Windows 8 Is a Desktop Disaster

[fobban]

All they can do is bitch about non issues, they have no valid argument against it other than they think it's cool to hate it. It has been proven time and time again that it does nothing but increase productivity and make it easier for everyone to use their computer.

How exactly does it increase the productivity?

I've been running Windows 8 as my primary OS since the preview, and overall it's great. But when it comes to the new interface (call it whatever you like) it certainly hasn't increased my productivity a bit. By learning the keyboard shortcuts you can get away without too much productivity loss, but most things are an extra or two clicks away.

My new favorite shortcut is Win+X :).

Also, they should really fix the search so I don't need to specify where I want to search. Searching for items under Settings simply suck.

Windows 7: Win, type "adm", press enter

Windows 8: Win, type "adm", press down, press down, press enter, press enter

[The King of GnG]

I've seen a couple of Windows-8 based computers at a local retailer, it nearly made me puke. And the mouse cursor got blocked after loading a couple of ****ty "Windows 8-style apps". The future....

[Dot Matrix]

Don't make ridiculous statements like this with nothing to back it up.

I'll provide some.

Windows 8 offers extraordinary desktop improvements for multi-monitor workstations. Something Windows 7 will never have.

It's fast. Faster than Windows 7.

It can run on any form factor. Windows 7 cannot.

OS Customization synchronization.

Support for new input technologies.

De-emphasis on the desktop pardadigm.

Sets up Windows for future expansion.

Drops legacy code, cleaning up and slimming down the codebase.

[ViperAFK]

I'll provide some.

Windows 8 offers extraordinary desktop improvements for multi-monitor workstations. Something Windows 7 will never have.

It's fast. Faster than Windows 7.

It can run on any form factor. Windows 7 cannot.

OS Customization synchronization.

Support for new input technologies.

De-emphasis on the desktop pardadigm.

Sets up Windows for future expansion.

Drops legacy code, cleaning up and slimming down the codebase.

I didn't say it has no advantages, your statement was ridiculous because because you said anyone with any criticisms of windows 8 is wrong, and that its perfect in every way. You were being absurd. A statement like that is just as bad as the people saying windows 8 is the worst thing ever.

[FloatingFatMan]

Comments inline in bold.

I'll provide some.

Windows 8 offers extraordinary desktop improvements for multi-monitor workstations. Something Windows 7 will never have.

Yet somehow, UltraMon is still better. :p

It's fast. Faster than Windows 7.

Subjective and highly dependant on your hardware. Startup is faster, sure; but once that's done, I've not really noticed any difference.

It can run on any form factor. Windows 7 cannot.

Incorrect. Windows 8 runs on the same form factors as Windows 7. WP8 and WinRT are not Windows 8.

OS Customization synchronization.

So?

Support for new input technologies.

Windows 7 can handle touch screens too, you know.

De-emphasis on the desktop pardadigm.

Not necessarily a good thing.

Sets up Windows for future expansion.

So far, this is just rumour. We'll have to see how often Microsoft release updates.

Drops legacy code, cleaning up and slimming down the codebase.

Both a good and bad thing. Removing the start menu from the desktop was a mistake IMO. Sure, it'll go in time, but they should have retaining it for W8 and then lost it in W9. Gives people time to get used to the new Start Screen whilst still retaining some familiarity.

I don't hate Windows 8; in fact, it's my primary OS and has been since it hit MSDN a while ago. I've even now deleted my Windows 7 partition. But it's not perfect. It has some flaws, it's not always better than Windows 7, and it's VERY jarring for the average user to get used too.

Sure, they'll figure it out, but it's a pretty steep learning curve.

[Shane Nokes]

How exactly does it increase the productivity?

I've been running Windows 8 as my primary OS since the preview, and overall it's great. But when it comes to the new interface (call it whatever you like) it certainly hasn't increased my productivity a bit. By learning the keyboard shortcuts you can get away without too much productivity loss, but most things are an extra or two clicks away.

My new favorite shortcut is Win+X :).

Also, they should really fix the search so I don't need to specify where I want to search. Searching for items under Settings simply suck.

Windows 7: Win, type "adm", press enter

Windows 8: Win, type "adm", press down, press down, press enter, press enter

Windows 8: Win+W, type adm, press enter

One additional key used, but same number of steps as 7.

I've seen a couple of Windows-8 based computers at a local retailer, it nearly made me puke. And the mouse cursor got blocked after loading a couple of ****ty "Windows 8-style apps". The future....

Doesn't happen here at all. Sounds like they have something setup wrong.

Also if you have that violent of a reaction to seeing a computer I would hate to see what happens when you meet people in real life who don't meet with your approval. I've met many people I've found far more disgusting than PC's on a daily basis.

Do you have to keep one of those airline vomit bags with you everywhere you go?

