blog Where Microsoft Has

[Dashel]

Software is a huge strength at Apple. You clearly have no idea what UX is ... Apple do. Sometimes they go off base a little. But for the most part, they're influencing a lot of designers around the world with their software and user experiences.

How do you figure when the only thing people care to copy is their most recent hardware designs? What software has been influenced by an Apple software design? Last I checked, for good or bad, only Apple software looks like Apple. I think you have the software division confused with marketing.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

What software has been influenced by an Apple software design?

Pretty much everything out there.

Here's a random simple recent example for you. The 10 year old Dock vs. the Windows XP taskbar and the recent Win 8 superbar.

[bj55555]

Pretty much everything out there.

No, that's not hyperbole at all. :rolleyes:

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

No, that's not hyperbole at all. :rolleyes:

Not at all.

[Vice]

eh don't listen to them, people on here have marked me as anti-apple, because I disagreed with Jobs... and branded me Pro MS because I liked Windows, now I am "anti-Microsoft" because I don't like Metro..... never got how I could be anti-everything.... almost like you can't have a time relevant opinion anymore

Your biggest mistake was having an opinion different to someone else. :rofl:

I've been branded Anti-Apple, Pro-Apple, Anti-Microsoft, Pro-Microsoft, Pro-Linux, An Elitist. The amount of monikers I've got on this forum I could open a trophy store.

[myxomatosis]

As much as I hate the new "Podcasts" app (this **** never sees the light if Jobs is still there), I think OS X is 100 times better visually than Windows 8. And yes the "Find Friends" app is ugly.

[Dashel]

Pretty much everything out there.

Here's a random simple recent example for you. The 10 year old Dock vs. the Windows XP taskbar and the recent Win 8 superbar.

That's pretty ****ing funny, yo. Except Quick Launch came with Win98/IE4 so who copied who? I though we were talking about apps, not OSs.

[zhangm Supervisor]

Pretty much everything out there.

Here's a random simple recent example for you. The 10 year old Dock vs. the Windows XP taskbar and the recent Win 8 superbar.

Yeah, that's totally random. Here's another random image for comparison.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

That's pretty ****ing funny, yo. Except Quick Launch came with Win98/IE4 so who copied who?

Quick Launch is what they got rid of. They replaced it with a concept where the method for launching an app vs. switching to a running instance were combined into one, accessible via a single app icon. Which makes a ton of sense. It's been like this from the beginning, in OS X (and NeXTSTEP as well, iirc).

I though we were talking about apps, not OSs.

I thought we were talking about software.

[Dashel]

Sorry, I thought we were talking about applications, not application launchers. (You listed XP, not me)

I thought we were talking design. You are all over the place. If you want to go ADD OT on 'concepts':

Ultimately, the new Taskbar is not Mac-like in any important way, and only the most facile of analyses would claim that it is. Concerns that Microsoft is making Windows too much like Mac OS X are not founded on any real evidence; the similarity is at most skin-deep.

ArsTechnica

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

I thought we were talking design.

We are. You seem to have a very narrow view of 'design'.

From the article you quoted:

The final behavioral change in the Taskbar is that running and non-running applications are mostly combined. Programs can be pinned to the Taskbar, meaning that their icons are visible even when they're not running. In this way, the new Taskbar reduces the separation between launching and switching that the Quick Launch toolbar had; launching and switching are now the same action?click the icon.

It's this last feature?in conjunction with the visual change caused by removing the text labels and increasing the icon size?that is the new Taskbar's greatest overlap with the Dock. Not everyone agrees that launching and switching should be so similar, nor that the visual cues to distinguish between the two should be so slight, but on this point, at least, it seems as though both Apple and Microsoft are in agreement.

[Dashel]

While they may have arrived at a similar place by different roads - MS didn't 'copy' the Dock which was your original silly assertion. Got any other examples of the 'tons' of software applications that use their UI design (besides the OS)? Where are all these skeuomorphs outside of Apple again?

I mean, its obviously clear that iTunes and QuickTime have set the bar for a generation of app developers.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

While they may have arrived at a similar place by different roads - MS didn't 'copy' the Dock which was your original silly assertion.

No it wasn't.My assertion was that pretty much any (noteworthy) software out there nowadays has been influenced by Apple software design. The superbar is an example of that.

Got any other examples of the 'tons' of software applications that use their UI design (besides the OS)? Where are all these skeuomorphs outside of Apple again?

As if all Apple software was full of skeuomorphism. Unless you're including stuff like shadows, 3d buttons, gloss, shading etc. which is indeed part of pretty much any software out there.

On the other hand, Apple has, in modern times, once again pioneered the concept of less is more in software design, and it has caught on in a big way. Just look at what MS is doing with Metro nowadays. You don't think that had anything to do with Apple? You have to see beyond the superficial a bit. Metro doesn't look like iOS, but it surely has similar design goals and was clearly influenced in some way by it.

[rfirth]

On the other hand, Apple has, in modern times, once again pioneered the concept of less is more in software design, and it has caught on in a big way. Just look at what MS is doing with Metro nowadays. You don't think that had anything to do with Apple? You have to see beyond the superficial a bit. Metro doesn't look like iOS, but it surely has similar design goals and was clearly influenced in some way by it.

Now Apple has invented minimalism?

