smartphones Only Android can refloat Nokia

[Julius Caro]

And they are not killing WP7. If you actually paid attention instead of making nonsensical posts, a lot of the improvements in WP8 are hardware related. How do you put that update on a phone without that hardware? It would be stupid and inefficient. They are instead, being smart about it, and shipping 7.8 for those devices, which contains features that were software only...

true,they're not killing WP7, and it's actually more complicated than that. but come on now. for a couple of years ive heard people saying how microsoft had succeeded at avoiding the fragmentation seen in android, managing updates at the same time on all models and whatever. the result? microsoft stayed too long stuck on the same hardware and with self-imposed limitations like screen resolution. it was always clear to me that once the hardware started upgrading, they wouldnt be able to update the older gens (this is normal obviously). but they took it a step further by coming up with an entire new architecture behind it. which is not bad, considering WP7 was not THAT successful, you can argue that it doesnt affect a vast number of people. on paper WP8 is great. but for nokia it sucks.

[Tom]

This thread is overwhelmed with nonsensical comments. :(

[techbeck]

Maybe, maybe not. Seems like a lot of Android companies are just doing "ok" while Samsung clearly is the winner. Nokia may be able to pull it off with their look/design...but who knows.

Microsoft really needs to start doing more/different advertising. Their smoked contests don't seem to be doing to much for them. Start showing more of what WP can do besides posting to Facebook and checking weather.

[Vice]

I would have bought a Lumia 800 and dumped my iPhone if it ran Android.

And I think the reason HTC is not doing so great right now is because they aren't delivering the best phone. If you look at what android phone is the most popular at any one moment it's the best one. And I don't mean subjectively the best, I mean the one with the best hardware. The most cores, the most ram, the largest screen. The S3 has the best specs of any Android phone on the market and the ones that HTC are selling while great are below the S3 in specifications but almost the same in price so obviously people are going to keep picking Samsung over and over until HTC (or another Android provider) bests it with what the hardware can do.

[Boz]

I would have bought a Lumia 800 and dumped my iPhone if it ran Android.

Same here.. that phone looks beautiful.

[pwgarner]

Sadly I'd have to agree.. they are looking more and more like RIM.

it has nothing to do with Android and everything to do with companies themselves. Samsung seems to be breaking all kinds of records and outselling Apple 2-to-1 with MONSTER profits thanks to Android. So the point is moot. It just shows it's not Android, it's the company making the hardware.

Nokia is more like Samsung rather than HTC.

Silly talk! MS gave Nokia billions of dollars!! That was the important aspect of this relationship. Google chose Moto as a partner, Apple is Apple and Nokia has who to work with? Nokia needs a marketing campaign to stay afloat. Word of mouth is not good enough anymore. Apple advertises like crazy and so does Samsung. We see their commercials all the time. Nokia had the beta test ads and then stopped after about a month. They need to put more money or effort into the phones they want people to buy. A huge marketing blitz on TV not the "smoked" stuff for at least 6 months and I think we would see the needle move.

[still1]

Erm what? That's like saying Apple killed iOS 3. Microsoft isn't killing anything, they are adding support for newer hardware. WP8 add support for hardware, WP7.8 adds software updates.

Wp7 is a platform like IOS but IOS 3 is a version of the platform.

wp7(All version are not getting updated to wp8 platform) underlying kernel and architecture changes

IOS 3 is still in IOS platform and latest IOS 5 is still on IOS platform...

also IOS3 has been updated to IOS 5 unlike just getting wp7.8

[the better twin]

Sadly I'd have to agree.. they are looking more and more like RIM.

it has nothing to do with Android and everything to do with companies themselves. Samsung seems to be breaking all kinds of records and outselling Apple 2-to-1 with MONSTER profits thanks to Android. So the point is moot. It just shows it's not Android, it's the company making the hardware.

Nokia is more like Samsung rather than HTC.

No Nokia is not like Samsung they simply do not have the capacity to pump out endless phones like Samsung and I also question their ability to compete with Samsung's Amoled screens.

