Nokia only sold 330k Lumia in the US

[Vice]

7.8 Says they're not abandoning them. they shoudl have just named it WP8 and avoided the crap as that's what it is, WP8 for older phones, just like older iphones get limited new iOS versions.

Except apps released targeting Windows Phone 8 won't run on Windows Phone 7.8 devices while Apps written for iOS 6 will run on the 3GS, iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S.

So expect the market place to become very fragmented as developers make the decision of whether to use the newer API's present in Windows Phone 8 or target the older Windows Phone 7 ecosystem and limit what their apps can do.

[BajiRav]

The original article it links to use two 3rd part number to come up with <300k number and it might not be accurate. also it was reported a week ago.

This new estimate is based off Nokia's own official number. so it's more accurate.

T-Mobile selling well could just mean 30k like you said. T-mobile didn't publish any sales number so its hard to interpret selling well.

So out of the 600K, if they sold only 330K Windows Phones then what about the balance 270K? Or did they somehow magically shipped 200K N9s? or People suddenly bought 270K of those dirt cheap prepaid Nokias?

Except apps released targeting Windows Phone 8 won't run on Windows Phone 7.8 devices while Apps written for iOS 6 will run on the 3GS, iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S.

So expect the market place to become very fragmented as developers make the decision of whether to use the newer API's present in Windows Phone 8 or target the older Windows Phone 7 ecosystem and limit what their apps can do.

So Apps targeting iOS6 APIs will magically work on older releases? The phones you list are the phone being sold today and possibly when iOS6 ships. Not entirely direct comparison.

[Vice]

So Apps targeting iOS6 APIs will magically work on older releases?

iOS 6 is being released for the iPhone 3GS. That is a phone that came out several years ago. So if you write an app for iOS 6 it will run on the 3GS. And you can also write an app that will launch and run on iOS5 and iOS6 at the same time. One binary, two different target OS versions and you can choose to include extra API's that will only be used when utilised under an iOS 6 device. But again 3GS, came out in June 2009, still gets iOS 6.

Lumia 900 bought today - Doesn't get Windows Phone 8.

[BajiRav]

iOS 6 is being released for the iPhone 3GS. That is a phone that came out several years ago. So if you write an app for iOS 6 it will run on the 3GS. And you can also write an app that will launch and run on iOS5 and iOS6 at the same time. One binary, two different target OS versions and you can choose to include extra API's that will only be used when utilised under an iOS 6 device. But again 3GS, came out in June 2009, still gets iOS 6.

Lumia 900 bought today - Doesn't get Windows Phone 8.

So? If Apps target 7.8 APIs, they will work on Lumia bought tomorrow. What's different? At least Microsoft has decency to play fair unlike Apple (3G and iOS 5 were a disaster).

Edit: I don't want to defend Microsoft on 7.8 and I think they should have ported WP8 down to at least the second generation Windows Phones. All I am saying that what they are doing is not very different than similar crap that Apple does (3G & iOS5 or 4 & Siri) or Google continues to do with Android.

Edited July 19, 2012 by BajiRav

[Vice]

So? If Apps target 7.8 APIs, they will work on Lumia bought tomorrow. What's different? At least Microsoft has decency to play fair unlike Apple (3G and iOS 5 were a disaster).

I loved my 3GS and it ran iOS 5.0 brilliantly. I think you really need to stop reading this stuff online that people moan about because people only moan when there's a problem and those people who have issues with iOS 5 in combination with the 3GS are doing something wrong or have a faulty device.

And the real problem I have with Microsoft is their abandonment of their devices sold today, even devices sold in the future. Pretty much any phone sold right up until Windows Phone 8 launches has been abandoned and once developers begin to target Windows Phone 8 you won't be able to get those new apps for the old devices but with the iPhone, even the iPhone 3G with iOS 4 or the iPhone 3GS with iOS 5 you can still use the App store and get the latest apps.

Would you buy a new Windows Phone today knowing Windows Phone 8 is coming? I wouldn't. But I know people buying iPhone 4S's today knowing iOS 6 is coming.

[BajiRav]

I loved my 3GS and it ran iOS 5.0 brilliantly. I think you really need to stop reading this stuff online that people moan about because people only moan when there's a problem and those people who have issues with iOS 5 in combination with the 3GS are doing something wrong or have a faulty device.

And the real problem I have with Microsoft is their abandonment of their devices sold today, even devices sold in the future. Pretty much any phone sold right up until Windows Phone 8 launches has been abandoned and once developers begin to target Windows Phone 8 you won't be able to get those new apps for the old devices but with the iPhone, even the iPhone 3G with iOS 4 or the iPhone 3GS with iOS 5 you can still use the App store and get the latest apps.

