Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

[WAQT]

Texas has a huge stance on defending yourself and your property with whatever force you deem fit pretty much. To put it into perspective, in 2007 a guy shot and killed 2 people that were robbing a neighbors house. Due to the castle doctrine that allows a person to defend property, he was never arrested nor indicted.

I would have loved to live in Texas, admiration!

[Ently]

Death is a pretty final solution (obviously) however the mental trauma suffered to this girl will last a lifetime and depending on how she handles it could very well ruin her life completely. So I guess in a way its an eye for an eye situation.

[The Guvnor]

Good job on the pedo kill.

[SYBINX]

Poetic Justice...

[Southern Patriot]

I think that in some way it should be considered as self defense

Yes, in most states defending the life of someone who is helpless against an attacker is considered self defense, even though you are technically defending someone else.

[Southern Patriot]

The jury refused, point blank, to find him guilty on anything despite the direction given by the judge (which not biased in nature, but told them to only assess whether her had killed or not, not whether it was self defense or not).

+10000 to that jury for refusing to do what that idiot judge demanded of them. That was an absolutely ridiculous request that would probably get at least a judicial review, if not disbarment here in the US. Looking at the article on Wikipedia, it seems as if Australian self defense law is pretty similar to that of the US.

[ANON86364]

If you have something against the "murder" in this case, you clearly don't believe in third-party self defense. Stop putting yourselves on some pedestal as if your unwavering logic compares to the purest of evils. The adulteration of this 4 year old is irreparable. There is no way to make it right via the justice system.

[Raffye.Memon]

i would do the same if i was the father.

+1

[shakey]

I don't recall our instinct telling us we should be mating with 4 year old girls...

I hear a plane flying over your head....

[DocM]

Yes, in most states defending the life of someone who is helpless against an attacker is considered self defense, even though you are technically defending someone else.

Adding to that, there is usually a separate section in the self-defense law that allows deadly force to be used in defending yourself or another against a sexual assault.

Michigan Code -

780.951 Individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force; presumption; definitions.

Sec. 1.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual....

This perv was doomed 6 ways to Sunday.

[c.grz]

As a father of a 3 year old daughter; the thought of a someone molesting a little girl drives me mad. I have no idea how I would be able to control myself from beating the living **** out of someone that I caught doing something to my daughter.

[Dot Matrix]

I hear a plane flying over your head....

Huh?

[DocM]

As a father of a 3 year old daughter; the thought of a someone molesting a little girl drives me mad. I have no idea how I would be able to control myself from beating the living **** out of someone that I caught doing something to my daughter.

I wouldn't even try, though now my baby girl is 32 and an ardent disciple of Ellen Ripley.

[c.grz]

I wouldn't even try, though now my baby girl is 32 and an ardent disciple of Ellen Ripley.

Yeah, I think a "Strong Woman" movie marathon will be a normal occurrence with my daughter!

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

anaron r u a father?

No, but I don't need to be a father to feel compassionate for the poor girl.

I don't understand how can someone say he didn't deserve to die.

In that situation people don't think, they act as they feel neccecary, most would just would have keep on beating his ass even after he was dead, it's an mental trauma for the little girl but take the point of view of the father, thats your child you'll do everything to protect her, even kill another person.

I don't even feel sorry for the pedo, got what was coming to him.

What is there not to understand? All we know is that the girl was sexually assaulted. And sexual assault is a pretty broad term. It can be as extreme as attempted rape or rape but it can also be groping or sexual harassment. What I don't understand is how you can make such a claim with such limited information. You see the words "sexual assault" and you immediately believe that the man deserved to die. Where will you draw the line? Does a rapist deserve to die more than someone that gropes a child? And what about someone that exposes himself to a child vs. someone that gropes a child?

In fairness, perochan said that he would do the same in that situation. That could just mean that he would defend the daughter, not that he would purposefully kill the other man. As an example, if it were me in the father's situation I would have probably reacted the same way, and if the man died because of it I would be just as remorseful as the father is. Would I defend my daughter with the specific intention of killing the other person? No.