[justinalot]

No one likes change. But so far everyone has had very valid points. I was suprised at how the younger generation have been able to use Win8 far more quickly than adults. Once you get past the odd looking start Menu which is in fact the same as we had before but just bigger and it fills up the screen.... If you just start pressing the WIN key instead of looking for the start button then it really does not matter.

Children seem to have no problem using the new Windows and in fact they get more functionality from it. No more silly advert pop ups and having to install extra programs, it just works for them, if it does not work they dont care they just do somewthing else, so its up to the providers of the content to fix there issues now... Not for MS to make multiple fixes all of which cause different problems for different users. Yes its Apple centric, and I am not an apple fan at all, but you have to be honest At least there products work across the board, unlike MS products which have so many variants and so many odd errors that its beyond a joke it just seem to me that MS were having to FIX everyone elses issues.

[Dot Matrix]

Yet somehow, UltraMon is still better. :p

Maybe so. But I'm not a fan of clogging my machine with utilities. Windows 8 now allows me to work with both of my monitors, without having to gimp along with a half ass multi-mon US like Windows 7 provided.

Subjective and highly dependant on your hardware. Startup is faster, sure; but once that's done, I've not really noticed any difference.

You should. All my machines boot instantly, and are quick to shut down.

Incorrect. Windows 8 runs on the same form factors as Windows 7. WP8 and WinRT are not Windows 8.

They share the same kernels. You can move from OS to OS with little code change. To move from WP to Win7, would require massive code changes. Also, you're running Windows 7 on a tablet? I feel sorry for you.

So?

Am I the only one here you loves setting a theme on the desktop, and not have to bother setting it on my other devices?

Windows 7 can handle touch screens too, you know.

You, I, and the general buying public have a very different definition of "handle". Sure, you can maybe poke at it, but what the hell are you doing with touch on Windows 7? Windows 8 takes this to a whole new level.

Not necessarily a good thing.

It is. Some PC form factors just don't need it, and provided an awful UX in return. My HTPC can tell you that.

So far, this is just rumour. We'll have to see how often Microsoft release updates.

I'm not just talking about updates, I'm talking also about future releases. Did you really expect to be using the 9x UI for much longer? Dragging it out would have only served to shoot Microsoft in the foot as new form factors mature, and take off.

Both a good and bad thing. Removing the start menu from the desktop was a mistake IMO. Sure, it'll go in time, but they should have retaining it for W8 and then lost it in W9. Gives people time to get used to the new Start Screen whilst still retaining some familiarity.

Removing the Start Menu was a necessary thing. As Brandon Live put it, keeping it in just dragged down the UX, and increased support. It didn't support what they wanted to do, so they changed it. It unifies Microsoft's platforms, and provides an attractive visualization, no matter which form factor you're working on.

[Wrathier]

I love Windows 8 Pro, just bought it to replace my Windows 7 Ultimate on my main game rig.

The first thing I did, was to buy an extra program called START8 from here: http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/download.asp

So now I basically have a totally normal Windows 7 start menu on the desktop and can access the Metro UI for fast emailing, weather etc. - Kind of cool.

You can also integrate a start menu for free by using: http://lee-soft.com/vistart/ however, it is not as good as the real thing.

Cheer,,

Wrathier

[Noir Angel]

Windows 8 offers extraordinary desktop improvements for multi-monitor workstations. Something Windows 7 will never have.

I don't use a multi monitor setup

It's fast. Faster than Windows 7.

Only in boot speed, and some improvements to the DWM backend. And apparently even then according to most benchmarks the differences to gaming are minimal at best.

It can run on any form factor. Windows 7 cannot.

Incorrect, Windows 7 could run on anything that 8 could run on apart from ARM machines. Whether Windows 8 would be easy to use on a tablet is another matter, however it could be done.

OS Customization synchronization.

It takes me all of 10 seconds to get Windows 7 how I like it, I just point it to my folder of wallpapers and get rolling.

Support for new input technologies.

Windows 7 already has touch support, just not a touch enabled UI

De-emphasis on the desktop pardadigm.

That's only a positive if you're actually not using a desktop. I am, I didn't pay ?1,400 to turn my PC into a tinkertoy

Sets up Windows for future expansion.

How so?

Drops legacy code, cleaning up and slimming down the codebase.

Not really, the only "legacy" code removed was the parts that enabled the start menu and that was only a tiny bit of the Windows codebase anyway. If you added WMC back into the install image I wager it would be almost the same size as Windows 7.

[Dot Matrix]

Sets up Windows for future expansion.

How so?

I'm not just talking about updates, I'm talking also about future releases. Did you really expect to be using the 9x UI for much longer? Dragging it out would have only served to shoot Microsoft in the foot as new form factors mature, and take off.

