Recommended Posts

Sigh. It's not about the 'launcher' aspect of the taskbar, it's about the task switching aspect. For me, having an overview of what Windows are opened at all times is essential to using my computer.

I'd be fine with Windows 8 if it'd just have an option to disable launching of any Metro environment apps. Aka opening anything from the start screen kicking you back to the desktop with regular Windows. That'd be a good compromise, and I sincerely hope I can disable all Metro applications by uninstalling them or blocking them with Group Policies.

I hope someone somewhere will find a way to hack it out but I'm starting to wonder.

Yeah I know, chooseing the default app when you first open a file after you install a new app that's capable of opening said file format is such a chore...

As long as there's more than one program able to launch a file format, the first time you launch it you will get a popup to pick your default app. and if you install a new app that supports it, the next time you open a file. you got it, same popup. Seems like a better solution than the old to me, and as long as you pick your default it won't open in Metro, you know as long as there's an alternative. Yeah if you haven't installed adobe reader, of course it's gonna open the pdf in the metro reader, there's nothing else that can open the file.

having a taskbar on metro is redundant when the new os is expected to be user friendly, intuitive and interactive. w8 was not designed to run old apps on old hardware, but to offer a new experience on new systems. so stop crying, stick with 7, mac, linux... whatever...

I definitely wish they would unify the task switching between Metro and the Desktop. That's my biggest annoyance with the current state of Windows 8. If I'm using a couple of Metro apps and a couple of Desktop apps, I have to use two different systems to switch between them.

A single taskbar/superbar that showed all running apps, desktop and metro, would fix that I think. Right now to go from a Metro app to a Desktop app, you have to first switch to the Desktop using the left-hand-side Metro Switcher, and then pick the desktop app you want from the taskbar.

I started out trying to use some of the Metro apps, but now I end up sticking with the desktop 95% of the time, just because it's such a pain to switch back and forth and keep track of what is open where.

I definitely wish they would unify the task switching between Metro and the Desktop. That's my biggest annoyance with the current state of Windows 8. If I'm using a couple of Metro apps and a couple of Desktop apps, I have to use two different systems to switch between them.

A single taskbar/superbar that showed all running apps, desktop and metro, would fix that I think. Right now to go from a Metro app to a Desktop app, you have to first switch to the Desktop using the left-hand-side Metro Switcher, and then pick the desktop app you want from the taskbar.

I started out trying to use some of the Metro apps, but now I end up sticking with the desktop 95% of the time, just because it's such a pain to switch back and forth and keep track of what is open where.

Alt-Tab switches between everything - Metro and Desktop.

Yep. So if Alt-Tab is unified and shows all running apps, why do the Metro Switcher and the Taskbar not show the same information?

Alt Tab runs under explorer Shell. the Superbar runs on the desktop which runs under explorer shell, and the Metro switcher runs under Metro which also runs under explorer shell in parallel with the desktop/superbar.

Basically the only one that sees all the running tasks is explorer and alt tab. Technically it wouldn't be impossible for them to add talk back api's that allowed explorer to report back to the underlying sub shells what's running, but I'd cause some inconsistencies since they use completely different ways to show what's running, so a lot of data would have to be sent back and forth internally slowing stuff down, from thumbnails to mini previews.

and from a design perspective they may simply want to separate the two as well. after all Metro apps don't actually run in the background, and desktop apps are always on the superbar anyway and if you use them you're likely to be on the desktop anyway, and mostly using the start screen purely an efficient launcher.

Design and usability issues aside, regarding this mockup, the Desktop is an app in Windows 8. The Start Screen is used to access apps, and it isn't merged with apps in this unusable way. If you'd like to access the Desktop or any of the apps you have running in the Desktop, you could either click the Desktop tile or press Ctrl+D on the keyboard. Many of us plan to use the Desktop as little as possible, too, so this wouldn't be a good idea for us.

