Windows Live Essentials 2012 is out. But should you install it?

[derviskemal]

Enjoy your dinosaur hardware and software then!

Roar

[KRazpopov]

For example,I stopped using Firefox after they stopped making Firefox 3.6. Because Firefox 4 and above version are not the same as Firefox 3.6

So now I use Pale Moon 3.6 which is the same as Firefox 3.6 and updated regular.

boolean loop = true

while loop do {

print ("You can easily make current versions of Firefox look exactly like 3.6. Just like you can make WLE 2011/2012 look almost like WLE 2009. I hope that at least this time you read this post and stop using old software, just for the excuse that you can't make the new version look the same. Besides, you need to adapt to change.")

}

end

[Martog]

There is no progress in technology if you don't make changes. Look at Windows 8? Are you going to stop using Windows 8 because the Start Menu has disappeared and now the Start Screen? It is not like the old version anymore. So I suppoe you should never use Windows 8, ever.

And I love how she keeps avoiding how I and others have stated she's in the vast minority complaining about the WLE 2011 and MWE 2012 changes. There's a heck a lot more hooplah going about Windows 8 Start Screen than the new UI that was introduced in WLE 2011 and continues in MWE 2012.

I'm waiting for the day 64bit Windows client is the only version available, she won't upgrade to 64bit as she chersihes some unknown 16bit applications and apparently has no idea what virtulization is.

[Boo Berry]

Who uses 16-bit applications in this day and age outside of virtualization? Seriously?!? What 16-bit applications are there that people like her can't live without?

Andrea Borman = living in the past

[Dot Matrix]

Who uses 16-bit applications in this day and age outside of virtualization? Seriously?!? What 16-bit applications are there that people like her can't live without?

Andrea Borman = living in the past

Dunno. She never specified. Probably an old version of Paint or Solitaire from Windows 3.1. Lol.

[Boo Berry]

Well in that case perhaps an 'upgrade' to Windows 3.1 is in her future?

[Martog]

Who uses 16-bit applications in this day and age outside of virtualization? Seriously?!? What 16-bit applications are there that people like her can't live without?

Andrea Borman = living in the past

As a home user, no idea. We still have a customer running a DOS based POS system with several Windows 98 computers. They won't spend the money to upgrade, but business is generally a bit different. 99.99% of home users using Windows I would have hoped to ditch 16bit apps by now.

Every now and then I feel like loading up Sim City 2000 on my Virtualized XP since it's 16bit lol.

[grayscale]

In case you weren't able to read it (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt):

Here's my challenge to you. Install WLE'12 on your Windows 8 machine, and then FORCE YOURSELF to use it for 2 weeks in a row WITHOUT going back to WLE'09 at all (even for a minute).

After that time, go back to WLE'09 and see if it's as good as you remember it..

You obviously have a problem about forums and threads. Yes, I read 2 posts from your blog. Your rant against Neowin and the one about Expert Laws so at the very least try reading the posts of other members without the "I'll read it but I've already made my decision" attitude. I don't know how bad your experience is at the other forums and I don't really care (pretty please, don't tell it here) but did you not think that the problem may not be on the forums but on the way you discuss it with them? You seem to be just ignoring posts that will actually help you.

[Andrea Borman]

XMac wrote-

print ("You can easily make current versions of Firefox look exactly like 3.6. Just like you can make WLE 2011/2012 look almost like WLE 2009. I hope that at least this time you read this post and stop using old software, just for the excuse that you can't make the new version look the same. Besides, you need to adapt to change.")

Or you can just download and install the current version of Pale Moon browser 3.6.

Here-http://www.palemoon.org/

Which is the same as Firefox 3.6. And there is also a Pale Moon 12 which is the same as Firefox 12. Both versions are up to date.

Lord Venom wrote-

Also, you probably shouldn't use Windows 8 or 7 for that matter. Perhaps an 'upgrade' to Windows XP is in your future?

A lot of people do see Windows XP as an upgrade. And a lot of homes and offices in England,anyway, are still using Windows XP now.

Windows XP is faster than Windows 7.And you would think it was only made 2 months ago and not 10 years ago. Andrea Borman.