There is no evidence to support the suggestion that Nokia would be doing any better running Android would the pureview sell any better running Android and would the Lumia 900 really compete with the Samsung Galaxy S3?

Let's not forget that MS has invested heavily in Nokia which has helped to stem the tide somewhat at least until the true test (WP8) comes out. Additionally where does this notion come from that people are always asking for Android phone the experience I and many other people have is that they ask for the latest HTC or the latest Samsung most people couldn't give two craps about Android.

[techbeck]

Nokia would have had to of switched to Android much sooner in order to have any chance. Now they have a lot of companies to compete against.

[ATLien_0]

Nokia is far from finished in my opinion. In the US they may look down, but man when I was in the mid-east last month everyone that didn't have a smartphone had a Nokia. The biggest thing right now for them is trying to find their place again. Personally I love the Lumia Series phones, and its easy to say they are not doing well when you look at the dominating force behing the iPhone and Android markets. Nokia is playing it right with Windows Phone because it allows them to differentiate themselves. How well do you all really think they would have done competing with the Galaxy SIII if they had gone Android, I would venture to say worse off than they are now.

[techbeck]

How well do you all really think they would have done competing with the Galaxy SIII if they had gone Android, I would venture to say worse off than they are now.

Would be hard now for Nokia to enter the Android market considering how dominate Samsung is. If Nokia started with Android around the same time, then it would be a different story.

[George P Global Moderator]

Not this tired argument again, how many times do we have to bring it up? It's like someone on here has a hard time letting go or moving on. Nokia made it's choice, deal with it. If they sink or swim what do people really care? Companies come and go. Nokias stock went up 11% today, but yeah, they're oh so dead.

[simplezz]

Elop didn't even give MeeGo a chance, that was the problem. The N9 was a much better phone than the Lumia series, and that was almost purely down to the OS. But as Elop said himself - even if the N9 is successful, we'll still drop it. What a CEO!

[still1]

Not this tired argument again, how many times do we have to bring it up? It's like someone on here has a hard time letting go or moving on. Nokia made it's choice, deal with it. If they sink or swim what do people really care? Companies come and go. Nokias stock went up 11% today, but yeah, they're oh so dead.

why cant you let it go?? people who want to argue about it let them argue... people here made their choice deal with it.

[George P Global Moderator]

why cant you let it go?? people who want to argue about it let them argue... people here made their choice deal with it.

U mad bro? I'm not the one making threads over this and always bringing it up am I? How about you try to find someone else to attack?

[simplezz]

The main problem with Windows Phone is its name. Microsoft singlehandedly destroyed the reputation of both the Windows Mobile/Phone and Internet Explorer brands. People simply aren't quick to forget what happened in the recent past.

While I do agree that the brand names Windows and IE are tarnished and nigh on worthless these days, I don't think the whole failure of WP can be blamed just on the name. Clearly the metro/tile UI isn't resonating with consumers either.

The company could have had a fresh start by calling it Metro Phone with a different logo and a proper international launch. They failed at doing both and screwed up on many levels. Real shame and quite frankly unbelievable for a company the size of Microsoft.

A new name would help, but I still think the metro/tile UI is terrible. It just looks fugly compared to the beautiful ICS/JB UI. I know beauty is subjective, but once you've used an ICS Android device, it's impossible to use WP.

So far I'm absolutely loving my Nokia Lumia 900 and the Windows Phone experience. I have no plans buying a Nokia phone again if they decide to switch to Android.

That sounds like a fanboyish response to me. How can you dismiss all future Nokia devices simply because they run Android? I would never dismiss future Microsoft mobile OS's completely. If they improve enough and get good, of course I'll give them a try. I love Android and FOSS software, but not to the point that I'm xenophobic of other OS's just for the sake of fanboyism.

[still1]

U mad bro? I'm not the one making threads over this and always bringing it up am I? How about you try to find someone else to attack?

Thats the same question I asked you on your previous comment(not literally)

if you cant let go people discussing this topic you cant say people to let go the discussion..