Most of you here are trying to preserve the desktop UX as the main center of attention, when that won't work. If Microsoft wants to make Metro on Windows 8, than the different atmospheres should be kept separate, despite that many feel the switch between the two is jarring. Combining them wouldn't help, but cause more user frustration.

If you're keen to work on the desktop, remove the Metro apps from you system and pin your needed x64 apps to the dashboard. It doesn't matter if you boot to the desktop or Start Screen, your app can be launched regardless and take you where you need to be.

Also, this type of UX would not work on tablets or other touch machines for obvious reasons. Windows 8 is designed to be device neutral.

  • Like 2

Because wheres my wallpaper? I use my startscreen as an app launcher so my desktop can live free of icons.

Why have a desktop of disorganized icons when you can have something like this, alphabetized and one click away without minimizing everything.

start.jpg

Also, unless the start screen can completely replace the information that my rainmeter gives me, I don't see the reason behind a start menu taking the entire screen for the same information.

Why have a desktop of disorganized icons when you can have something like this, alphabetized and one click away without minimizing everything.

start.jpg

Also, unless the start screen can completely replace the information that my rainmeter gives me, I don't see the reason behind a start menu taking the entire screen for the same information.

I'll take an organized metro start screen over that mess any day. far faster to open and launch any app than it is to open find app and click it without missing in that mess.

Why have a desktop of disorganized icons when you can have something like this, alphabetized and one click away without minimizing everything.

Also, unless the start screen can completely replace the information that my rainmeter gives me, I don't see the reason behind a start menu taking the entire screen for the same information.

I'll take an organized metro start screen over that mess any day. far faster to open and launch any app than it is to open find app and click it without missing in that mess.

I agree, that is a bit messy, and again, having a "mouse first, touch second" UX wouldn't work with touch screen devices. The market rejected Windows 7 on them, so there is no reason for Microsoft to continue down that path.

Most of you here are trying to preserve the desktop UX as the main center of attention, when that won't work. If Microsoft wants to make Metro on Windows 8, than the different atmospheres should be kept separate, despite that many feel the switch between the two is jarring. Combining them wouldn't help, but cause more user frustration.

It's not about preserving the desktop, it's about basic functionality. The taskbar is an excellent way to quickly switch between applications and unlike the Metro task switcher it isn't hidden - you can clearly see what it is you're trying to locate. I think the best approach would have been to have both Metro and desktop apps appear on the taskbar but auto-hide it when running Metro apps - that way simply moving your mouse to the bottom of the screen would allow you to quickly switch apps. And if the charm bar was touch only - it's useless on the desktop and search could be implemented elsewhere - then Microsoft wouldn't have needed to bother with the hot-corners, which are largely pointless. It's also about consistency. Why don't desktop apps appear in the Metro task switcher when it appears on the desktop? Why don't Metro and desktop apps recognise the same gestures, like Aero Snap? Why do some desktop settings - like network connections - appear in Metro sidebars while others don't?

Metro is bolted on with little consideration as to how desktop users operate their computers. I have a 30" screen and rarely run apps in fullscreen, instead using Aero Snap to run two apps side-by-side - Metro doesn't support that. And most Metro apps make appalling use of additional vertical resolution, typically leaving over 40% of my screen completely blank. I'd rather use that extra space to run an app that is actually of benefit to me. Microsoft has been quite arrogant with regards to the needs of desktop users. I like the concept of Metro but the implementation leaves a LOT to be desired.

I prefer the start screen to desktop shortcuts (and to what "start screen on the desktop" would be) because, since it?s really a popup menu of sorts, you can bring it up and click to open up a window on top of your existing window configuration without disturbing that. With desktop shortcuts, even if you use the Win-D shortcut, when you double-click on an icon it forgets your previous window configuration, so you have to manually restore everything. Another thing I like to do with the start screen is keep groups of shortcuts to folders and apps associated with activities or projects I?m working on. I can keep those groups off to the right most of the time, then easily move a whole group to the first page when I know I?ll be working on that for a while.

