Nokia only sold 330k Lumia in the US

By still1
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Grand Master

simplezz

Posted
Posted

Lumia's might not have the latest multi-core processors but they generally outperform anything running Android

Except that they don't. Just take a look at any benchmark. What you're talking about is perceived speed, which by its very nature, has nothing to do with actual performance, and everything to do with hiding delays with animations, and maintaining a consistent frame rate, which I should mention is what project butter does.

The reason WP7's UI appears to run smoothly and consistently is down to silverlight running vsynced to the refresh rate of the display. I don't know the details of silverlight et al, but the combination of constant framerate and subtle delays hidden by transitions/animations gives the appearance of smoothness, at least to the human eye anyway. Again, that has nothing to do with actual performance. It's all slight of hand.

and don't suffer from the woeful performance issues that that OS exhibits.

See above. They aren't actual performance issues, just the visible differences in frame rates. Running at a constant framerate like JB does, the UI appears smoother to the naked eye, but it's purely superficial.

Also, I can only speak for the Lumia 800 but it's an extremely well made phone using cutting edge materials and manufacturing processes.

As the UK carriers/operators noted, the Lumia line of phones are 2012 priced for 2009 hardware. Some might be fooled into investing in that kind of outdated hardware, but not me.

Grand Master

jakem1

Posted
Posted

Benchmarks are meaningless when it's obvious to anyone using them that Android phones struggle to perform the most basic tasks smoothly and without lag even though it's running on multicore processors. WP7, on the other hand, runs rings around Android in real-world usage with a fraction of the resources at its disposal.

Grand Master

simplezz

Posted
Posted

Benchmarks are meaningless when it's obvious to anyone using them that Android phones struggle to perform the most basic tasks smoothly and without lag even though it's running on multicore processors. WP7, on the other hand, runs rings around Android in real-world usage with a fraction of the resources at its disposal.

The UI smoothness has nothing to do with how many processor cores it has. It's all about running the compositor at a constant framerate on the GPU vsynced to the refresh rate of the display.

Jellybean's project butter does that for Android, hence why the UI is perceivably smoother. It is only superficial though, and has nothing to do with real performance and benchmarks. There's not a single WP device on the market that even comes close to the slowest Android one in terms of actual performance - javascript execution, graphic throughput, multitasking (well I suppose that one's not fair because WP7 doesn't even have symmetrical multitasking).

Veteran

Depicus

Posted
Posted

Benchmarks are meaningless when it's obvious to anyone using them that Android phones struggle to perform the most basic tasks smoothly and without lag even though it's running on multicore processors. WP7, on the other hand, runs rings around Android in real-world usage with a fraction of the resources at its disposal.

Now that's the kind of statement that simply isn't true. I don't know if you were being sarcastic or just plain blinkered but only the most ardent fanboy could ever say that with a straight face, or you simply haven't seen an Android phone.

Veteran

Alwaysonacoffebreak

Posted
Posted
Except that they don't. Just take a look at any benchmark.

Heavily edited post :)

Neowin is just starting to become the new Tomshardware, "I NEEDZ MOAAAAR CORES!" Time to find a new site I guess.

Veteran

Depicus

Posted
Posted

Go be happy with your multi-core which lasts for a day on battery weise and just shut the hell up about things you clearly don't understand.

Maybe I have a dud Lumia 710 then as my battery barely lasts a day.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

Well Nokia was once described my Microsoft as the enemy they wanted to destroy http://www.economist.com/node/1454300

?We want to fend off Microsoft?we don't want to go the way of the PC business?

And Microsoft don't have a great background in partner relationships http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/01/06/microsofts_masterplan_to_screw_phone/

What does that have to do with it. It's not a trojan horse when he was specifically hired to change the company to WP by the board. For him to have been a trojan horse, they must not have known he used to work for MS, and they must have hired him to do something else.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

Except that they don't. Just take a look at any benchmark. What you're talking about is perceived speed, which by its very nature, has nothing to do with actual performance, and everything to do with hiding delays with animations, and maintaining a consistent frame rate, which I should mention is what project butter does.

The reason WP7's UI appears to run smoothly and consistently is down to silverlight running vsynced to the refresh rate of the display. I don't know the details of silverlight et al, but the combination of constant framerate and subtle delays hidden by transitions/animations gives the appearance of smoothness, at least to the human eye anyway. Again, that has nothing to do with actual performance. It's all slight of hand.

Impressive sleight of hand then, as it has shorter and faster as well as smoother animations than android, with quicker and better transitions. So strop talking FUD and BS. it also scrolls far smoother on far lesser hardware. So I guess Android has those same magic non existent delays then, except it still lags and chugs a lot more.

Grand Master

ichi

Posted
Posted

Benchmarks are meaningless when it's obvious to anyone using them that Android phones struggle to perform the most basic tasks smoothly and without lag even though it's running on multicore processors. WP7, on the other hand, runs rings around Android in real-world usage with a fraction of the resources at its disposal.

Android doesn't struggle to perform tasks smoothly, it sometimes just doesn't (at least until JB, which I havent' tried yet so I can't comment on it) show smooth UI animations, which have nothing to do with the tasks per se.

If it was a matter of struggling with processing you wouldn't be able to play games like ShadowGun smoothly, and you wouldn't be able to record smooth 1080p video.

By the way, can WP phones record 1080p video? No, right? And don't you think that might have something to do with what the benchmark results are showing?

