't mean it's poorer. Why don't cars all use bicycle handles instead of steering wheels, I mean steering wheels are pretty old now.

[.Neo]

Because the old method is faster and superior? Duh. Just because it's older doesn't mean it's poorer. Why don't cars all use bicycle handles instead of steering wheels, I mean steering wheels are pretty old now.

Obviously all the car makers are wrong Vice. As you should have learned by now from Windows 8, something newer is always better.

[Calum Veteran]

Because the old method is faster and superior? Duh. Just because it's older doesn't mean it's poorer. Why don't cars all use bicycle handles instead of steering wheels, I mean steering wheels are pretty old now.

"Duh"? I stated that I believe the new method is just as fast, so your use of "Duh" doesn't make sense. It's just as fast for me. I haven't ever suggested that something is better just because it's newer.

[Vice]

Obviously all the car makers are wrong Vice. As you should have learned by now from Windows 8, something newer is always better.

Silly me.

"Duh"? I stated that I believe the new method is just as fast, so your use of "Duh" doesn't make sense. It's just as fast for me. I haven't ever suggested that something is better just because it's newer.

Seriously I don't know how anyone could be for Metros methods. I can have a picture editor open in one window and an IM window open in another window and I can just drag pictures from left to right. No need to save, switch app, open an import dialogue window, navigate to where I saved the photo from the first app.

Seriously stop apologizing for these poor decisions. Also Apple allows both methods. Drag & Drop and an open button to import media. It pleases people like you and people like me. Microsoft? Just people like you. For a company that gets lambasted for not offering choice (Apple) they sure are doing a better job of it than Microsoft right now. I mean heck, I can even drag the Launch Pad out of my dock and never use it but I'm forced to use Metro on Windows 8 every time I start up my computer, install a new app, want to launch something I've not pinned yet etc

I really don't know what else to say about this OS it's an unmitigated failure in every way. I remember apologizers first started saying (around CP) that we would have a Metro off switch and Microsoft wasn't that stupid and we shouldn't be commenting negatively on a Consumer Preview. And now we are at RTM and nothing has changed except the apologizers rhetoric and now it's deal with it, you're a dinosaur the way you have used your computer is wrong. Based on what? Microsofts ambition to take on the iPad haha

[.Neo]

Silly me.

Indeed. I expected so much more from you. :no:

[+Warwagon MVC]

No it is not. I use so many programs that I simply cannot pin everything to my taskbar.

Sure you can, just lift up the taskbar and make it bigger. Then It will hold all your applications :laugh: . Your point is my point exactly. Everyone keeps saying oh you can pin everything to your taskbar. Which is why they must like Metro to begin with because they really can pin every application they use to their taskbar.

[PGHammer]

Change is very gradual though in OS X instead of constantly going for a shock effect. Because OS X releases are more frequent user feedback can be incorporated more quickly. Something we've seen happening with OS X Mountain Lion. So far there's been no indication the current OS X desktop experience will radically change anytime soon.

Apple has, in fact, gone out of its way to ensure that OS X does not face competition, directly or even indirectly. While the price of the software is low, the price of the hardware is not - the inverse - and deliberately so - of the Windows Model.

Windows, on the other hand, IS facing competition, and especially from Android. Microsoft has to deal with Android as a competitor, which is why the change in Windows with Windows 8 is far more rapid than folks expect (despite how in-your-face Android devices are, and especially as the economy has gotten worse). One Neowinian made reference to exactly that - he said that in India, price is becoming a greater factor in terms of computers - both hardware and software; why is it any different anywhere else?

Android itself is finishing up a re-merge of their original smartphone/tablet forking of Android 2.x (the smartphone fork) and 3.x (the fork for everything else). Basically, they are admitting that their own fork attempt is a failure, and are using the resulting code merger to come after Windows basically head-on. Not just in the phone/device space, but in the portable space.

Lastly, there is Windows itself. Windows has *always* been a general-purpose/multipurpoase graphical desktop environment, and later, a graphical general-purpose/multipurpose operating system - it's never really been a niche product at the core. It's why I see any attempt to niche-ify or specialize Windows to be received like most attempts to do so - doomed to failure. Those that are criticizing Windows 8 are (or at least should be) quite aware of that, which leads me to wonder why they insist on giving such poor (historically) advice.

[.Neo]

In what way is Windows on the desktop facing competition from Android? I don't see it. Microsoft could have done the exact same thing as Apple: Keep Windows where it belongs, on notebooks and desktops. Then introduce a second operating system that specializes in touch screen devices such as mobile phones and tablets. Have a fresh start.

[BajiRav]

In what way is Windows on the desktop facing competition from Android? I don't see it. Microsoft could have done the exact same thing as Apple: Keep Windows where it belongs, on notebooks and desktops. Then introduce a second operating system that specializes in touch screen devices such as mobile phones and tablets. Have a fresh start.

I guess in same fashion Apple likes to compare iPad shipments to total PC sales?

[windows95isg8]

I hate Windows 8, It's not the removal of the start menu so much but the fact that the system does not feel fluid to use anymore on my desktop. After going back to Windows 7, I find the system just looks and feels more like a real OS should do. I can see from a lot of posts about what things Windows 8 brings to the table, but these changes really don't warrant the upgrade to a poorly put together OS, made by all accounts to catch up on the tablet market. I don't have a tablet, and I have no interested in getting one, So why force a touch interface on a operating system that has been all about keyboard and mouse usage for years without any issue?

[xWhiplash]

The only problem with that, is then you create TWO different Enterprise user experiences, and operating environments. Twice the work for your company to maintain for one OS.

The Windows 7 Start Menu is far from organized.

You have got to be kidding me. Every program I have ever installed on Windows 7 has put it in a nice folder and it becomes nicely organized. They even put 5 website shortcuts in a sub-folder labeled Support.

Maybe if you install some random open source software it becomes unorganized.

[.Neo]

I guess in same fashion Apple likes to compare iPad shipments to total PC sales?

That has nothing to do with the operating system it actually runs. Microsoft could just as well go head on with Apple and Google with a tablet OS of their own. There's no reason why it specifically had to be desktop Windows. It was probably just the quickest option.