I am not trying to attack you but just trying to make my point about ur statement.. if people want to discuss let them discuss

[Max Norris]

A new name would help, but I still think the metro/tile UI is terrible. It just looks fugly compared to the beautiful ICS/JB UI. I know beauty is subjective, but once you've used an ICS Android device, it's impossible to use WP.

Purely opinion of course but strongly disagree here. I have several ICS devices.. and I flat out love my Lumia 900, nothing "impossible" about it. In fact, I'd go and say it actually looks better just for consistency, something which Android has issues with. The underlying OS itself is pretty, I'll give it that, but trying to get all the icons, gadgets, etc to look uniform.. now that's near impossible.

hat sounds like a fanboyish response to me. How can you dismiss all future Nokia devices simply because they run Android?

Again, just my own opinion and can't speak for him, but that's the reason I bought the Lumia in the first place. I didn't want the "yet another Android" phone. If Nokia goes that route, it's likely to be the last one I'd buy too as there's a crapton of Androids out there and the odds of me picking theirs specifically just went way down.

[123456789A]

Another one of these topics? Can you please stick to the original thread instead of making so many of them?

[The Evil Overlord]

I might have stayed Loyal to Nokia if they considered an Andriod OS Phone, I'm not hating on Nokia, it's the only phone make I have ever used consistently in my 20 years of buying phones, I've had the odd Motorola here, the odd Sony there, but always ended up going back, I would like to make it clear I Absolutely LOVED my N8, and asked my Provider (O2 UK) for another N8 as my upgrade, was told no as the device is now obsolete, then asked if I could just extend my warranty if I renewed my contract but kept my old device, was told no again, I know that there are many users that didn't like Symbian, but personally I've never had any problems with it, the only reason I didn't buy a Lumia was because something in the back of my mind kept telling my it's not a great idea, (not that there's anything wrong with Lumia, it just wasn't for me,) then Samsung Smashed me in the face with the S3 and OMG! yes the HTC is a better device but seeing as I convinced O2 to give me the S3 for free (19 years with the same provider, regardless of their countless name changes) I'm not complaining.

But just imagine, with how good Nokia Displays are, and not to mention their build quality, a Nokia Lumia type device running Android...

(I admit, it's not for everyone.)

[FMH]

How do you solve a problem like Nokia?

Keep simplifying?

(They are already doing that! You can't advice someone to do something they are already doing!)

Look to the past

Plenty of people think that while Nokia?s previous strategy was not perfect, it at least had it in control of the full stack: hardware and software.

(Nokia still has full control over both hardware and software. As per the agreement, they can do anything

with the software. In fact, they originally planned a full redesign of WP7, but changed that decision later.

And that also explains how they give features on their phones, which no other OEM can. Plus, they can

also make Apps exclusive to their phones only!)

Go Android

Nokia has already said in the past that it considered working with Google but decided against becoming

just one of dozens of manufacturers building on Android.

Except here?s the problem, Microsoft is not proving to be the partner Nokia expected: the appearance of Microsoft Surface tablet PC shows its apparent willingness to **** off OEMs.

(Whereas, Google hasn't released their own tablet (or bought one of it's hardware maker). Plus, they aren't even selling it at complete loss...)

And the decision to make Windows 8 incompatible with previous versions left Nokia having to rapidly discount Lumia handsets.

(Indeed. All the Android phones will get the latest and greatest Jelly Bean. This is what's Google is

famous for: compatibility. All the Android phones can run any version of Android, and absolutely any App.

Developing for Android is a piece of cake.

And here's the effect WP8 incompatibly is having on current sales.

-1

-2

-3

)

Get rid of Stephen Elop

Like many former Nokia staff, Tomi Ahonen ? now a prominent mobile industry analyst ? is bullish about

the company?s fortunes? if it chooses the right path.

(A prominent mobile industry analyst? Seriously?

It was under his time, that Nokia became a sinking ship, and that Symbian started to lag behind others. It

was under him that Nokia became dirt cheap, not Elop.

Nokia was a sinking ship, long before Elop was hired. And he is now taking major steps in the right

direction.

And as most naval experts would tell you, it's a very hard and times-taking process, to turn around a

sinking ship...)