[Martog]

Or you can just download and install the current version of Pale Moon browser 3.6.

Here-http://www.palemoon.org/

Which is the same as Firefox 3.6. And there is also a Pale Moon 12 which is the same as Firefox 12. Both versions are up to date.

A lot of people do see Windows XP as an upgrade. And a lot of homes and offices in England,anyway, are still using Windows XP now.

Windows XP is faster than Windows 7.And you would think it was only made 2 months ago and not 10 years ago. Andrea Borman.

Palemoon is at version 12 and is the same code base as Firefox 12? It is out of date. Firefox is at version 14.0.1 if you did not know that. Oops, out of date software?

And show your proof that XP is faster than Windows 7 on a brand new machine, or even faster than Windows 8 which has even more performance improvements. I also dare you to prove that XP is better on a Solid State Disk vs Windows 7 and 8. Also XP does not properly support Advanced format hard drives. Yes you can still get it on there but it's a workaround by the manfuacture but can still have performance issues.

Also if I was on XP, how could I utilize DirectX 10 or 11? Both Exclusive to newer OS's. How could I use the new sound system that was introduced? The improved kernel changes, networking, printing features? How could I use more than 4GB of RAM when XP 32bit (Let's not go into XP x64 as it's a dertitive of Windows Server 2003 and largely unsupported now) and I constantly am using over 4GB. I personally use Internet Explorer, I would be stuck on 8 if I was still on XP, 9 and 10 are vast improvements (more devs need to hop on making addons). How would I be able to run Office 2013 when it only supports Windows 7 and higher? Microsoft is starting to phase out support for new applications on XP as it is out of mainstream support and nearing end of life. We have less than two years before it leaves extended support.

[Andrea Borman]

But I have got IE8 on both Windows Vista and Windows 7. And it's better than the horrible IE9. Which is no good for a slower version of Windows like Windows Vista. And no good on Windows 7 either. Andrea Borman.

[f0rk_b0mb]

Windows XP is faster than Windows 7.And you would think it was only made 2 months ago and not 10 years ago. Andrea Borman.

Oh for Christ's sake.

[KRazpopov]

Or you can just download and install the current version of Pale Moon browser 3.6.

Here-http://www.palemoon.org/

Which is the same as Firefox 3.6. And there is also a Pale Moon 12 which is the same as Firefox 12. Both versions are up to date.

A lot of people do see Windows XP as an upgrade. And a lot of homes and offices in England,anyway, are still using Windows XP now.

Windows XP is faster than Windows 7.And you would think it was only made 2 months ago and not 10 years ago. Andrea Borman.

?? ?????? ?? ?? ? ?????

What I was trying to say, was that you didn't need to switch to another browser in order to keep the same UI. I guess you didn't pick up on that, which doesn't really surprise me.

Also, if you think XP is faster than 7, then you're making a huge mistake. On a netbook it may be faster, but on a decent laptop or desktop (which most people have), XP would run much worse. Compare XP and 7 on a Core i7 2600k for instance, and you'll see that 7 is blazing fast and much more optimized for modern hardware than XP.

And stop thinking that IE 9 is worse than IE 8 until you've actually tried it out on a normal computer and not an 800MHz netbook POS!

[Ambroos]

Or you can just download and install the current version of Pale Moon browser 3.6.

Here-http://www.palemoon.org/

Which is the same as Firefox 3.6. And there is also a Pale Moon 12 which is the same as Firefox 12. Both versions are up to date.

A lot of people do see Windows XP as an upgrade. And a lot of homes and offices in England,anyway, are still using Windows XP now.

Windows XP is faster than Windows 7.And you would think it was only made 2 months ago and not 10 years ago. Andrea Borman.

Pale Moon 3.6 is legacy software, they even say so on their website. The difference between Firefox 3.x and 14 for example is actually quite small once you get used to it.

And Windows XP is definitely NOT faster than Windows 7 and nobody would think it was made 10 years ago. On any recent computer with enough RAM Windows 7 is far, far faster than Windows XP ever was/will be. Of course if you buy outdated slow netbooks then Windows XP might run a bit faster. But the problem there isn't Windows, it's your netbook.