On the other hand, I find switching between programs to be cumbersome whenever I?m mixing and matching desktop and Metro style apps, and actually this is my biggest problem with Windows 8. First it sometimes takes a second to think whether you want a desktop or Metro style app, then if it?s a desktop app, I have to first switch to the desktop, then switch to the app itself. Even realizing which app you want to switch to can itself take a bit longer when you don?t have the taskbar with common and running apps right in front of you. Then switching to the desktop itself is cumbersome unless you happen to know a shortcut.

There are certainly some workarounds and shortcuts that help here. There?s alt-tab, although this is a bit wonky because since Metro style apps don?t follow the same manual lifecycle model that desktop apps do, you can never be sure if a given app that you haven?t used for a while will be there or not. For getting to the desktop quickly there?s Win-D, and there?s a nice and quick if obscure mouse method: Because ?Desktop? is always the initially highlighted item in the shortcut menu that pops up when you right-click on the Start tip in the lower left corner, you can always get to the desktop with the sequence ?move to lower-left, right-click, left-click? which once you?ve done it a few times you can do instantly without looking. I also benefit from a convention I?ve been applying to all my Windows 7 PCs for a while, which is to put some of my taskbar buttons in a specific consistent order and use the Win + shortcuts: I always have a web browser as Win-2, Visual Studio as Win-3, a media player as Win-4, OneNote as Win-6, etc. So I can continue using this method to get to these apps instantly even from Metro style apps. While these work for me, they feel too much like esoteric workarounds to work for most people.

Since Windows 7 I?d almost say rather than ?living in the desktop? I?ve been ?living in the taskbar? and even though I understand the reasons it?s a shame to have that nice unified place for launching, switching, closing, notifications, monitoring long-running tasks, taking quick actions, jumping to common destinations within apps, even file and program management (e.g. I can drag and drop common folders from jump lists into other apps) be shattered into pieces.

Ok, great, but how does this work on tablets?

(Hint: It doesn't)

That is the core problem that the current Windows 8 implementation of Metro exposes. This solution wouldn't be perfect on tablets and the existing Metro isn't perfect on PCs. The reality is, Microsoft should have tweaked Windows to run slightly different on tablets and desktops and not attempted to shoehorn the desktop into a tablet.

The best approach would have been toggling the current Metro experience automatically if the OS were to be running on a tablet and an experience similar to what has been posted here when run on a desktop. This has been the way device specific features have been historically implemented and it makes the most sense. You don't see the handwriting input panel on Windows 7 unless you have a touch screen, for instance.

Everyone here will endlessly argue UX enhancements and retractions, but the reality is that Microsoft isn't doing this for any reason other than hoping to get a solid foot into the tablet market. The hope is that a Metro first experience will force developers to embrace Metro in a deep fashion. Since Metro apps will work on the tablet and the desktop they'll be able to leverage the desktop in the tablet war for developer interest.

I think this is a very dangerous choice by Microsoft, but we'll see how this plays out...

  • Like 2
And if the charm bar was touch only - it's useless on the desktop and search could be implemented elsewhere - then Microsoft wouldn't have needed to bother with the hot-corners, which are largely pointless.

The charms are more or less the same with touch as they are with mouse, so they're just as useful/useless with one as with the other - it wouldn't make any sense to base their availability on input method.

The best approach would have been toggling the current Metro experience automatically if the OS were to be running on a tablet and an experience similar to what has been posted here when run on a desktop. This has been the way device specific features have been historically implemented and it makes the most sense. You don't see the handwriting input panel on Windows 7 unless you have a touch screen, for instance..

While this sounds great in theory, it means that people who are trained in how Windows 8 works (for example, they buy a tablet and learn all the gestures) have to retool their thinking for Windows 8 on desktop ("where's the Start Screen?" "why can't I pull up the charms?"). With Windows 8 unifying Metro on all devices, they will intuitively know how to operate both environments once they are trained in one.