Would you buy a new Windows Phone today knowing Windows Phone 8 is coming? I wouldn't. But I know people buying iPhone 4S's today knowing iOS 6 is coming.

3G, not 3GS. I edited my previous post. I might be jumbling version numbers but I think the last update to my 3G made it next to unusable.

[still1]

So out of the 600K, if they sold only 330K Windows Phones then what about the balance 270K? Or did they somehow magically shipped 200K N9s? or People suddenly bought 270K of those dirt cheap prepaid Nokias?

Nokia didnt suddenly or magically sold 270k devices.. It has always sold other phones in US but not so much

Nokia sold 1.5 million phones last year during the same period(when Lumia was not even released in US)...

their other phone sales has been reducing in the US market... check the earning sheet its clearly mentioned.

[BajiRav]

On a related note, Microsoft has again ran away from posting actual numbers but at least they say WP units have doubled Q/Q as per slides on MSFT's earnings call.

Look at Slide #12 here

http://www.microsoft.com/global/investor/RenderingAssets/Downloads/FY12/Q4/SlidesFY12Q4.pptx

(I found the snapshot on techcrunch linked from theverge but since I didn't want to link to techcrunch, I took pains to find this :p )

side note: what a horrible PPT theme.

[Mr. Gibs]

On a related note, Microsoft has again ran away from posting actual numbers but at least they say WP units have doubled Q/Q as per slides on MSFT's earnings call.

Rough calculations, IDC said Microsoft shipped 3.3 million WP7 devices in Q1 so if sales doubled then they shipped 6.6 million in this quarter, with about 70-80% of the sales from Nokia.

And the real problem I have with Microsoft is their abandonment of their devices sold today, even devices sold in the future. Pretty much any phone sold right up until Windows Phone 8 launches has been abandoned and once developers begin to target Windows Phone 8 you won't be able to get those new apps for the old devices but with the iPhone, even the iPhone 3G with iOS 4 or the iPhone 3GS with iOS 5 you can still use the App store and get the latest apps.

Would you buy a new Windows Phone today knowing Windows Phone 8 is coming? I wouldn't. But I know people buying iPhone 4S's today knowing iOS 6 is coming.

Eh developers that need specific WP8 hardware features can use the 8 SDK, if you don't need those specific features use the 7.8 SDK and your app will work on both. It's pretty much just a drop down box you choose when you're about to compile your app.

And lets be honest, Apple majorly screwed over iPhone 4 owners when they made Siri 4S only even though it was a simple piece of software that connects to Apple's servers. So they aren't exactly saints ;)

[xeleraph]

7.8 Says they're not abandoning them. they shoudl have just named it WP8 and avoided the crap as that's what it is, WP8 for older phones, just like older iphones get limited new iOS versions.

This is quite frankly the stupidest idea I've heard, and what's surprising is that it even gets repeated so often. Version numbers are there for a reason. When developers see a version number, they know that they can expect a standardized kernel, APIs, and software stack across the board (even if hardware specs might differ across devices). The version number isn't there to appease end users, it's a traditionally important piece of information for developers. The reason that Apple can call iOS 6 for the 3GS as iOS6 is that, even though it lacks Siri, it still shares the same APIs and stacks as iOS 6 on the iPhone 4S and 5, and if any incompatibilities do arise it's going to be due to hardware, not software. Microsoft calling WP7.8 as WP8 when it in fact uses a completely different kernel and APIs is just going to royally **** developers off. It means that they can't effectively target their code for WP8 anymore. It means that you have to write your app twice for the "same" platform, it means that when users report bugs and say they're running WP8 you're going to have to ask them if they're running the real WP8 or the fake one, it means that the SDK and the development process is basically going to be a pile of crap.

[Mr. Gibs]

It means that you have to write your app twice for the "same" platform, it means that when users report bugs and say they're running WP8 you're going to ask them if they're running the real WP8 or the fake one, it means that the SDK and the development process is basically going to be a pile of crap.

No you don't have to.

If you aren't targeting WP8 features, you compile your app for 7.8 (when it comes time to compile there's a dropdown box with the options 7.0, 7.1, 7.8, 8) and then it will work on both WP7 and 8. If you need to target a specific WP8 feature, then yeah you would have to compile your app for 8.

And if a new version comes out, you can easily update your app by changing that target OS to the later one and Visual Studio will automatically take care of adding in the new APIs and such. A good example of this is how people updated their apps from 7.0 to 7.1 (aka 7.5 mango), you just select 7.1, let visual studio do its thing and then your app supports the new features in Mango. Depending on your app you might have to do a tiny bit of extra work just to customize the background caching to your liking (live tiles or w/e) but you don't have to recode the entire thing from scratch.