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Now Apple has invented minimalism?

Of course not. I'm sorry if it sounded like that's what I claim. They've just been hugely successful in applying it, and have thereby influenced the industry as a whole.

And I'm not sure I'd even call it 'minimalism', which can easily be pursued for its own sake. It's probably more accurate to speak of reduction to the essential - which I think is not necessarily the same.

[dead.cell]

Microsoft have never been 100% in creating something I like. Even Windows 7 I have customized with a few tweaks to the UI by a Neowin member here to make it look much better. When it comes to Apple's stuff though, I've never had to do that. Even jailbreaking iOS, I could never find anything that really looked any smoother than what Apple provided.

That I guess is irrelevant though since we're all talking about "skeuomorph", something I honestly didn't even pay enough attention to until recent articles mentioned it. I mean, the notepad for example just seems fitting for me. I love yellow tablets (I have no idea why, but I have a stack of 'em here at home) so it never once bothered me to see Apple's implementation. What's the alternative anyway? Black text on a white background? Or maybe Microsoft's sticky note approach? Overall, I'm not sure how big of a deal this really is. I mean, if we want to talk applications on devices, I have some key problems with some of the Microsoft software GUI as well...

For what it's worth, I'm primarily a Windows user. I just don't understand why we can't be critical of Microsoft without someone pointing the finger at Apple saying, "YEAH WELL LOOK AT DEM!!" It's like, so what? I want Windows to be a better experience, that's all. I'll be critical of Apple when I feel it's deserving, but I'm not going to bitch just for the sake of bitching... There's enough people on this forum and elsewhere for that. :p

[Dashel]

No it wasn't.My assertion was that pretty much any (noteworthy) software out there nowadays has been influenced by Apple software design. The superbar is an example of that.

Yet it isn't and you still haven't shown any application that has. iTunes, QuickTime, and Safari are the most recognizable non-iOS Apple applications, yet nothing looks like them (for good reason).

Now Metro is Apple inspired too. :laugh:

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

iTunes, QuickTime, and Safari are the most recognizable non-iOS Apple applications, yet nothing looks like them (for good reason).

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

And Quicktime? Quicktime is totally chromeless?!

[rfirth]

And Quicktime? Quicktime is totally chromeless?!

Typical Apple using fake metal for UI elements.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Apple's windows applications aren't up to par. I'll give you that.

Just compare what IE looked like when Safari was released (2003) and then look at IE nowadays. No influence? Really? Again - not the superficial look (brushed metal at the time ... :pinch: ), but the simplicity of it, the number of UI elements, the overall structure. Etc.

My point is. Apple's software design has been an immense influence on the industry. To deny that this influence even exists just seems ludicrous to me.

[BajiRav]

Metro, in its essence, is quite beautiful. However, it also seems incredibly limited. I haven't seen an information-dense UI yet that looks good in Metro. Case in point: Outlook 2013. Its UI is a total mess.

Skeuomorphism is also limiting, but at least it's possible to denote content priority with something other than font size/weight. Gradients and depth are important.

I think the Zune is the most information-dense metro UI till date. Metro also uses backgrounds to denote content priority as seen on Windows Phone or Office 2013

Apple's windows applications aren't up to par. I'll give you that.

Just compare what IE looked like when Safari was released (2003) and then look at IE nowadays. No influence? Really? Again - not the superficial look (brushed metal at the time ... :pinch: ), but the simplicity of it, the number of UI elements, the overall structure. Etc.

My point is. Apple's software design has been an immense influence on the industry. To deny that this influence even exists just seems ludicrous to me.

Nope. The simplicity ine IE9 has its roots in Longhorn and Windows Media Center. IIRC Quicktime on Windows was a direct clone of the Mac version except for the menubar (obviously)

And Quicktime? Quicktime is totally chromeless?!

If that is QuicktimeX, how is that even a valid argument for you?

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

The simplicity ine IE9 has its roots in Longhorn and Windows Media Center.

Maybe so. Again, I think it's insane to deny the influence that Apple's software design has had on the industry.

If that is QuicktimeX, how is that even a valid argument for you?

It just goes to show how Apple's trying to minimize all extraneous clutter in their UI. Have you heard that goal formulated by anyone else recently?

[rfirth]

I love yellow tablets (I have no idea why, but I have a stack of 'em here at home) so it never once bothered me to see Apple's implementation. What's the alternative anyway? Black text on a white background? Or maybe Microsoft's sticky note approach?

No, that's not an alternative. That's another skeuomorph.

It's more obvious what the problem is when you look at Apple's calendar. Leather at the top. Stitching. And a torn look at the top to simulate that the previous page has been torn off.

It's pretty clear that Microsoft has not be influenced by this Apple style, and is distancing itself as far away from it as possible.

Find My Friends... No consistency with iCal. The fake stitching is different.

Really? But I wonder why they didn't add fake stitching here...

Cool! A fake bookshelf! How thought-provokingly creative!

Photo Booth. Look at the fake wood, curtains, and fake dial on the bottom left.

Contacts! Cool! It's a book!

[Elliott]

I think the Zune is the most information-dense metro UI till date. Metro also uses backgrounds to denote content priority as seen on Windows Phone or Office 2013

I wouldn't call the Zune interface very dense. There's a lot of white space.