Andrea, I think you need to learn what legacy software actually is. Legacy software (like Firefox/Pale Moon 3.x or Windows Live Essentials 2009) is software that is no longer maintained. It's software that has problems but doesn't get fixed. Legacy software is oftenly made available to download just as a last option for systems that cannot be upgraded. Windows XP by now is pretty much a legacy OS too. It receives security updates, but it has stopped receiving any functionality updates or improvements years ago now.

As I've said before in my other post in another one of your topics, almost all of the problems you experience are caused by yourself. If Skype won't work it's probably because you are using an old, incompatible version of your webcam driver. Or you have a conflict with another installed application. But I can assure you the problem is not Skype.

I give up. As long as you are not willing to accept what other people are saying to you, you will keep experiencing the same problems over and over. I don't know if you realize it, but we are trying to help you. The majority of us here knows far more about computers than you do, and some of us (like me) either have or are studying for a degree in Software Development or related topics. We are not your enemy, let us help you. Listen to what we have to say, try things out. When something like Skype doesn't work just try it again, and again, and again until it works.

[Andrea Borman]

Ambroos wrote-

Pale Moon 3.6 is legacy software, they even say so on their website. The difference between Firefox 3.x and 14 for example is actually quite small once you get used to it.

No Pale Moon is updated at least once a month. I could download and use Firefox 3.6. But I don't have to do that when I can use Pale Moon 3.6. Which is exactly the same as Firefox 3.6. And is updated on a regular basis.

Firefox 3.6 is no longer supported and there are no updates for it. But Pale Moon 3.6 is supported. Andrea Borman.

[Ambroos]

No Pale Moon is updated at least once a month. I could download and use Firefox 3.6. But I don't have to do that when I can use Pale Moon 3.6. Which is exactly the same as Firefox 3.6. And is updated on a regular basis.

Firefox 3.6 is no longer supported and there are no updates for it. But Pale Moon 3.6 is supported. Andrea Borman.

Credit where it's due, you are right. Pale Moon is still supported when it comes to security fixes, but it's still unable to provide a satisfying experience when surfing the web. There are so many new HTML5 and CSS3 techniques that web developers can use to create websites that look absolutely amazing, but you can't use them in Firefox 3.6. The same goes for Internet Explorer 9, all websites look much better in IE9 than they do in IE8 or older browsers. Even on the Pale Moon website they state that 3.6 is only really meant for people who really need it because of incompatible plugins, toolbars etcetera. "Because it is easier" or whatever is not a valid excuse. You'd still be much better of with the newest Firefox version (14), Google Chrome, Internet Explorer 9 or Opera. All four of them are much faster, safer, and better at handling websites using new techniques.

And you obviously read my post, why did you ignore the rest of it? Could you please respond to the other things I've said?

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Just use Trillian.

she said and I quote "I can't figure out how to use trillian, it is unusable by everyone" 0_o

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Read the Microsoft Answers Forum on this thread here 32 pages long. And you will see exactly how many people feel about Windows Live Essentials 2011 version.

Here-http://answers.micro...74-52505bbbf290

They don't like WLE 2011 version. And neither do I. That's why we stay with WLE 2009 version.

And Microsoft may have released WLE 2012 version. But nobody will upgrade to it. That's all. I and most people are staying with WLE 2009 version. Andrea Borman.

no s**t they're on there talking about how they don't like it, no one who likes it is going to care enough to go on there

[Andrea Borman]

Ambroos wrote-

Credit where it's due, you are right. Pale Moon is still supported when it comes to security fixes, but it's still unable to provide a satisfying experience when surfing the web. There are so many new HTML5 and CSS3 techniques that web developers can use to create websites that look absolutely amazing, but you can't use them in Firefox 3.6. The same goes for Internet Explorer 9, all websites look much better in IE9 than they do in IE8 or older browsers. Even on the Pale Moon website they state that 3.6 is only really meant for people who really need it because of incompatible plugins, toolbars etcetera. "Because it is easier" or whatever is not a valid excuse. You'd still be much better of with the newest Firefox version (14), Google Chrome, Internet Explorer 9 or Opera. All four of them are much faster, safer, and better at handling websites using new techniques.

