Shooting at Wisconsin Sikh temple

[chrisj1968]

What exactly are you saying is a lie here? Many times right after an incident takes place the media/police/what ever don't always have the correct info so what gets reported may not always be correct but saying something is a lie is saying that it's deliberate. Misinformation doesn't equate to a lie.

the Official narrative is that it was a lone gunman. but this report shows that it was "multiple" gunmen. I look for things like this. usually what the government says is a lie anyway.

an example of the official narrative STILL being played out. http://hosted.ap.org...-08-05-15-14-22

[mudslag]

the Official narrative is that it was a lone gunman. but this report shows that it was "multiple" gunmen. I look for things like this. usually what the government says is a lie anyway.

So now some kid who's parents were there and CNN who reports what the cops thought is now considered a gov lie? Again misinformation doesn't equate to a lie, it equates to misinformation. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[chrisj1968]

So now some kid who's parents were there and CNN who reports what the cops thought is now considered a gov lie? Again misinformation doesn't equate to a lie, it equates to misinformation. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.

you didn't listen to the video DID you? He stated his parents were inside the temple during the incident. I've said my peace.

[compl3x]

AR-15's can be used to hunt and are often used in varmint hunting as well. It was used in the Aurura shooting yes but it jammed quickly after he tried using it. He used a shotgun and a glock .40 for the majority of the shootings. It looks military to you so that means we can't have them right?

Lucky for the other people in the theatre it jammed, I suppose?

It's not because it "looks military" it's because of what it is capable of.

[Richteralan]

So now some kid who's parents were there and CNN who reports what the cops thought is now considered a gov lie? Again misinformation doesn't equate to a lie, it equates to misinformation. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Misinformation can have several levels.

Also when mass media keep repeating the misinformation without correcting it later, does that still considered misinformation? And that misinformation transferred to millions of people watching TV, does that still considered misinformation?

[Southern Patriot]

The list I quickly threw together is no way extensive and I'd assume there are far more I've missed. I'd consider 5 6 shootings in the last 2 years pretty regular.

Not really in a country with over 300,000,000 people. That's statistically an incredibly small percentage of the population involved in them, even including the perps and the victims.

[Richteralan]

Not really in a country with over 300,000,000 people. That's statistically an incredibly small percentage of the population involved in them, even including the perps and the victims.

Right. Not surprising.

/s

[SupportGeek]

Lucky for the other people in the theatre it jammed, I suppose?

It's not because it "looks military" it's because of what it is capable of.

No, you are incorrect, its because it looks military or "evil" plain and simple.

If it was "because of what it can do" then why are only assault weapons being blamed?

There are plenty of wooden stocked (or not) firearms out there that could not be mistaken for AR-15s or AK-47s, yet fire the exact same rounds, just as quickly, yet no one is trying to ban them. As an off the top of my head: Ruger Mini 14.

Proving Its all about fear propagated by politicians the antigun media and emotional reactions to deal with that fear.

[FlintyV]

Not really in a country with over 300,000,000 people. That's statistically an incredibly small percentage of the population involved in them, even including the perps and the victims.

What does a population size have to do with how often something happens?

I'd consider one of these kind of shootings enough to look at legislation rather than 'only 12 people died so we'll carry on'..

[mudslag]

Misinformation can have several levels.

Also when mass media keep repeating the misinformation without correcting it later, does that still considered misinformation? And that misinformation transferred to millions of people watching TV, does that still considered misinformation?

You right misinformation can have several levels. Based on the video posted, at the time both the boy being interviewed and the police, again at that time, thought there could be more then one shooter. If the misinformation was intentional then one could argue that it was a lie but nothing here begins to even suggest that. Even if that misinformation that there are possible multiple shooters is sent out to all of those watching, it doesn't indicate intentional lying. It's still misinformation. To make the suggestion that this is nothing more then a gov lie, well that person needs to loosen the tin foil hat.

[HSoft]

What does a population size have to do with how often something happens?

Usually quite a bit. Probabilities.

[compl3x]

No, you are incorrect, its because it looks military or "evil" plain and simple.

If it was "because of what it can do" then why are only assault weapons being blamed?

There are plenty of wooden stocked (or not) firearms out there that could not be mistaken for AR-15s or AK-47s, yet fire the exact same rounds, just as quickly, yet no one is trying to ban them. As an off the top of my head: Ruger Mini 14.

Proving Its all about fear propagated by politicians and emotional reactions to deal with that fear.

Guns don't look "evil" to me. I simply don't understand the use for automatic or semi-automatic weapons in civil society. What are people protecting themselves against? For when the British return?

It's such a cheap trick to imply people don't like the look of, or fear the look of, guns and that is why they want them to be regulated.

Not really in a country with over 300,000,000 people. That's statistically an incredibly small percentage of the population involved in them, even including the perps and the victims.

So if the deaths by gun violence reached a certain number, you'd be willing to change your stance on gun control?

Like, I don't know, 1 million people annually. Hypothetically, of course.

[FlintyV]

Usually quite a bit. Probabilities.

Doesn't really explain why the increase in recent years.

[Routerbad]

What does a population size have to do with how often something happens?

I'd consider one of these kind of shootings enough to look at legislation rather than 'only 12 people died so we'll carry on'..

Legislation is a last resort in a governmental experiment such as ours. Also, there is no legislation save an amedment of the constitution to allow the kind of gun control you are talking about.

Population has quite a bit to do with everything. These types of events are going to happen regardless of how much states or the fed try to legislate things away. There are a lot of people with varying personalities and situations in the US. Most of these would go away with proper mental health attention, as most of the people involved in these off the wall shootings have snapped for some reason or another.