For desktop Windows 8 users, they'll also know how to operate Windows 8 on tablet once they familiarize themselves. It's an uphill battle, and Microsoft's success entirely depends on whether the market is willing to adapt. But I'm confident that once Microsoft unifies all interfaces, there will be fewer tech support calls. Getting to that point will require work.

That is the core problem that the current Windows 8 implementation of Metro exposes. This solution wouldn't be perfect on tablets and the existing Metro isn't perfect on PCs. The reality is, Microsoft should have tweaked Windows to run slightly different on tablets and desktops and not attempted to shoehorn the desktop into a tablet.

The best approach would have been toggling the current Metro experience automatically if the OS were to be running on a tablet and an experience similar to what has been posted here when run on a desktop. This has been the way device specific features have been historically implemented and it makes the most sense. You don't see the handwriting input panel on Windows 7 unless you have a touch screen, for instance.

Everyone here will endlessly argue UX enhancements and retractions, but the reality is that Microsoft isn't doing this for any reason other than hoping to get a solid foot into the tablet market. The hope is that a Metro first experience will force developers to embrace Metro in a deep fashion. Since Metro apps will work on the tablet and the desktop they'll be able to leverage the desktop in the tablet war for developer interest.

I think this is a very dangerous choice by Microsoft, but we'll see how this plays out...

No, they are not just leveraging the desktop. What they are doing is unifying platforms. Digital convergence. The idea is to be able to hop seamlessly from one device to the next, whether it be a desktop, laptop, tablet, convertible, or phone. You're ignoring the bigger picture - There's a method to Microsoft's madness.

Windows 8 is also intending to be device neutral. It doesn't favor one device over the next. It has to be with regards to all the new HID technologies appearing on the market. Microsoft can't just continue to same path with Windows, not when the market is pushing for new devices that Windows 7 just won't work with. It would be a bad business decision to continue to favor the desktop paradigm just for a vocal few.

While this sounds great in theory, it means that people who are trained in how Windows 8 works (for example, they buy a tablet and learn all the gestures) have to retool their thinking for Windows 8 on desktop ("where's the Start Screen?" "why can't I pull up the charms?"). With Windows 8 unifying Metro on all devices, they will intuitively know how to operate both environments once they are trained in one.

But the interfaces are already different. How do you bring up the charm bar on a tablet? Slide from the right. How do you bring up the charm bar on a desktop? Move the mouse to the top right or bottom right corner. How do you launch the start screen on a tablet? From the charm bar. How do you launch the start screen on a desktop? Move your mouse to the bottom left corner. Unifying them has certainly not helped consistency. Tablets and desktops but have different learning curves; it would therefore have been better to play to the strengths of each of their input methods rather than compromise the desktop experience.

The charms are more or less the same with touch as they are with mouse, so they're just as useful/useless with one as with the other - it wouldn't make any sense to base their availability on input method.

The charm bar contains:

1) Start button (not necessary)

2) Settings (duplicate of Control Panel)

3) Devices (haven't even found a use for it yet)

4) Share (could be implemented elsewhere)

5) Search (could be implemented elsewhere)

The charm bar has been shoehorned onto the desktop but simply isn't practical or efficient. The hot-corners are completely unnecessary and there was no need to actually remove the start button, which was something people were already familiar with.

Everyone here will endlessly argue UX enhancements and retractions, but the reality is that Microsoft isn't doing this for any reason other than hoping to get a solid foot into the tablet market. The hope is that a Metro first experience will force developers to embrace Metro in a deep fashion. Since Metro apps will work on the tablet and the desktop they'll be able to leverage the desktop in the tablet war for developer interest.

