Microsoft: Apple has it wrong, it's a PC+ era

[Dashel]

I think MS is quite right, PC+ is a much more apt description than the 'Post-PC' silliness fostered by a fruity appliance manufacturer.

[Growled Member]

I think MS is quite right, PC+ is a much more apt description than the 'Post-PC' silliness fostered by a fruity appliance manufacturer.

I don't know, I use a PC less and less these days. I hope in a year or two I can do away with one entirely.

[Dashel]

I don't know, I use a PC less and less these days. I hope in a year or two I can do away with one entirely.

Why? Have your usage patterns changed or were they that basic to begin with?

[Melfster]

I think its just the opposite I use PC more and more and the phone less and less.

[Noir Angel]

Given that Microsoft are trying to bastardise everyone with a tablet UI, apparently the lines between a tablet and a PC are blurred for them.

[still1]

IDC and Gartner: PC market flattened out in Q2 while Apple, ASUS and Lenovo remain the stars

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/12/idc-and-gartner-pc-market-flattened-out-in-q2-2012/

[margrave]

This is just the same stuff as when laptops came out. People were saying that everyone would move to them. There was a surge while they were new, but desktops never died out. Now we have a new form factor again, tablet. Nothing more than a laptop with no keyboard. They're still new. Desktops and laptops will not die out. All three form factors will co-exists.

This is silly really. Just like you can still buy sports cars, trucks, and vans! No one 'type' killed off one of the others.

[Dashel]

The only true difference right now is that poor people and n00bs are just using their smartphones instead of replacing their aging PCs. Or you get the ones that were hoodwinked into thinking slates were PC replacements and now are out that cash completely and making do. (My iPad can't print, lulz)

[threetonesun]

The only true difference right now is that poor people and n00bs are just using their smartphones instead of replacing their aging PCs. Or you get the ones that were hoodwinked into thinking slates were PC replacements and now are out that cash completely and making do. (My iPad can't print, lulz)

Eh, or you can get by with 99% of basic home tasks on a smartphone or tablet. Who prints any more?

[Dashel]

You're right, you can just get by. You can't tell me for a second its a more pleasurable experience though. If I have to do anything that requires more than a few seconds of UI entry/manipulation I'm headed for my Desktop when at home. I understand many people can't afford the luxury of a real computer, that isn't a reason to become complacent or pretend they are all the same.

You never print anything? Last time I checked the printer market was still doing ok. No PCs, no printers, no 'home sharing'. Ugh, talk about roughing it.

[threetonesun]

You're right, you can just get by. You can't tell me for a second its a more pleasurable experience though. If I have to do anything that requires more than a few seconds of UI entry/manipulation I'm headed for my Desktop when at home. I understand many people can't afford the luxury of a real computer, that isn't a reason to become complacent or pretend they are all the same.

Of course it's more pleasurable. I can check my e-mails, pay my bills, read a book or watch a movie in my hammock in the backyard with a device that weighs a few ounces, not pounds.

Sure, once you NEED a keyboard, you're better off with a PC, but I can also come up with plenty of examples where my phone is MORE useful than my PC. Directions / notifications / video chat from the bathroom... you get the idea.

[jasondefaoite]

iPad sale figures beg to differ. Anyway, I also seem to remember this one:

To be fair, Balmer was taking about the US$599 iPhone, and thats with a 2 year contract. That price was crazy, and Apple realised it pretty quickly.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

Apple has everything just right. That's why they are making a crap-load of $$$ and Microsoft have lost so much since Bill left.

And a PC+ would mean the actual power of a medium to high end PC in a tablet? Surface is good, don't get me wrong, but to play the latest and greatest games on it is nothing short of dreaming.

Yes, I read somewhere that Halo 4 is supposed to work on Surface, but Halo 4 is also running on tech that's over 7 years old. That isn't impressive to me. What would be impressive is seeing a fully next gen game (made for the xbox 720 or even a PC game like Battlefield 3 running on ultra detail) on Surface. Couple that with a 500GB SSD and whatever the latest intel quad core cpu is, for under $1000 AUS then id be impressed.