And then you are also paying the same for your phone as other people are paying for phones with newer and faster hardware that support more features.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

The UI smoothness has nothing to do with how many processor cores it has. It's all about running the compositor at a constant framerate on the GPU vsynced to the refresh rate of the display.

Jellybean's project butter does that for Android, hence why the UI is perceivably smoother. It is only superficial though, and has nothing to do with real performance and benchmarks. There's not a single WP device on the market that even comes close to the slowest Android one in terms of actual performance - javascript execution, graphic throughput, multitasking (well I suppose that one's not fair because WP7 doesn't even have symmetrical multitasking).

Sorry, but OS usage IS real world performance, users don't' care about benchmarks with no real world impact.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

If it was a matter of struggling with processing you wouldn't be able to play games like ShadowGun smoothly, and you wouldn't be able to record smooth 1080p video.

Actually it has more to do with the fact that the optics and image processors and sensors on the phones today are crap and 1080P videos don't look any better then their 720 counterparts, they just have more noise and optical blurring. the only phone with optics capable of doing good video at that res is a Nokia, and doesn't run either OS (yet)

Grand Master

jakem1

Posted
Posted

Android doesn't struggle to perform tasks smoothly, it sometimes just doesn't (at least until JB, which I havent' tried yet so I can't comment on it) show smooth UI animations, which have nothing to do with the tasks per se.

If it was a matter of struggling with processing you wouldn't be able to play games like ShadowGun smoothly, and you wouldn't be able to record smooth 1080p video.

Android certainly does struggle to perform tasks smoothly if the UI is struggling to keep up with the user. Also, Jelly Bean is completely irrelevant as virtually no current phone will ever get it going by Android's history of not supporting updates, and we're yet to see what a mess OEMs will make of it once they add their awful skins. Finally, I very much doubt that it will run as smoothly as WP7 does on the same hardware.

Veteran

Depicus

Posted
Posted

What does that have to do with it. It's not a trojan horse when he was specifically hired to change the company to WP by the board. For him to have been a trojan horse, they must not have known he used to work for MS, and they must have hired him to do something else.

Then your understanding of Greek mythology is sadly lacking. The "Trojan House" was built by the Greeks (Microsoft) and left outside the city of Troy (Nokia), the Trojans considered it a victory trophy after the Greeks built it and sailed away. Later a small force of soldiers (Elop) came out to open the gates of Troy which had been under siege for 10 years (not unlike the current 10 year Nokia - Microsoft war).

So as an analogy it stands up pretty well, you may not believe the analogy but that is for history to decide.

Elop was not hired by the board to push WP indeed Elop considered Android before making the WP switch.

Grand Master

ichi

Posted
Posted

Actually it has more to do with the fact that the optics and image processors and sensors on the phones today are crap and 1080P videos don't look any better then their 720 counterparts, they just have more noise and optical blurring. the only phone with optics capable of doing good video at that res is a Nokia, and doesn't run either OS (yet)

Excuses, it has to do exactly with raw processing power alone. As soon as they release WP8 devices with dual-core you'll get 1080p and you can bet those phones will have pretty much the same kind of optics you have on your current phones.

Android certainly does struggle to perform tasks smoothly if the UI is struggling to keep up with the user.

The UI sometimes feels laggy because it has no priority and no vsync, which is why UI smoothness has nothing to do with the actual speed of the running tasks.

Also, Jelly Bean is completely irrelevant as virtually no current phone will ever get it going by Android's history of not supporting updates, and we're yet to see what a mess OEMs will make of it once they add their awful skins. Finally, I very much doubt that it will run as smoothly as WP7 does on the same hardware.

Well call me selfish, but my Nexus S is getting JB and that's all I care about :D

Grand Master

jakem1

Posted
Posted

The UI sometimes feels laggy because it has no priority and no vsync, which is why UI smoothness has nothing to do with the actual speed of the running tasks.

Yes I apprecaite that but from a user experience task execution fails regardless of the cause of the lagginess.

Well call me selfish, but my Nexus S is getting JB and that's all I care about :D

Fair enough :)

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

So if you see no value in graphics acceleration in OS then care to explain why Android gets lower perf and battery life when running on similar hardware as WP7. Some of the early Windows Phones were consistently better in this regard.

Veteran

Depicus

Posted
Posted

Based on Q1 numbers 330,000 might not be far off. Still sceptical but:

"83 million mobile phones were sold during the quarter, of which 71 million were feature phones and 12 million were smartphones. Of those 12 million smartphones, 2 million of them were Windows Phones" ....

So 2 million Windows Phones worldwide.

Then based on market N America only sold 600,000 devices in total so based on these numbers only 14,500 Windows Phones in the first quarter

Europe 15.8

Middle East & Africa 21.4

Greater China 9.2

Asia-Pacific 26.1

North America 0.6

Latin America 9.6

Now my math is crap so others may want to check I am on the right track.

Grand Master

Mockingbird

Posted
Posted

Update: Nielsen has spoken up on how its figures have been used, saying it does not support multiplying its numbers with those of Comscore, as they measure subtly different elements of the market. They added that they therefore "do not feel the 300,000 number is accurate".

Grand Master

still1

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Update: Nielsen has spoken up on how its figures have been used, saying it does not support multiplying its numbers with those of Comscore, as they measure subtly different elements of the market. They added that they therefore "do not feel the 300,000 number is accurate".

nielsen said they wont support it that doesn't mean the stats are not true or close.. that means they are not claiming those numbers since the other data is from comscore.. How ever you see WP7 wouldnt have sold more than 500k if we consider error margin.

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