Microsoft isn't calling Windows Phone 7 Windows phone 8, its calling them 7.8.

[xeleraph]

No you don't have to.

If you aren't targeting WP8 features, you compile your app for 7.8 (when it comes time to compile there's a dropdown box with the options 7.0, 7.1, Tango, 7.8, 8) and then it will work on both WP7 and 8. If you need to target a specific WP8 feature, then yeah you would have to compile your app for 8.

Microsoft isn't calling Windows Phone 7 Windows phone 8, its calling them 7.8.

Actually, that's precisely what I said. I was replying to a post that said MS should call WP7 as WP8.

[Mr. Gibs]

Actually, that's precisely what I said. I was replying to a post that said MS should call WP7 as WP8.

Ah my apologies, I read your post wrong.

[HawkMan]

This is quite frankly the stupidest idea I've heard, and what's surprising is that it even gets repeated so often. Version numbers are there for a reason. When developers see a version number, they know that they can expect a standardized kernel, APIs, and software stack across the board (even if hardware specs might differ across devices). The version number isn't there to appease end users, it's a traditionally important piece of information for developers. The reason that Apple can call iOS 6 for the 3GS as iOS6 is that, even though it lacks Siri, it still shares the same APIs and stacks as iOS 6 on the iPhone 4S and 5, and if any incompatibilities do arise it's going to be due to hardware, not software. Microsoft calling WP7.8 as WP8 when it in fact uses a completely different kernel and APIs is just going to royally **** developers off. It means that they can't effectively target their code for WP8 anymore. It means that you have to write your app twice for the "same" platform, it means that when users report bugs and say they're running WP8 you're going to have to ask them if they're running the real WP8 or the fake one, it means that the SDK and the development process is basically going to be a pile of crap.

WP 8 isn't a version number in any case, which is the important thing you fail to realize. Windows 7 is also not version number 7 (though that's for technical reasons). So they could call it WP8 as much as they want, and it would still be version number 7.8

[HawkMan]

Also as for bug reports, they would be done from the phone in the app market system to the developer which would, guess what, include not only phone type and all the specs of it, but also the OS version.

[xeleraph]

WP 8 isn't a version number in any case, which is the important thing you fail to realize. Windows 7 is also not version number 7 (though that's for technical reasons). So they could call it WP8 as much as they want, and it would still be version number 7.8

Okay. So it'd actually be WP7.8 8. Or WP8 7.8. Or we'd have a WP8 that can't, er, run WP8 apps. Uh huh.

Have you considered the possibility that Microsoft is simply smarter than you are, and realized the obvious that trying to pull a fast one and package WP7 as WP8 is simply going to drain their credibility, both among developers AND consumers, EVEN faster than if they'd just announced that their 3-month-old flagship phone isn't really getting WP8 and be done with it?

[George P Global Moderator]

Why are people just fixated on the low US number? Overall Nokia sold double the WP devices it did in Q1. It sold zero WP in Q1 in the US, afaik, and now they sold a few. Either case, Nokia has been selling more with each quarter since the start. MS has also said that sales have went up 50% Q/Q. So hmm, growing sales, broader carrier support for WP8 on the way (Verizon, US Cellular, probably Sprint once they get tired of getting raped by their ****ty iPhone deal). This things not over anytime soon.

[Xerxes]

Funny how people think Nokia would of been better with Android. Had Nokia decided to make Android phones instead, chances are they would of been sued off the market by now. Their current weakened state would of made them a prime target for patent infringement lawsuits (as they wouldn't be able to defend themselves). Plus MS would "bully" them into paying licensing fees to them anyway. Going with MS was their only choice and in the long term will be the best decision they ever made. This is coming from an Android fan as well. As much as I would love to see Nokia joining the fold, I honestly couldn't see them surviving long because of all the nonsense with patents going on right now.

[still1]

^^ because US market is a huge market and this thread is about lumia sales in US.

[George P Global Moderator]

^^ because US market is a huge market and this thread is about lumia sales in US.

Right, that's why you're fixated on it in the other nokia thread as well. Gotcha.

[still1]

ooooh I think i touched someone's nerve

[Depicus]

^^ because US market is a huge market and this thread is about lumia sales in US.

To be fair the US is not a big market compared to China or India :)

[George P Global Moderator]

Whatever helps you sleep at night man.

[BajiRav]

^^ because US market is a huge market and this thread is about lumia sales in US.

US is a big market but not huge. Sorry to burst your bubble.