Nokia only sold 330k Lumia in the US


Recommended Posts

Lumia's might not have the latest multi-core processors but they generally outperform anything running Android

Except that they don't. Just take a look at any benchmark. What you're talking about is perceived speed, which by its very nature, has nothing to do with actual performance, and everything to do with hiding delays with animations, and maintaining a consistent frame rate, which I should mention is what project butter does.

The reason WP7's UI appears to run smoothly and consistently is down to silverlight running vsynced to the refresh rate of the display. I don't know the details of silverlight et al, but the combination of constant framerate and subtle delays hidden by transitions/animations gives the appearance of smoothness, at least to the human eye anyway. Again, that has nothing to do with actual performance. It's all slight of hand.

and don't suffer from the woeful performance issues that that OS exhibits.

See above. They aren't actual performance issues, just the visible differences in frame rates. Running at a constant framerate like JB does, the UI appears smoother to the naked eye, but it's purely superficial.

Also, I can only speak for the Lumia 800 but it's an extremely well made phone using cutting edge materials and manufacturing processes.

As the UK carriers/operators noted, the Lumia line of phones are 2012 priced for 2009 hardware. Some might be fooled into investing in that kind of outdated hardware, but not me.

Benchmarks are meaningless when it's obvious to anyone using them that Android phones struggle to perform the most basic tasks smoothly and without lag even though it's running on multicore processors. WP7, on the other hand, runs rings around Android in real-world usage with a fraction of the resources at its disposal.

Benchmarks are meaningless when it's obvious to anyone using them that Android phones struggle to perform the most basic tasks smoothly and without lag even though it's running on multicore processors. WP7, on the other hand, runs rings around Android in real-world usage with a fraction of the resources at its disposal.

The UI smoothness has nothing to do with how many processor cores it has. It's all about running the compositor at a constant framerate on the GPU vsynced to the refresh rate of the display.

Jellybean's project butter does that for Android, hence why the UI is perceivably smoother. It is only superficial though, and has nothing to do with real performance and benchmarks. There's not a single WP device on the market that even comes close to the slowest Android one in terms of actual performance - javascript execution, graphic throughput, multitasking (well I suppose that one's not fair because WP7 doesn't even have symmetrical multitasking).

Benchmarks are meaningless when it's obvious to anyone using them that Android phones struggle to perform the most basic tasks smoothly and without lag even though it's running on multicore processors. WP7, on the other hand, runs rings around Android in real-world usage with a fraction of the resources at its disposal.

Now that's the kind of statement that simply isn't true. I don't know if you were being sarcastic or just plain blinkered but only the most ardent fanboy could ever say that with a straight face, or you simply haven't seen an Android phone.

Except that they don't. Just take a look at any benchmark.

Heavily edited post :)

Neowin is just starting to become the new Tomshardware, "I NEEDZ MOAAAAR CORES!" Time to find a new site I guess.

Go be happy with your multi-core which lasts for a day on battery weise and just shut the hell up about things you clearly don't understand.

Maybe I have a dud Lumia 710 then as my battery barely lasts a day.

Well Nokia was once described my Microsoft as the enemy they wanted to destroy http://www.economist.com/node/1454300

?We want to fend off Microsoft?we don't want to go the way of the PC business?

And Microsoft don't have a great background in partner relationships http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/01/06/microsofts_masterplan_to_screw_phone/

What does that have to do with it. It's not a trojan horse when he was specifically hired to change the company to WP by the board. For him to have been a trojan horse, they must not have known he used to work for MS, and they must have hired him to do something else.

Except that they don't. Just take a look at any benchmark. What you're talking about is perceived speed, which by its very nature, has nothing to do with actual performance, and everything to do with hiding delays with animations, and maintaining a consistent frame rate, which I should mention is what project butter does.

The reason WP7's UI appears to run smoothly and consistently is down to silverlight running vsynced to the refresh rate of the display. I don't know the details of silverlight et al, but the combination of constant framerate and subtle delays hidden by transitions/animations gives the appearance of smoothness, at least to the human eye anyway. Again, that has nothing to do with actual performance. It's all slight of hand.