Where did he make that distinction? The article states that a father killed a man for sexually assaulting his 4-year-old daughter. If someone says, "I'd do the same." I'll understand that as, "I'd defend my daughter but I'd also kill him on purpose." You can't say you'd do something accidentally because it wouldn't be an accident. I agree with your stance on the issue though.

I disagree completely.

Upon further reflection, I think the both of us require a little more clarification on the issue of child molestation and murder. It's not as black and white as some people would think.

If you have something against the "murder" in this case, you clearly don't believe in third-party self defense. Stop putting yourselves on some pedestal as if your unwavering logic compares to the purest of evils. The adulteration of this 4 year old is irreparable. There is no way to make it right via the justice system.

Firstly, it wasn't murder. It was justifiable homicide. Secondly, self defence (and defence of a third party) doesn't require the use of deadly force. The father didn't need to kill the man in order to defend his daughter. Thirdly, no one is putting themselves on a pedestal. And finally, you don't know the severity of the man's sexual assault. It isn't wise to make a hasty generalization like that when you agree with the death of an individual.

[shakey]

Huh?

My statement went over your head, just like with my reply it seems... do I have to type slower?

[DocM]

Firstly, it wasn't murder. It was justifiable homicide. Secondly, self defence (and defence of a third party) doesn't require the use of deadly force. The father didn't need to kill the man in order to defend his daughter.

But in the course of defending his daughter the perps death was a result of his own actions - her started it. End of story.

And finally, you don't know the severity of the man's sexual assault....

The law usually doesn't specify what degree of sexual assault can have lethal force used as a defense against it. Here in Michigan a sexual assault on a person aged 13 or under can be punished with a life sentence - the same as murder.

[Southern Patriot]

No, but I don't need to be a father to feel compassionate for the poor girl.

You apparently feel more compassion for the sick animal who sexually assaulted a 4 year old girl than for the girl herself. You seem the be about the only person here who feels that the perp somehow should still be alive. Makes me wonder about your mentality. The father would have been just as justified in my mind (and in the law in most cases) if he had simply walked up behind the jackass assaulting his daughter, pulled out a pistol, and blew the guy's brains out. No beatdown necessary.

Oh, and I'm a firm supporter of the death penalty for sexual assault of any child. Firing squad immediately after conviction would be my preference.

[Charisma Veteran]

Some of you seem to think the father intentionally killed the guy. I doubt that was the case. Maybe I'm misreading some of your replies, but come on--you walk in to find your sweet little 4-year-old girl screaming and crying, and you see the cause of it, a guy sexually assaulting a tiny child. Your tiny child. Of course he doesn't have time to stand there, assess the situation, analyse the degree of the assault, and determine the exact amount of force required. He panics, is filled with rage and the urge to defend his child, and he goes in to defend her. He's not thinking anything except "get the **** away from her" and probably "you need to suffer as well for what you've made her suffer". I too am disturbed by those who seem to ignore what the girl went through and how it may affect her for the rest of her life, and focus on what the guy dealt with. He died pretty quickly, apparently, she will almost certainly suffer for longer than he did.

[The Laughing Man]

Some of you seem to think the father intentionally killed the guy. I doubt that was the case. Maybe I'm misreading some of your replies, but come on--you walk in to find your sweet little 4-year-old girl screaming and crying, and you see the cause of it, a guy sexually assaulting a tiny child. Your tiny child. Of course he doesn't have time to stand there, assess the situation, analyse the degree of the assault, and determine the exact amount of force required. He panics, is filled with rage and the urge to defend his child, and he goes in to defend her. He's not thinking anything except "get the **** away from her" and probably "you need to suffer as well for what you've made her suffer". I too am disturbed by those who seem to ignore what the girl went through and how it may affect her for the rest of her life, and focus on what the guy dealt with. He died pretty quickly, apparently, she will almost certainly suffer for longer than he did.