[Noir Angel]

If the rest of Windows ends up like the start screen that won't be progress, it will be backwards evolution. And on the day that happens Microsoft will lose my custom for good.

[Shane Nokes]

OK. Bye. *waves*

[Noir Angel]

Are you sure it was Microsoft, and not Apple you used to work for? ;)

[FloatingFatMan]

Maybe so. But I'm not a fan of clogging my machine with utilities. Windows 8 now allows me to work with both of my monitors, without having to gimp along with a half ass multi-mon US like Windows 7 provided.

It still needs more utility to be as handy as Ultramon. I, for example, want to keep the taskbar available on my secondary monitor, but on my primary, I want it to bugger off as I use that for gaming, but I game in Windowed mode rather than full screen because there's a whole bunch of games I play that just don't alt-tab very well.

You should. All my machines boot instantly, and are quick to shut down.

I don't consider startup and shutdown times to be particularly important, mainly because they're not tasks I'm doing a lot of. Actually USING the OS, now that's where I want my speed increases, and there really isn't any detectable difference there. Also, not every has, wants or can afford expensive SD drives.

They share the same kernels. You can move from OS to OS with little code change. To move from WP to Win7, would require massive code changes. Also, you're running Windows 7 on a tablet? I feel sorry for you.

Irrelevant in the context of Windows 8 running on more form factors. Windows Phone 8 and Windows RT are not Windows 8, nor is the Kernal alone, Windows 8. Windows 8 itself runs on all the same form factors as Windows 7, period.

Am I the only one here you loves setting a theme on the desktop, and not have to bother setting it on my other devices?

All your devices look the same. How boring.

You, I, and the general buying public have a very different definition of "handle". Sure, you can maybe poke at it, but what the hell are you doing with touch on Windows 7? Windows 8 takes this to a whole new level.

Again, irrelevant. Windows 8 does not support more input methods than Windows 7. It has improved support for touch, yes.. But it doesn't have MORE, which is what I was commenting on.

Removing the Start Menu was a necessary thing. As Brandon Live put it, keeping it in just dragged down the UX, and increased support. It didn't support what they wanted to do, so they changed it. It unifies Microsoft's platforms, and provides an attractive visualization, no matter which form factor you're working on.

Again, so? Just because Brandon supports it, and you support it, doesn't mean that everyone in consumer space supports it. Most people absolutely HATE change when it's thrust upon them, so it's better to wean them onto it slowly rather than go for the sudden "culture shock" of completely changing everything they know about the OS. You'll get better acceptance with the masses that way.

The Start button is absolutely something MS should have taken slow. At the very least, they should have had a visible button on the desktop that took you back to the Start screen, so people actually had a clue as to where to go.

[Dot Matrix]

The Start button is absolutely something MS should have taken slow. At the very least, they should have had a visible button on the desktop that took you back to the Start screen, so people actually had a clue as to where to go.

There is a visible button on the Charms Bar. Also one on the keyboard.

[FloatingFatMan]

There is a visible button on the Charms Bar. Also one on the keyboard.

It's not visible unless you know that you have to put your mouse over in the top right corner and do a little flick motion. That's not helpful at ALL.

Also, sure there's the WinKey; but that's not really what average folks are used to, and MS really shouldn't be forcing people to go back to the keyboard all the time when it's a mouse driven UI (on the desktop at least). Gestures are fine for tablets, not for desktops.

It's kinda like shutting W8 down. People just say "press the power button", and yeah that works great. BUT, Microsoft have spent YEARS telling people to never ever shut their PC off that way, but to use the Start menu to do it so that everything is closed down safely. Now, all of a sudden, all change! It just confuses people.

[Shane Nokes]

Are you sure it was Microsoft, and not Apple you used to work for? ;)

I know exactly where I've worked. :p

I've also seen this type of posting a million times about every product ever made by every company.

It's not visible unless you know that you have to put your mouse over in the top right corner and do a little flick motion. That's not helpful at ALL.

Also, sure there's the WinKey; but that's not really what average folks are used to, and MS really shouldn't be forcing people to go back to the keyboard all the time when it's a mouse driven UI (on the desktop at least). Gestures are fine for tablets, not for desktops.

It's kinda like shutting W8 down. People just say "press the power button", and yeah that works great. BUT, Microsoft have spent YEARS telling people to never ever shut their PC off that way, but to use the Start menu to do it so that everything is closed down safely. Now, all of a sudden, all change! It just confuses people.

It's only mouse driven if that's what you choose to use. I prefer to use all methods available to me to complete tasks.

I mean why have a keyboard at that point then? Just pull up the virtual keyboard and forget that a real keyboard exists...after all it sounds like you think the keyboard is archaic. ;)

[Noir Angel]

I don't remember this much polarisation about Windows 7, your memory must be pretty selective :D

And given that Tihiy was able to re-enable the start menu with a simple hook DLL, they cannot even have removed a massive amount of the code.