Impressive sleight of hand then, as it has shorter and faster as well as smoother animations than android, with quicker and better transitions. So strop talking FUD and BS. it also scrolls far smoother on far lesser hardware. So I guess Android has those same magic non existent delays then, except it still lags and chugs a lot more.

Benchmarks are meaningless when it's obvious to anyone using them that Android phones struggle to perform the most basic tasks smoothly and without lag even though it's running on multicore processors. WP7, on the other hand, runs rings around Android in real-world usage with a fraction of the resources at its disposal.

Android doesn't struggle to perform tasks smoothly, it sometimes just doesn't (at least until JB, which I havent' tried yet so I can't comment on it) show smooth UI animations, which have nothing to do with the tasks per se.

If it was a matter of struggling with processing you wouldn't be able to play games like ShadowGun smoothly, and you wouldn't be able to record smooth 1080p video.

By the way, can WP phones record 1080p video? No, right? And don't you think that might have something to do with what the benchmark results are showing?

And then you are also paying the same for your phone as other people are paying for phones with newer and faster hardware that support more features.

The UI smoothness has nothing to do with how many processor cores it has. It's all about running the compositor at a constant framerate on the GPU vsynced to the refresh rate of the display.

Jellybean's project butter does that for Android, hence why the UI is perceivably smoother. It is only superficial though, and has nothing to do with real performance and benchmarks. There's not a single WP device on the market that even comes close to the slowest Android one in terms of actual performance - javascript execution, graphic throughput, multitasking (well I suppose that one's not fair because WP7 doesn't even have symmetrical multitasking).

Sorry, but OS usage IS real world performance, users don't' care about benchmarks with no real world impact.

If it was a matter of struggling with processing you wouldn't be able to play games like ShadowGun smoothly, and you wouldn't be able to record smooth 1080p video.

Actually it has more to do with the fact that the optics and image processors and sensors on the phones today are crap and 1080P videos don't look any better then their 720 counterparts, they just have more noise and optical blurring. the only phone with optics capable of doing good video at that res is a Nokia, and doesn't run either OS (yet)

Android doesn't struggle to perform tasks smoothly, it sometimes just doesn't (at least until JB, which I havent' tried yet so I can't comment on it) show smooth UI animations, which have nothing to do with the tasks per se.

If it was a matter of struggling with processing you wouldn't be able to play games like ShadowGun smoothly, and you wouldn't be able to record smooth 1080p video.

Android certainly does struggle to perform tasks smoothly if the UI is struggling to keep up with the user. Also, Jelly Bean is completely irrelevant as virtually no current phone will ever get it going by Android's history of not supporting updates, and we're yet to see what a mess OEMs will make of it once they add their awful skins. Finally, I very much doubt that it will run as smoothly as WP7 does on the same hardware.

What does that have to do with it. It's not a trojan horse when he was specifically hired to change the company to WP by the board. For him to have been a trojan horse, they must not have known he used to work for MS, and they must have hired him to do something else.

Then your understanding of Greek mythology is sadly lacking. The "Trojan House" was built by the Greeks (Microsoft) and left outside the city of Troy (Nokia), the Trojans considered it a victory trophy after the Greeks built it and sailed away. Later a small force of soldiers (Elop) came out to open the gates of Troy which had been under siege for 10 years (not unlike the current 10 year Nokia - Microsoft war).

So as an analogy it stands up pretty well, you may not believe the analogy but that is for history to decide.

Elop was not hired by the board to push WP indeed Elop considered Android before making the WP switch.

Actually it has more to do with the fact that the optics and image processors and sensors on the phones today are crap and 1080P videos don't look any better then their 720 counterparts, they just have more noise and optical blurring. the only phone with optics capable of doing good video at that res is a Nokia, and doesn't run either OS (yet)

Excuses, it has to do exactly with raw processing power alone. As soon as they release WP8 devices with dual-core you'll get 1080p and you can bet those phones will have pretty much the same kind of optics you have on your current phones.

Android certainly does struggle to perform tasks smoothly if the UI is struggling to keep up with the user.

The UI sometimes feels laggy because it has no priority and no vsync, which is why UI smoothness has nothing to do with the actual speed of the running tasks.

