Windows 8 Sales are actually Amazing - 40 million sold

By spudtrooper
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Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

Additionally, countless Windows programs depend on this functionality as this allows them to ensure they open the default browser instead of figuring out what browsers users have installed (the app sends the url to the API as if it were a file to execute). So it isn't that arcane or odd.

I'm not sure if you're serious or not... But if you are... I'd recommend you read some of the fundamentals of the craft such as Hunt's The Pragmatic Programmer and understand why the DRY Principal he mentions is considered a fundamental part of software engineering.

You can also Google it... But actually learning the concepts is far more important.

The point is that the search dialog uses entirely different code and calls form the run dialog, but it can still do the same thing. Sure they could use the old run dialog code to do stuff the search dialog can already do. OR they could more effectively just let the search dialog do all the stuff itself, more efficiently and without calling other code.

OR is your idea of effective coding to first check if the code is a call for a local executable (btw at this point, it can already execute it), then if it finds out it is, then it passes on the call to the run dialog...

seriously, THINK about it.

and if hands are already on the keyboard it's slower just to take your hands off the keyboard and put it on the mouse.

win+e then type. allt+tab then type, win+# then type.

normally the site I'm looking for is already open in one of my 30+ tabs though.

Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

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  • MVC
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The point is that the search dialog uses entirely different code and calls form the run dialog, but it can still do the same thing. Sure they could use the old run dialog code to do stuff the search dialog can already do. OR they could more effectively just let the search dialog do all the stuff itself, more efficiently and without calling other code.

OR is your idea of effective coding to first check if the code is a call for a local executable (btw at this point, it can already execute it), then if it finds out it is, then it passes on the call to the run dialog...

seriously, THINK about it.

win+e then type. allt+tab then type, win+# then type.

normally the site I'm looking for is already open in one of my 30+ tabs though.

No, my point is the RUN dialog and the Search function "run" capabilities share the same underpinnings. Otherwise, MS would be violating the DRY principal by having two separate pieces of code doing the same thing in two places. The RUN dialog and the "run" functionality in search are merely two separate windows into the same room.

Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

It's far from even being a Windows-only (or even OS/distribution-only) dilemma - look at the earlier-in-this-thread comparison between Adobe Creativity Suite (CS) products and Microsoft Office products; even on OS X - which has far greater UI cohesiveness than even Windows pre-8; look at how the Adobe CS products behave within that UI compared to Microsoft Office products. Different approaches to the same problem. Heck - just look at the differences between Pagemaker and Word (again, on OS X, not Windows).

Don't necessarily disagree with your point or conclusion but comparing Adobe Graphic Design software to Office Products, and PageMaker (InDesign for some time now :) to Word, is like comparing apple's to oranges.

and if hands are already on the keyboard it's slower just to take your hands off the keyboard and put it on the mouse.

I don't know about that one. We're so well trained, even novice users can slide that right hand over and grab that mouse pretty darn quick.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

No, my point is the RUN dialog and the Search function "run" capabilities share the same underpinnings. Otherwise, MS would be violating the DRY principal by having two separate pieces of code doing the same thing in two places. The RUN dialog and the "run" functionality in search are merely two separate windows into the same room.

Except they don't, the search dialog by it's function has to do thing other ways than the run at an earlier stage, and at that stage it can already launch the app. so they don't share the same principles, not in any meaningful way that would make it any way sensible for them to share the same code.

Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

it's not just the start screen. it's metro apps in general. The messaging map give you absolutely no option to turn it off. it's on perpetually and everytime someone sends me a message it give me no way to stop the annoying pop-up box on the desktop informing me I have a message. Trying to uninstall that particular app uninstalls 3 or 4 others including the calendar and mail, and people apps. This is a product that Microsoft should truly be sorry for. This is the 'batman and robin' of OS's. I get why they tried to do and I think that's cool. It was executed so horribly

I agree with you, Metro apps, particularly Microsoft's, are unfinished and IMO, and an embarrassment. The decision to bundle the core messaging apps was a choice.