[FlintyV]

Legislation is a last resort in a governmental experiment such as ours. Also, there is no legislation save an amedment of the constitution to allow the kind of gun control you are talking about.

Population has quite a bit to do with everything. These types of events are going to happen regardless of how much states or the fed try to legislate things away. There are a lot of people with varying personalities and situations in the US. Most of these would go away with proper mental health attention, as most of the people involved in these off the wall shootings have snapped for some reason or another.

The US government were quick to legislate something like the Patriot Act after 9/11. :/

[Richteralan]

You right misinformation can have several levels. Based on the video posted, at the time both the boy being interviewed and the police, again at that time, thought there could be more then one shooter. If the misinformation was intentional then one could argue that it was a lie but nothing here begins to even suggest that. Even if that misinformation that there are possible multiple shooters is sent out to all of those watching, it doesn't indicate intentional lying. It's still misinformation. To make the suggestion that this is nothing more then a gov lie, well that person needs to loosen the tin foil hat.

How can you know if the misinformation is intentional or not? This argument can go both directions, too. And why asking anything about the government means tin foil hat to you?

Isn't some skepticism healthy instead of blind faith in government and mass media?

[Southern Patriot]

It's not because it "looks military" it's because of what it is capable of.

An AR-15 is often mistakenly called an assault rifle by the media because it resembles many military guns, however it is no more "capable" than any other semi-auto hunting rifle. In fact, it is less capable than many of them, with a shorter range and smaller caliber rounds.

[Southern Patriot]

Guns don't look "evil" to me. I simply don't understand the use for automatic or semi-automatic weapons in civil society. What are people protecting themselves against?

You've obviously never been hunting large game or trying to take down a wild animal threatening your property or livestock. A semi-automatic rifle is almost a necessity in cases like that. Automatic weapons are extremely difficult to get legally anyway, and incredibly expensive, so they are generally only owned by criminals (who acquire them illegally) or collectors.

[SupportGeek]

Guns don't look "evil" to me. I simply don't understand the use for automatic or semi-automatic weapons in civil society. What are people protecting themselves against? For when the British return?

Automatic weapons, while available, are very expensive to obtain, from the cost of owning, to the actual firearms price, they are effectively banned to everyone except the super rich.

Society is far from civil, there are criminal elements everywhere. I dont want to use a flintlock to protect my home and family, nor should I be limited to that type of firearm, I must have access to a modern semi-automatic firearm, its the only way to ensure I can get enough rounds on target to stop the threat.

It's such a cheap trick to imply people don't like the look of, or fear the look of, guns and that is why they want them to be regulated.

How exactly is it a trick when its highlighted by the fact that there are PLENTY of firearms functionally identical to AR or AK pattern firearms, they use the exact same round, they have the same semiautomatic action, and removable magazines, but looking nothing like them the politicians and public are not screaming for them to be banned as well.

I notice you conveniently ignored that in your reply however.

To reinforce the idea of banning because it looks evil - Politicians have been shown to want to ban things on looks alone, again a fact, look up "The shoulder thing that goes up" comment from Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, who wished to ban/regulate barrel shrouds, again proving that those writing the laws have no idea what they are banning. Only that it looks terrifying to them and "normal people" cannot have them.

[HSoft]

Doesn't really explain why the increase in recent years.

No, but answers your question "What does a population size have to do with how often something happens?"

[Southern Patriot]

The US government were quick to legislate something like the Patriot Act after 9/11. :/

And many (maybe most) of us feel that much of that law was unconstitutional as well.

[Richteralan]

And many (maybe most) of us feel that much of that law was unconstitutional as well.

So any actions?

[mudslag]

How can you know if the misinformation is intentional or not? This argument can go both directions, too. And why asking anything about the government means tin foil hat to you?

Isn't some skepticism healthy instead of blind faith in government and mass media?

What reason is there to jump the gun that it's intentional? In that video posted, there are two different sources suggesting that there is more then one gunman, one of whom has no suggested relation to gov in anyway. In many similar cases like this, the initial news reports are not always 100% accurate. The media often tries to get something reported as quickly as possible. That doesn't mean the media is 100% free of not following up but at the same time that in no way means the jump to intentional should be the first option. Nor does reporting initial reports, even if wrong is the work of the gov.

And when people like ChrisJ say they specifically look for misinformation like this and accuse the gov as the reason for it, it screams of tin foil material. Healthy skepticism would be saying the media is rushing to report breaking news and offers up the first available info they come across.

[Richteralan]

What reason is there to jump the gun that it's intentional? In that video posted, there are two different sources suggesting that there is more then one gunman, one of whom has no suggested relation to gov in anyway. In many similar cases like this, the initial news reports are not always 100% accurate. The media often tries to get something reported as quickly as possible. That doesn't mean the media is 100% free of not following up but at the same time that in no way means the jump to intentional should be the first option. Nor does reporting initial reports, even if wrong is the work of the gov.

And when people like ChrisJ say they specifically look for misinformation like this and accuse the gov as the reason for it, it screams of tin foil material. Healthy skepticism would be saying the media is rushing to report breaking news and offers up the first available info they come across.

Only if the media will report the correct info afterward. And I bet none of the mass media will.

[mudslag]

Only if the media will report the correct info afterward. And I bet none of the mass media will.

Iv seen CNN and Fox both correct reports to earlier reports a lot. The night of the Co batman shooting the initial reports were of more killed then what really happened, they later came back and corrected that initial claim. By assuming the media doesn't correct reporting is no different then ChrisJ assuming misinformation is a gov intentional lie.