Also, Jelly Bean is completely irrelevant as virtually no current phone will ever get it going by Android's history of not supporting updates, and we're yet to see what a mess OEMs will make of it once they add their awful skins. Finally, I very much doubt that it will run as smoothly as WP7 does on the same hardware.

Well call me selfish, but my Nexus S is getting JB and that's all I care about :D

The UI sometimes feels laggy because it has no priority and no vsync, which is why UI smoothness has nothing to do with the actual speed of the running tasks.

Yes I apprecaite that but from a user experience task execution fails regardless of the cause of the lagginess.

Well call me selfish, but my Nexus S is getting JB and that's all I care about :D

Fair enough :)

So if you see no value in graphics acceleration in OS then care to explain why Android gets lower perf and battery life when running on similar hardware as WP7. Some of the early Windows Phones were consistently better in this regard.

Based on Q1 numbers 330,000 might not be far off. Still sceptical but:

"83 million mobile phones were sold during the quarter, of which 71 million were feature phones and 12 million were smartphones. Of those 12 million smartphones, 2 million of them were Windows Phones" ....

So 2 million Windows Phones worldwide.

Then based on market N America only sold 600,000 devices in total so based on these numbers only 14,500 Windows Phones in the first quarter

Europe 15.8

Middle East & Africa 21.4

Greater China 9.2

Asia-Pacific 26.1

North America 0.6

Latin America 9.6

Now my math is crap so others may want to check I am on the right track.

Update: Nielsen has spoken up on how its figures have been used, saying it does not support multiplying its numbers with those of Comscore, as they measure subtly different elements of the market. They added that they therefore "do not feel the 300,000 number is accurate".

Update: Nielsen has spoken up on how its figures have been used, saying it does not support multiplying its numbers with those of Comscore, as they measure subtly different elements of the market. They added that they therefore "do not feel the 300,000 number is accurate".