This.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • I'm fine with a little reasonable promotion of Edge, but the degree which they do it right now I consider extremely unreasonable. 
    • Microsoft AI boss no longer believes that AI will replace human workers by David Uzondu Mustafa Suleyman, the head of Microsoft AI, recently took back his statements concerning white-collar jobs that he gave to the Financial Times in an interview made back in February, where he claimed that AI would replace office workers within 12 to 18 months. On Monday's episode of The Verge's Decoder, Suleyman recast the technology as more like a helpmate than a tool designed to take over your job. He explained that smaller office duties will "increasingly become digitized, automated" as people generate more digital materials. During the discussion, Suleyman emphasized a "very important distinction" between "tasks" and "jobs" to clarify his previous claims. He argued that his earlier comments only referred to individual actions that people perform at their desks. Suleyman used to work for DeepMind, the research lab he co-founded in 2010 alongside Demis Hassabis and Shane Legg, before he left in 2022 to establish Inflection AI and build an empathetic digital assistant. Microsoft hired him in March 2024 to lead its newly formed "Microsoft AI" division, placing him in charge of consumer products like Copilot, Bing, and Edge. His February comments also detailed plans for Microsoft to achieve self-sufficiency with a $140 billion infrastructure budget to train frontier models, predicting that creating a customized AI will soon feel like creating a podcast or a new blog: The 41-year-old is not the only AI executive who's softened his "AI will replace you" stance. OpenAI's CEO, Sam Altman, last month used X to push back against employment panic by arguing that his startup builds tools to assist humans rather than build replacements. He had previously garnered backlash by suggesting that many modern office roles that AI might replace did not qualify as "real work" in the first place, at least when you compare desk jobs to physical, historical labor like farming.
    • Adobe Acrobat Reader DC 2026.001.21662 by Razvan Serea Adobe Acrobat Reader DC software is the free, trusted standard for viewing, printing, signing, and annotating PDFs. Its the only PDF viewer that can open and interact with all types of PDF content – including forms and multimedia. It’s connected to Adobe Document Cloud – so you can work with PDFs on computers and mobile devices. Adobe Document Cloud is a revolutionary, modern and efficient way to get work done with documents in the office, at home or on-the-go. At the heart of Document Cloud is the all-new Adobe Acrobat DC, which will take e-signatures mainstream by delivering free e-signing with every individual subscription. Document Cloud includes a set of integrated services that use a consistent online profile and personal document hub. With Adobe Document Cloud, people will be able to create, review, approve, sign and track documents whether on a desktop or mobile device. Businesses will be able to take advantage of Document Cloud for enterprise which provides enterprise-class document services that integrate into systems of record such as CRM, HCM, CLM, and CMS, adding speed, efficiency and transparency to getting business done with documents. Adobe Acrobat Reader DC new feature highlights: Work with PDFs from anywhere with the new, free Acrobat DC mobile app for Android or iOS. Select functionality is also available on Windows Phone. Use the new Fill & Sign tool in your desktop software to complete PDF forms fast with smart autofill. Download the free Adobe Fill & Sign mobile app to add the same option to your iPad or Android tablet device. Save money on ink and toner when printing from your Windows PC. Store and access files in Adobe Document Cloud with 5GB of free storage. Get instant access to recent files across desktop, web, and mobile devices with Mobile Link. Sync your Fill & Sign autofill collection across desktop, web, and iPad devices. Adobe PDF Pack premium features includes: Convert documents and images to PDF files. Use your mobile device camera to take a picture of a paper document or form and convert it to PDF. Turn PDFs into editable Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, or RTF files. Combine multiple files into a single PDF (web only). Get signatures from others with a complete e-signature service. Send, track, and confirm delivery of documents electronically instead of using fax or overnight services (tracking not available on mobile). Store and access files online with 20GB of storage. Download: Adobe Acrobat Reader DC 64-bit | 719.0 MB (Freeware) Link: Adobe Acrobat Reader DC Home Page | Release Notes | Screenshot Get alerted to all of our Software updates on Twitter at @NeowinSoftware