I wouldn't write of Windows 8 though. Aside from the apps, and that is big, I only truly miss unified search and the ability to perform context actions on the result with the click of a mouse. You can still do that if you search with Explorer in the desktop environment. The Modern UI simply will not be able to duplicate that productivity.

Someone here used fast an efficient in the same sentence with Modern UI Search. I need some of whatever they're smoking.

Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

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  • MVC
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Except they don't, the search dialog by it's function has to do thing other ways than the run at an earlier stage, and at that stage it can already launch the app. so they don't share the same principles, not in any meaningful way that would make it any way sensible for them to share the same code.

I think you're completely missing what I'm saying here... The RUN dialog has to pass its "run" command to the OS to tell it to execute the application. The Start Screen "run functionality" has to do the exact same thing. Sure, it has to do searches and a variety of other tasks, but once it has decided it needs to do "run functionality" then it has to pass that off to the OS somehow. Unless you're implying that the Start Screen is executing that code itself independent of the OS it is running on?

The RUN dialog really isn't doing anything but calling whatever API endpoint MS has exposed for starting processes. I'm sure this is the same endpoint used by Explorer itself and all over the OS.

The dialog itself was not what I was referring to.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

I think you're completely missing what I'm saying here... The RUN dialog has to pass its "run" command to the OS to tell it to execute the application. The Start Screen "run functionality" has to do the exact same thing. Sure, it has to do searches and a variety of other tasks, but once it has decided it needs to do "run functionality" then it has to pass that off to the OS somehow. Unless you're implying that the Start Screen is executing that code itself independent of the OS it is running on?

The RUN dialog really isn't doing anything but calling whatever API endpoint MS has exposed for starting processes. I'm sure this is the same endpoint used by Explorer itself and all over the OS.

The dialog itself was not what I was referring to.

That's completely irrelevant of your original argument though, as that's the execution call, which is used not just by run, Search, but also shortcuts, other programs, start screen, ANYTHING that launches ANYTHING on the OS. and is not even part of the run dialog as such. just something it uses on the same line as search.

This was not your argument, you said the run dialog had to be kept and that search used the run dialog code. that is something completely different form using the execute call. The run dialog is far more than just the execute, call, which again isn't part of it, but rather part of the core OS.

Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

That's completely irrelevant of your original argument though, as that's the execution call, which is used not just by run, Search, but also shortcuts, other programs, start screen, ANYTHING that launches ANYTHING on the OS. and is not even part of the run dialog as such. just something it uses on the same line as search.

This was not your argument, you said the run dialog had to be kept and that search used the run dialog code. that is something completely different form using the execute call. The run dialog is far more than just the execute, call, which again isn't part of it, but rather part of the core OS.

This thread has been moving pretty quickly today so I'll forgive you for pulling my statements out of context.

I never said the run dialog had to be kept. I merely stated that it should be kept.

I later responded to a post from Dot Matrix that stated the run dialog should be removed because the code is redundant. My point was simply that the code doing the same task between the two isn't repeated and is most likely shared, as long as MS adhered to good engineering principals.

Veteran

scaramonga

Posted
Posted

It's a great read this thread :) One trying his best to outdo the other, neither getting anywhere, both arriving back at the same start position :woot:

Great for a giggle at the end of a hard day.

Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

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  • MVC
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It's a great read this thread :) One trying his best to outdo the other, neither getting anywhere, both arriving back at the same start position :woot:

Great for a giggle at the end of a hard day.

Very much agreed. I needed the distraction from work ;)

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted

You're talking about using a consumer-oriented OS like some kind of nerd's plaything, which is never going to happen. You're most likely the one person still using the archaic run dialog that should have been stripped from windows in Windows 7.

Dot, you know better than that - I have personally told of using the Runbox in Windows 8 (and Server 2012, for that matter) to avoid two issues that have plagued all versions of Windows (desktop and server) - desktop-shortcut clutter and (starting with Vista/7) Taskbar-Superbar pin clutter. (With the Start menu itself gone, my biggest reason for leveraging Run also went away - however, that does NOT take away from the usefulness of the Runbox - especially since it's the ONE area that the addition of Index Server to the Windows core - starting with Windows 2000 - has always and never-failingly worked.)