nielsen said they wont support it that doesn't mean the stats are not true or close.. that means they are not claiming those numbers since the other data is from comscore.. How ever you see WP7 wouldnt have sold more than 500k if we consider error margin.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • US citizens are paying to their government, who could use that to fund healthcare and tuition and relieve the costs of these for citizens instead of making tax breaks that overwhelmingly favor the rich. I'm not saying that tariffs are the correct solution, but what else would they be used for? What else could Trump have in mind for wanting them, if he hasn't figured out that labor costs are higher in the US?
    • I’m in need of a new chair and it sounds like the backrest cannot be locked? I also sat on a Herman miller and was devastated that it couldn’t be locked also, what is going on with chairs. I want to be able to lock the backrest into any position but not even the Herman’s do that
    • Sihoo Doro C300 Pro V2 Ergonomic Office Chair review: The Ikea of chairs by Steven Parker I've reviewed a few gaming chairs over the past three years or so and generally found them to score well in our reviews. SIHOO reached out asking if I was interested in taking a look at their flagship chair, the Doro C300 Pro V2. I never got the chance to check out its predecessor, but the V2 is described as an "Adaptive Ergonomic Chair." It became available to buy in April of this year. Let's get things rolling with a closer look at the specifications and features. Specifications Doro C300 Pro V2 Model Ergonomic Materials Mesh Back and Seat; Soft PU Coated Armrests Height adjustability 45.5 - 53 cm / 17.5" - 20.9" Seat (w+d) 52 x 43 - 47 cm / 20.5" x 16.9" - 18.5" (adjustable) Backrest 52 – 60 cm / 20.5" - 23.6" (adjustable) Lumbar support Mesh built-in (adjustable) Armrest adjustability 8D Bionic Armrests Rocking angle 105°, 120°, 135° (fixed) Neck support Mesh built-in (adjustable) Net weight 27.3 kg / 59.64 lbs Weight support 150 kg / 330 lbs Colors Black, White Warranty 5 years (upon registering) Price $499.99, $539.99 Introduction At first glance, it looks like a chair that in another life wants to be a Herman Miller; It certainly looks like my Aeron Remastered, but the Doro C300 Pro V2 has quite a few more features and costs quite a bit less. SIHOO says that it is made up of a "DynaCore" system that tracks your movement and synchronizes the headrest, backrest, lumbar support, and armrests as you shift, twist, or recline. They also say that the "SyncroFlex Backrest" molds to your spine, which kind of describes how the mesh fabric works in most ergonomic chairs, but anyway. Below are the meat and potatoes measurements for the chair. Here is the same tech sheet, but in inches. Durability I would be remiss to not talk about the various durability testing this chair underwent before coming to market, as this is claimed on the product page. First of all, the chair is BIFMA-, SGS-, and TÜV-certified. As for durability, the tests undergone were: 100,000 Castor cycles tested 120,000 Armrest cycles tested 120,000 Recline cycles tested 120,000 Gas lift cycles tested 60,000 Armrest durability cycles tested 120,000 Rotation cycles tested Nothing about weights testing, though. Now that's all disclosed, now onto my own personal findings. Assembly The Doro C300 Pro V2 came in two large boxes (1) (2), and everything was packed very well, protecting the different parts of the chair. In the box, there is a folded sheet that explains the 12 steps to assemble it; they are: Remove the bottom cover on the aluminum base; Insert the five legs into the aluminum base and use ten screws to fasten them; Insert the castors into the legs; Replace the bottom cover on the bottom of the aluminum base; Place the Class 4 Hydraulics gas cylinder into the aluminum base; Screw the bottom part of the arm rests, taking care of the orientation using two screws on each side; Use three torx screws to fasten the footrest to the bottom of the seat; Fasten the backrest to the seat using four torx bolts; Fasten the armrests to the backrest using four Torx bolts (two on each side), taking care to note the orientation; Place the chair onto the Class 4 Hydraulics gas cylinder; Insert the headrest into the top of the backrest; Use two torx screws to fasten the headrest to the backrest. There's also an online guide you can refer to. Carefully unpacking the two boxes took around 15 minutes because almost everything is wrapped in plastic and protective foam; the chair assembly itself took around an hour. I say in the above assembly steps to take note of the orientation, because it's not obvious which way around the bottom portion of the armrests go, and although there is an L and R on the bottom of the armrests, it also wasn't clear from the instructions which was actually left or right, facing the chair, or in the seated down orientation? Anyway, I ended up putting the bottom portions on the wrong sides, and after securing one of the armrests, I discovered that although it was on the correct side, the armrest base could rotate a full 360°, but not when bolted to the chair, so I had to remove it, rotate it, and then bolt it back on. Truly an Ikea experience! Also, to complicate things further, although all the parts are labeled from A to X (yes, that's 24 parts) unhelpfully, these letters do not appear on the parts themselves or the package with the bolts, screws, and washers. There's also a pair of protective gloves in the box, but I think they were made for much smaller hands than I have. Even my friend, who is 5.1, had difficulty putting them on. Once assembled, I needed to sit down. Anyway, as I said, it looks quite similar to my Herman Miller. And here is the back of it. If you look at the product page and on Amazon, it seems like a lot of thought has gone into the chair itself and what it's capable of, but there is no mention at all about the castors, and this is an area where I think the chair trips up quite quickly. I found it difficult to move the chair in any direction. I asked a friend who came to visit me earlier this week to test my findings, and she said that the wheels were "no