    • Meta will now use data from outside businesses to personalize AI responses by David Uzondu In an update that's rolling out globally (except in a handful of countries), Meta will use your data from outside businesses to personalize your AI responses and your primary feeds. Meta already utilizes your shopping activity to target ads, but the company now plans to expand this tracking to personalize other "parts of your experience" like feed algorithms and AI assistant chats. The company is replacing the two settings ("Your activity off Meta technologies" and "Activity from other businesses") that currently let you disconnect off-platform activity with a single, renamed setting called Activity from other businesses. If you don't want Meta to manipulate your feed and AI responses using your outside history, you can just turn the Activity from other businesses setting off in your account settings. This toggle resides within your Accounts Center, applying your choice to every connected profile. Turning this off will not stop companies from sending your data to Meta. The company will still collect your web interactions, but it only uses them to train products, while still accessing external accounts you connect. When The Verge spoke to Meta spokesperson, Emil Vazquez, the representative said that this update will exclude several locations at launch including the European region, the UK, Brazil, Thailand, South Africa, Turkey, South Korea, Ecuador, Nigeria, and Kenya. The new update comes at a time when the social media giant is recovering from a major PR disaster involving generative AI. Last week, there was a huge security issue on Instagram where attackers figured out a way to exploit a prompt injection vulnerability. Hackers managed to trick Meta AI into handing over account ownership (even if the victim had 2FA enabled). Some of the affected accounts include the dormant Obama White House profile, cosmetics brand Sephora, the Chief Master Sergeant of the Space Force, and security researcher Jane Manchun Wong. Internally, the company also had to scale back plans on its Model Capability Initiative (MCI), an employee-monitoring program designed to train corporate AI models by recording worker keystrokes and screen activity, after employees raised privacy concerns and complained about severe battery life drain.
    • JetBrains is working to cut false positives in RustRover 2026.2 by David Uzondu Recently, JetBrains released the fifth EAP build of its dedicated IDE, RustRover 2026.2, bringing improvements like a Run gutter icon for criterion_main! macro benchmarking and a feature that alerts you when there are unused traits in your current scope. Now, the company is out with a blog post addressing one of the "most common" complaints from users: false positives. In RustRover, a false positive occurs when the editor incorrectly highlights something as an error even though the project compiles and runs successfully. This mismatch flags a gap between the IDE's internal intelligence and the actual compiler. When the editor flashes red warnings over perfectly valid code, developers lose trust in the tool, which stalls momentum. Traditionally, RustRover runs cargo check to detect compiler errors and warnings, but it also relies on its own code analysis engine to power real-time features. To provide quick feedback, this engine parses your source code into a syntax tree while inferring types and resolving names as you type. Because this engine must work on broken, half-written code and react instantly, its logic sometimes diverges from the compiler's, producing false positives that do not exist in the compiler's eyes. JetBrains said that it has a "dedicated task force" focused specifically on identifying and fixing false positives by analyzing user reports and examining large-scale open-source projects. To speed up this process, the team built an internal system modeled after Crater, the famous Rust project that compiles and runs tests for every single crate published on crates.io. This automated pipeline compares the diagnostics from RustRover's analysis with actual compiler output to catch discrepancies before they reach users, ensuring smoother workflows. RustRover, for those who're unaware, is a dedicated IDE designed specifically for Rust developers. It's been around for a couple of years now, providing features like built-in debugging via LLDB, seamless cargo integration, advanced macro expansion, and HTML support. JetBrains distributes the app under two licensing models: a paid commercial subscription and a free option for non-commercial use.
  • Recent Achievements

    • One Year In
      Primer1st earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Experienced
      JayZJay went up a rank
      Experienced
    • Reacting Well
      Sir_Timbit earned a badge
      Reacting Well
    • Week One Done
      rubentuben8 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      ARaclen earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      512
    2. 2
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      229
    3. 3
      Edouard
      134
    4. 4
      ATLien_0
      87
    5. 5
      Steven P.
      80
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!