[Boz]

Not this tired argument again, how many times do we have to bring it up? It's like someone on here has a hard time letting go or moving on. Nokia made it's choice, deal with it. If they sink or swim what do people really care? Companies come and go. Nokias stock went up 11% today, but yeah, they're oh so dead.

It's an argument that comes up for several reasons.

1. A lot of us actually like Nokia and don't want it to end up on a scrapyard while Microsoft shills pluck it away and destroy a great company so they can get their hands on their patents

2. Because Nokia is BLEEDING money and having to take money from Microsoft is just sentencing the company to death over the long haul. It's like taking money from a loan shark.

3. Because not only fans, but a big number of analysts are saying that Nokia HAS to go Android if they want to save the company (if it's not too late already). if they went with Android from the very beginning they would be most likely the dominante smartphone manufacturer on the market now.

[the better twin]

While I do agree that the brand names Windows and IE are tarnished and nigh on worthless these days, I don't think the whole failure of WP can be blamed just on the name. Clearly the metro/tile UI isn't resonating with consumers either.

A new name would help, but I still think the metro/tile UI is terrible. It just looks fugly compared to the beautiful ICS/JB UI. I know beauty is subjective, but once you've used an ICS Android device, it's impossible to use WP.

That sounds like a fanboyish response to me. How can you dismiss all future Nokia devices simply because they run Android? I would never dismiss future Microsoft mobile OS's completely. If they improve enough and get good, of course I'll give them a try. I love Android and FOSS software, but not to the point that I'm xenophobic of other OS's just for the sake of fanboyism.

I believe the complete opposite Android is yet another me too UI that is completely boring and unituitive. It is a mess of icons and apps and is nothing new of the old phone interfaces of yesteryear (symbian etc) with its static layout. Yes it can be customised to your hearts content but stock android is a mess in my opinion. While WP may be difficult to grasp the beauty in static screens it really comes into its own when you show someone the interface. They really need to get a WP into the hands of every sales person as it will shine when given a hand on demo. Windows 8 will probably help mind.

[the better twin]

It's an argument that comes up for several reasons.

1. A lot of us actually like Nokia and don't want it to end up on a scrapyard while Microsoft shills pluck it away and destroy a great company so they can get their hands on their patents

2. Because Nokia is BLEEDING money and having to take money from Microsoft is just sentencing the company to death over the long haul. It's like taking money from a loan shark.

3. Because not only fans, but a big number of analysts are saying that Nokia HAS to go Android if they want to save the company (if it's not too late already). if they went with Android from the very beginning they would be most likely the dominante smartphone manufacturer on the market now.

What complete nonsense you can't change the fortunes of a company like Nokia overnight it was hemoraging money long before it adopted WP and if anything that has actually slowed. I fail to see how going with Android would help Nokia the only company making profits off Android is Samsung and Nokia would not be able to compete. Why is MS giving Nokia money a bad thing it gives both companies huge benefits: Nokia gets investment it would not have got by going with Android as well as being able to modify WP. MS gets a prominent backer for their fledgling OS, as it is not like the other manufacturers have put much effort in. Nokia will not find success over night but come WP8 with the marketing might of MS's fall push (cross windows 8 compatibility etc) they might just turn it around. If anything had they gone with Android they would likely be dead already, they would be losing even more money (no investment) and have to spend money they don't have developing their own skin of Android only to be obliterated by the S3.

[Digitalfox]

People seem to forget history...

Remember Xbox 1?

"Too late to the game, PS2 rules", "Xbox doesn't have any market share", "No major exclusives, it's doomed to be just a hobby project" etc...

And now Xbox 360 is up there with the PS3.

I believe WP7 is just like the Xbox 1, and Microsoft is applying all the knowledge they gained with it in WP8.

So as an iPhone user since 2008, for the first time ever, WP8 makes me think twice if on December I'll stay in iOS platform or move on to WP8. And believe me I'm huge supporter of the iOS platform, but innovation seems to just getting bigger and bigger on WP8.

And nokia doomed? Sorry but I don't believe that... Microsoft will never let it crash and burn...