[Shane Nokes]

Saying that I've seen people post dramatic exit posts about every product ever made means my memory is selective?

I don't think the word selective means what you think it means...

I can guarantee you if you find me a product I can find you somewhere on the internet where someone has made a post stating that due to Product123 they will never buy anything from CompanyXYZ again.

The Internet is full of thousands if not millions of examples of such postings...it's not unique...which is why I'm ok with being flippant about it.

Also Tihiy wasn't able to re-enable anything simply. Even Tihiy says very explicitly that while some of the code is still there (for jump lists) that his tool is still very 'hacky' and there are still many issues and kinks.

It's not a ton different from other methods...and in fact some of those other methods are better since they avoid playing with some of the things he messes with.

[Dot Matrix]

It's not visible unless you know that you have to put your mouse over in the top right corner and do a little flick motion. That's not helpful at ALL.

Also, sure there's the WinKey; but that's not really what average folks are used to, and MS really shouldn't be forcing people to go back to the keyboard all the time when it's a mouse driven UI (on the desktop at least). Gestures are fine for tablets, not for desktops.

It's kinda like shutting W8 down. People just say "press the power button", and yeah that works great. BUT, Microsoft have spent YEARS telling people to never ever shut their PC off that way, but to use the Start menu to do it so that everything is closed down safely. Now, all of a sudden, all change! It just confuses people.

So wait then. You're saying no matter what, "average folks" don't do anything but sit and stare at their computer? They don't move the mouse, they don't use the keyboard, blah, blah... So what do they do?

Also, where are you getting that you have to "flick" open Charms with a mouse? Just put the cursor in the corner and wait a second for Charms to open. No "flicking" involved.

[FloatingFatMan]

It's only mouse driven if that's what you choose to use. I prefer to use all methods available to me to complete tasks.

I mean why have a keyboard at that point then? Just pull up the virtual keyboard and forget that a real keyboard exists...after all it sounds like you think the keyboard is archaic. ;)

I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about average folks. People like my wife, who uses her laptop purely for surfing the web and email, and a little bit of YouTube. I tried her with Windows 8 and she -hated- it. Nothing was where she could find it. She doesn't use keyboard shortcuts, hell, she can barely type above a couple of words a minute. She wants to click the start button to load her apps, she wants to choose whatever app she's running in the easy to see list on the task bar. She doesn't to faff around trying to hit hotspots or guess where they might be hiding.

After a week of trying, she made me put W7 back on her laptop.

Like I said. -I- like Windows 8 and it's my primary OS. But it's not perfect, and MS have taken a few questionable decisions.

[Noir Angel]

Saying that I've seen people post dramatic exit posts about every product ever made means my memory is selective?

I don't think the word selective means what you think it means...

I can guarantee you if you find me a product I can find you somewhere on the internet where someone has made a post stating that due to Product123 they will never buy anything from CompanyXYZ again.

The Internet is full of thousands if not millions of examples of such postings...it's not unique...which is why I'm ok with being flippant about it.

Also Tihiy wasn't able to re-enable anything simply. Even Tihiy says very explicitly that while some of the code is still there (for jump lists) that his tool is still very 'hacky' and there are still many issues and kinks.

It's not a ton different from other methods...and in fact some of those other methods are better since they avoid playing with some of the things he messes with.

Well if all of the code isn't there of course it's going to be 'hacky'. And yes I am still saying your memory is selective because with Windows 7 those people were in the vast minority, with Windows 8 they seem to be at least on an even split, maybe leaning towards more dislike once you visit a forum that isn't full to brimming point of shills like MSFN.

[Shane Nokes]

Every new OS version has a learning curve. Things are in different places, change names slightly, etc.

All you had to do was tell her to move the mouse all the way to the bottom left (like she was already doing before) and click and there's the new start menu.

That's a method using the mouse entirely. Move the desktop tile to the top left stop and if she wanted to stay on the desktop then she can just click on the bottom left and hit enter.

No keyboard shortcuts needed now to get in and out of the desktop & new start screen...in and out entirely with a mouse (other than hitting enter).

[FloatingFatMan]

So wait then. You're saying no matter what, "average folks" don't do anything but sit and stare at their computer? They don't move the mouse, they don't use the keyboard, blah, blah... So what do they do?

They want to use something that they know how it works. They really don't want to faff around learning all new ways of doing stuff that, for them, isn't as good as what they're used too.

Also, where are you getting that you have to "flick" open Charms with a mouse? Just put the cursor in the corner and wait a second for Charms to open. No "flicking" involved.

Sure, you can wait and waste even more time if you like. Just don't go moving that mouse even 1 single pixel whilst you're waiting, and don't you dare try clicking on that pixel either, because both are going to close that damn charms menu, lickety split! :p