good," so it definitely isn't just me. I am 6'2 myself and a big guy, I work from home and gained a few pounds from mostly staying in and the hell away from other people. However, the Doro C300 Pro V2 is rated for up to 150kg (330lbs), which in my case is used well within its max rating. Ergonomics The number of adjustments you can make, right up to setting it in nap mode — which I haven't fully tested yet — is what you'd expect from a premium chair. Yes, you can go up and down (max 7.5 cm adjustment), rock back and forth (with tilt adjustment), and lock the chair between three stages of 105°, 120°, 135°, which is not quite as flat as the AndaSeat I tested at 160°. Some thought has also gone into the "8D" armrests, too, which are cushioned but quite firm; you'll only know it if you press hard into the PU-covered tops, which give about half a centimeter, but it's enough to ensure your skin won't get awkwardly stuck to it in warmer (or sweatier) conditions. It almost feels like plastic and is very easy to keep clean. However, the armrest positions move far too easily, and I am not sure what that "elbow" function is. Maybe it is good for a short person with short arms, anyway, I never used it and kept it flat at all times. There are eight levels of adjustment for the armrests, they are: backwards, forwards, swing left/right, height up and down, tilt, and 360° rotation, which can be handy for desk clearance. As I said, the armrest pads shift far too easily, which could give off an ergonomic vibe, but who wants the armrest sliding when you are shifting weight? The height adjustability does lock into place when lifting and adjusting. Comfort This is ultimately what it boils down to at the end of the day, right? Quite a lot of reviews praise the comfort of this chair, and I don't disagree that the mesh seating is quite comfortable. I am used to the material from my daily Herman Miller. However, the backrest cannot be locked into place, and this is actually a feature; as you shift or recline yourself on the chair, the backrest moves with your body. It took some getting used to. The lumbar gives ample support, but I would have preferred an adjustable one built into the seat base, as this causes the backrest to move up and down at will. Again, as with my previous chair review, this chair is also rated for tall people, but nowhere in the product documentation does it say how tall. Being 6'2 myself, I'm happy to say that the backrest is tall and wide enough, and thought has been given to being able to adjust the neck rest, but as others have mentioned in their reviews, people as tall as 6.2ft is about the limit for the neckrest. Conclusion What I didn't like The footrest is rated for 15kg (33 lbs), which to me seems a bit light, and after looking online, it seems like a chair footrest for adults must be at least twice that rating. In all honesty, they are just hollow metal tubes, so it is not recommended to let a kid sit on them. I also feel like it doesn't really go out far enough for my height, so that kind of puts the dampener on me being able to use it regularly. I'll just have to continue to use my subwoofer as a footrest! I do not like the armrests being able to shift around as easily as they can, and they are a little too forward-positioned in the chair to comfortably sit close to my desk, because even in the lowest height position, they don't allow me to go under the desk like is possible with my Herman Miller. I also feel like this chair could have been delivered partially constructed, especially the armrests on the seat, and why the aluminum base wasn't already pre-constructed (without the castors) is baffling, considering it would have fit in one of the two boxes that way. The instructions also need to be clearer. On the pamphlet, there's an A to X listing (which is also used in the steps), but none of the physical parts use this lettering system! What I did like I'll be honest, I haven't used it for very long, just one week, and seating comfort is subjective after all! Any spills wiped straight off it, the stitching, and the lines look great, not a fray to be seen or stitch out of place. It looks kind of cool, too. My favorite feature of these seats is the nap mode. While you're not lying completely flat, it leans far back enough to make you easily doze off after a heavy gaming or working session. Overall, this chair offers plenty of comfort features. The MSRP does vary quite a bit depending on the region, at £549.99 in the UK, and €580 in Europe, and $599 before tax in the U.S. However, shipping is free, which is a bonus for such a heavy item. Is it worth it, though? At three years' warranty, I think it's a decent deal. Another firm out of Germany sent me a free replacement hydraulic gas spring for a chair that failed after almost four years, so it was well outside its two-year warranty. My advice is to always try, as you might have the same luck I did. If I could fault it at all, it would be the constant shifting of the armrests and backrest. Where to buy Although the footrest variant normally costs $539.99, it has been discounted to $469.99 on the official website in Black or White. In fact, the non-footrest variant is only $40 cheaper. On Amazon, it currently costs more at $499.99 links below. Sihoo Doro C300 Pro V2 for $469.99 (official website) Sihoo Doro C300 Pro V2 for $499.99 at Amazon US SIHOO provided a free sample without any review or pre-approval. Good to know This Amazon link is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • Making US citizens pay is a prominent tool? Joke of the week…
  • Recent Achievements

    • Conversation Starter
      jessse3334 earned a badge
      Conversation Starter
    • Reacting Well
      JuvenileDelinquent earned a badge
      Reacting Well
    • One Month Later
      Excellence2025 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Excellence2025 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      506
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      206
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      151
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      73
    5. 5
      macoman
      62
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!