[.Neo]

To be fair, Balmer was taking about the US$599 iPhone, and thats with a 2 year contract. That price was crazy, and Apple realised it pretty quickly.

[?] It's also pretty obvious the first generation of a totally new product is going to cost you something. The original iPhone came with 4-8 GB of internal flash memory which in itself was basically unheard of at the time. Price drops are always likely to occur which makes Ballmer's quote even more meaningless.

[jasondefaoite]

Sure, price drops are always likely to occur. However, a price drop of US$200 only 2 months after the launch ... er not so frequent.

[.Neo]

Sure, price drops are always likely to occur. However, a price drop of US$200 only 2 months after the launch ... er not so frequent.

From what I remember flash memory prices took a nosedive in that period. It also corresponded with the 4GB model being discontinued. And even then, people were lining up for the original iPhone at its original price! I bet our bloated friend Ballmer didn't see that one coming?

[redfish]

I can check my e-mail...

But then you have trouble responding to your e-mail, if you need to write more than a sentence.

And I would guess if you're reading a book in the backyard, in the full sun, you might find an e-reader more pleasurable, since it doesn't have any glare. (Or, you know, an actual book, instead of a digital copy) Otherwise, you better stick to reading the book inside.

Directions? Ok. Better from a phone than a tablet, though.

People overstate the convenience of tablets.

And what are you doing video chatting from your bathroom?

[Dashel]

Of course it's more pleasurable. I can check my e-mails, pay my bills, read a book or watch a movie in my hammock in the backyard with a device that weighs a few ounces, not pounds.

Sure, once you NEED a keyboard, you're better off with a PC, but I can also come up with plenty of examples where my phone is MORE useful than my PC. Directions / notifications / video chat from the bathroom... you get the idea.

All very basic, navigation lite, consumption oriented activities. They should be complementary. I won't get directions from my PC any more than I'd try to work or play games on my phone. Hey, if you are content with such simplicity, fine. Not a good trend though, but I guess such laziness is to be expected from a generation weaned on iPods.

Per watching movies from your hammock example. I think that really highlights my point. Sure its nice for the occasional use, but are you going to dump your home theater system too just because you can watch from a 4 or 9" screen? I think it speaks to the same issue. The convenience of mobility rarely outweighs the sacrifices.

[threetonesun]

But then you have trouble responding to your e-mail, if you need to write more than a sentence.

And I would guess if you're reading a book in the backyard, in the full sun, you might find an e-reader more pleasurable, since it doesn't have any glare. (Or, you know, an actual book, instead of a digital copy) Otherwise, you better stick to reading the book inside.

Directions? Ok. Better from a phone than a tablet, though.

People overstate the convenience of tablets.

And what are you doing video chatting from your bathroom?

I can write paragraphs with my thumbs just fine. Certainly enough for e-mail. A short story, probably no.

Why would I ever read a book in full sunlight, unless I was trying to get skin cancer? Also, can I read graphic novels on my e-reader? No? Well that's no use to me then. Also, what if I decide the book I'm reading is rubbish, and I want to play a game instead. Can I do that on my e-reader / physical copy of the book?

Phone or tablet, they both have their pluses and minuses, but I'd consider them about even. If you really think people are "overstating" the convenience of tablets and smartphones, I suggest you go hang out with people who actually use them on a regular basis.

... and don't worry about what I do in my bathroom. :rofl:

[threetonesun]

All very basic, navigation lite, consumption oriented activities. They should be complementary. I won't get directions from my PC any more than I'd try to work or play games on my phone. Hey, if you are content with such simplicity, fine. Not a good trend though, but I guess such laziness is to be expected from a generation weaned on iPods.

Per your watching movies from your hammock example. I think that really highlights my point. Sure its nice for the occasional use, but are you going to dump your home theater system too just because you can watch from a 4 or 9" screen? I think it speaks to the same issue. The convenience of mobility rarely outweighs the sacrifices.

Well, I don't have a home theatre system any more, so maybe. Also, I'd like to know what consuming I'm doing when I use my smartphone as a guitar tuner, or use it as a GPS device when I'm out hiking, or use it to quickly send of pictures to friends that I just took on my DSRL camera, or use the built-in camera to take a snapshot of a design idea and save it with a note, or figure out what constellation I'm looking at in the sky.