I agree, also I dont think most are parents so its hard for them to grasp the concept of walking into a situation such as that.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

But in the course of defending his daughter the perps death was a result of his own actions - her started it. End of story.

His actions lead to his death, yes... but that shouldn't mean his fate was sealed. I don't have an issue with justifiable homicide in a case like this. What I have an issue with is wanting to murder someone as opposed to simply stopping them.

The law usually doesn't specify what degree of sexual assault can have lethal force used as a defense against it. Here in Michigan a sexual assault on a person aged 13 or under can be punished with a life sentence - the same as murder.

If that's the case then why do some people here think it's okay to want to murder someone for this? Also, can all forms of sexual assault be punishable by death? I would be very surprised if the answer to that question is "yes".

You apparently feel more compassion for the sick animal who sexually assaulted a 4 year old girl than for the girl herself. You seem the be about the only person here who feels that the perp somehow should still be alive. Makes me wonder about your mentality. The father would have been just as justified in my mind (and in the law in most cases) if he had simply walked up behind the jackass assaulting his daughter, pulled out a pistol, and blew the guy's brains out. No beatdown necessary.

Oh, and I'm a firm supporter of the death penalty for sexual assault of any child. Firing squad immediately after conviction would be my preference.

No, I don't. The only thing apparent about how I feel on this issue is what I've said so far which includes: "If you're talking about the father, then I support what he did to defend his daughter. I don't, however, support the fact that he ended up killing someone." I still stand behind what I said because I don't believe that his death was necessary for the safety of his daughter. I can understand something like a crime of passion where you lose control in the heat of the moment. And that's what happened in this case... it was justifiable homicide. Personally, I can't say I wouldn't lose control in a situation like that. But to say that you would willingly kill someone over something that hasn't happened to you seems a bit outrageous to me. Especially when you don't know the details of the situation like what kind of sexual assault it was.

I guess I feel that some people would change their mind if the variables were modified (e.g. a woman instead of a man, a teenage girl instead of a man, etc).

Some of you seem to think the father intentionally killed the guy. I doubt that was the case. Maybe I'm misreading some of your replies, but come on--you walk in to find your sweet little 4-year-old girl screaming and crying, and you see the cause of it, a guy sexually assaulting a tiny child. Your tiny child. Of course he doesn't have time to stand there, assess the situation, analyse the degree of the assault, and determine the exact amount of force required. He panics, is filled with rage and the urge to defend his child, and he goes in to defend her. He's not thinking anything except "get the **** away from her" and probably "you need to suffer as well for what you've made her suffer". I too am disturbed by those who seem to ignore what the girl went through and how it may affect her for the rest of her life, and focus on what the guy dealt with. He died pretty quickly, apparently, she will almost certainly suffer for longer than he did.

I'm sure most parents would do whatever it took to defend their children; however, I doubt very many would willingly kill someone in a situation like this.

[The Laughing Man]

" you don't know the severity of the man's sexual assault".

You can't justify the level of sexual assault when its a 4 year old being attacked.

[DocM]

If that's the case then why do some people here think it's okay to want to murder someone for this?

>

It's not murder - it's a justifiable homicide.

Like it or not, if you do some crimes your life is forfeit at the hands of the victim or their defender. Unfortunately, some perps learn faster than others.

[Southern Patriot]

Especially when you don't know the details of the situation like what kind of sexual assault it was.

The fact that you think that it matters at all when we are talking about a 4 year old girl disturbs me.

[LaP]

I agree, also I dont think most are parents so its hard for them to grasp the concept of walking into a situation such as that.

I don't think that being a parent has anything to do about that.

I've seen parents that did not care for their own children. I've seen it plenty of time. I've seen people without kids caring a lot for the kids of other people.

I think that a lot of people don't realise he did not want to kill the guy. He just wanted to protect his daughter.

I will not say good job. Cause that would imply he wanted to kill the guy. I'll just say he did what he had to do and i wish him and his daughter to be able to go thru this hard time.