Well I am very happy with Pale Moon 3.6. And I also use Safefox which is based on Firefox 3.5. There are many Firefox clones,Comet Bird,based on Firefox 12, and Wyzo,based also on Firefox 3.6.

But IE9? No Never. I will never install IE9.

And I will never install WLE 2012 version or WLE 2011 version. I am staying with WLE 2009 version.Andrea Borman.

[Yogurtmaster]

Well we have got WLE 2009 version,which is the latest version on our Windows XP. So I don't see why we can't have it on Windows Vista and Windows 7. And WLE 2009 and Messenger 2009 is working on my Windows 8. Andrea Borman.

It's free. It's not like you paid for it. Maybe you should take some computer courses?

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

The problem is that we like a software and get used to it. And then when they make a new version of the software,it is completely different from the old version.

For example,I stopped using Firefox after they stopped making Firefox 3.6. Because Firefox 4 and above version are not the same as Firefox 3.6

So now I use Pale Moon 3.6 which is the same as Firefox 3.6 and updated regular.

It's the same problem with WLE.WLE 2011 and WLE 2012 is so different from WLE 2009 version that some people don't want to use it.

I don't mind updating my software. But not to a version that is not like the old version. Microsoft should have just made WLE 2011 and 2012 the same as WLE 2009 and previous versions. Not like it is now. Andrea Borman.

No, the problem is your inability to cope with change. I don't think you realize that changes need to be made for the sake of progress. You shouldn't stop using software just because it looks different. In most cases, other changes are made to improve the software's performance, compatibility, and to fix bugs.

I've been using WLE 2011 since it was first released because I prefer to keep my software up-to-date. Once I learned about WE 2012, I installed it without hesitation. You claim that it looks worse than WLE 2011 but what you don't understand is that it's almost identical in appearance. What I mean by that is the UI hasn't changed. If you're interested in the changes they've made, I recommend you read this article.

If software developers had the same mindset as you, we'd still be using Windows 1.0:

[Andrea Borman]

Well you could install Windows 3.1 but it would not do anything. It would not connect to the Internet. I don't think so anyway.

But keeping WLE 2009 is not the same as trying to use Windows 3.1 is it?

And WLE 2012 is only in Beta at the moment, so it may not be stable.

We have a choice on Windows 7,Windows Vista, and Windows 8 to use WLE 2009,WLE 2011. And on Windows 7 and Windows 8 also WLE 2012.

But I choose WLE 2009 version. It's the best version. Andrea Borman.

[f0rk_b0mb]

But keeping WLE 2009 is not the same as trying to use Windows 3.1 is it? Andrea Borman.

Yes. It is using outdated software. Please grasp the concept before I slam my head into my keyboard.

[KRazpopov]

Well you could install Windows 3.1 but it would not do anything. It would not connect to the Internet. I don't think so anyway.

But keeping WLE 2009 is not the same as trying to use Windows 3.1 is it?

And WLE 2012 is only in Beta at the moment so it may not be stable.

We have a choice on Windows 7,Windows Vista and Windows 8 to use WLE 2009,WLE 2011. And on Windows 7 and Windows 8 also WLE 2012.

But I choose WLE 2009 version. It's the best version. Andrea Borman.

You can't install windows 3.1 on modern hardware, because it's a 16-bit operating system.

And I didn't see a message on the Microsoft website anywhere, stating that WLE 2012 is a beta. Meaning you just made that up right now.

And no, WLE '09 isn't the best. It's outdated, doesn't have as many functions and the UI isn't as intuitive.

Yes. It is using outdated software. Please grasp the concept before I slam my head into my keyboard.

Lol.

[~Johnny]

I'd like to remind our members that insulting other members still isn't allowed on Neowin yet :p. If you don't have anything good or helpful to say, it's probably best to just stay away and let the thread die out, not posting pointless comments.

Otherwise, try posting some cold hard facts and articles - if they get ignored, so be it, you tried - and there are plenty of other fun threads here to concern your attentions with. You may also find a handy ignore button lying around, if you'd ever find a reason to want such things.

So, if you're not posting on topic, PLEASE DON'T POST. Thanks.