Forget about convenience and consumption, there's only 1 thing in that list that my PC could do nearly as well, and it would still involve lugging around a much bigger device.

[redfish]

I can write paragraphs with my thumbs just fine. Certainly enough for e-mail. A short story, probably no.

Why would I ever read a book in full sunlight, unless I was trying to get skin cancer? Also, can I read graphic novels on my e-reader? No? Well that's no use to me then. Also, what if I decide the book I'm reading is rubbish, and I want to play a game instead. Can I do that on my e-reader / physical copy of the book?

Phone or tablet, they both have their pluses and minuses, but I'd consider them about even. If you really think people are "overstating" the convenience of tablets and smartphones, I suggest you go hang out with people who actually use them on a regular basis.

... and don't worry about what I do in my bathroom. :rofl:

You never do anything in the sun for fear you'll get skin cancer? And whats wrong with paperback books?

Yea I still think people are overstating their utility/convenience, its something you get used to doing. And some people get used to doing it an awful lot to the point of it being a habit. But if you're okay responding to e-mails with your thumbs, that's fine, I just would find it more convenient to do with a keyboard. And if you're okay with dealing with glare issues reading outside, that's fine, I just would find it a bit annoying.

[threetonesun]

You never do anything in the sun for fear you'll get skin cancer? And whats wrong with paperback books?

No, I go in the sun. I just don't understand these people who complain about screen glare on e-readers when sitting in the sun for a few hours to read a book seems like a really terrible idea. In terms of eye-fatigue, sure, I can see how e-readers are better.

And there's nothing wrong with paperbacks per se, but I did pick up a copy of Infinite Jest recently, and it's about 8 times the size of an iPad...

[Kyang]

Apple has everything just right. That's why they are making a crap-load of $$$ and Microsoft have lost so much since Bill left.

And a PC+ would mean the actual power of a medium to high end PC in a tablet? Surface is good, don't get me wrong, but to play the latest and greatest games on it is nothing short of dreaming.

Yes, I read somewhere that Halo 4 is supposed to work on Surface, but Halo 4 is also running on tech that's over 7 years old. That isn't impressive to me. What would be impressive is seeing a fully next gen game (made for the xbox 720 or even a PC game like Battlefield 3 running on ultra detail) on Surface. Couple that with a 500GB SSD and whatever the latest intel quad core cpu is, for under $1000 AUS then id be impressed.

They said Halo 4 works "with" Surface, not "on". So there's some neat features you'll get if you're playing Halo 4, and have a Surface computer. But you're not playing Halo 4 "on" it.

[Dashel]

Well, I don't have a home theatre system any more...Forget about convenience and consumption, there's only 1 thing in that list that my PC could do nearly as well, and it would still involve lugging around a much bigger device.

Well, its clear that our usage patterns are wildly different on that note. Sure, there are a couple cool mobility apps that you can't do easily otherwise (most based around GPS functions), but maybe I'm just an old hat. I have never been a gadget dork and still find it to be much more of a novelty than a must have feature. Everything else is a tradeoff and if you can afford it, why not have the best of both worlds?

Couldn't you say the same about 'standalone' cameras too? Their sales are hurting more than printers and other devices because again, the phone camera is the entry point. Users concerned with quality and experience will add better, more expensive equipment and not settle for good enough. A photographer isn't going to give up their lenses just because they can tag their friends from their phone.

[jasondefaoite]

From what I remember flash memory prices took a nosedive in that period. It also corresponded with the 4GB model being discontinued. And even then, people were lining up for the original iPhone at its original price! I bet our bloated friend Ballmer didn't see that one coming?

Just so I understand what you are saying here, Apple dropped the price of the iPhone two months after release, as they were making too much profit due to falling flash prices? Then Steve had to issue a release explaining to the folks that paid full price it was the "norm" for being an early adopter, but here's a $100 AT&T voucher for the pain.

The *only* reason the price was dropped was Apple wanted to sell more phones then they currently were, and they could afford to do so. The price was set too high initially.