The more I use an application, the LESS likely I am to create either a desktop shortcut OR pin said application to the Taskbar or Superbar, for the simple reason that I can Runbox the application in question. (Thanks to Index Server, the Run dialog actually has a memory - it remembers the fifteen last-used commands, batchfiles, scriptlets (including PoiwerShell scriptlets) - and it's been in there since Windows 2000. That is, in fact, why I don't miss the application shortcuts that Office hasn't created by default since Office 2003 for ANY of the applications - Office 2000 only created a shortcut for Outlook by default.)

Contributor

I am Not PCyr

Posted
Posted

It's a great read this thread :) One trying his best to outdo the other, neither getting anywhere, both arriving back at the same start position :woot:

Great for a giggle at the end of a hard day.

what ever he says he gets you doing it wrong..

and i'd say they are losing if this was a debate.

atleast i tried to sya linked to the topic at hand lol

some of these cheerleaders lose it and go off about using the mouse for 13 pages or whatever lol

why would zoom in on one micro aspect of how this one guy uses windows ?

insist "he's doing it wrong" ?

DotMatrix what is you deal buddy ?

I'm really wondering if you have issues or something..

Why are people not allowed to have their own way of using windows or opinions other than butt kissing about win 8 ?

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

DotMatrix what is you deal buddy ?

I'm really wondering if you have issues or something..

Why are people not allowed to have their own way of using windows or opinions other than butt kissing about win 8 ?

I'd rather see Microsoft streamline Windows. Strip away the outdated components, and unify what's left. Unless you're Andrea Borman, do we really need compatibility all the way back to the earliest days of the desktop? Do we really need options for every damn little toggle in the OS? Do we need all this excess baggage in Windows?

Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

I'd rather see Microsoft streamline Windows. Strip away the outdated components, and unify what's left. Unless you're Andrea Borman, do we really need compatibility all the way back to the earliest days of the desktop? Do we really need options for every damn little toggle in the OS? Do we need all this excess baggage in Windows?

So, you want MS to throw out Windows and start fresh? You should ask Netscape how that worked out for them...

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

So, you want MS to throw out Windows and start fresh? You should ask Netscape how that worked out for them...

It's essentially what they've started to do with Windows 8.

Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

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  • MVC
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It's essentially what they've started to do with Windows 8.

Not really. They are trying new tricks on the old horse hoping to get it ahead in a new race, but they are racing the same horse. If they were to seriously kick legacy support in Windows to the wayside to the extreme you want they will fade to history faster than the Olson twins.

In the new race they want Windows to get into MS has no serious pull with consumers or developers so they need that legacy card to offer them some possible advantage.

Luckily for them you're not running the show otherwise they'd be looking a lot like RIM.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

Not really. They are trying new tricks on the old horse hoping to get it ahead in a new race, but they are racing the same horse. If they were to seriously kick legacy support in Windows to the wayside to the extreme you want they will fade to history faster than the Olson twins.

In the new race they want Windows to get into MS has no serious pull with consumers or developers so they need that legacy card to offer them some possible advantage.

Luckily for them you're not running the show otherwise they'd be looking a lot like RIM.

Extreme? If your app is pre-XP then that's on you. If your company is still actively deploying crap that's pre-2001, that should be on you, not Microsoft. Any code pre-2000's should be considered fair game for the chopping block. To be honest, any reputable software maker should be up to date with Windows 7.

But, yes, they are essentially starting over with Windows 8.

Start Menu - GONE.

Networking window - GONE.

Old Search window - GONE.

Dialog boxes - GONE.

etc...

Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

Extreme? If your app is pre-XP then that's on you. If your company is still actively deploying crap that's pre-2001, that should be on you, not Microsoft. Any code pre-2000's should be considered fair game for the chopping block. To be honest, any reputable software maker should be up to date with Windows 7.

That's where you show how truly clueless you are. Each Windows release builds upon the last. So the #1 software on Windows depending on pre-XP code is Windows itself! If MS drew a line in the sand and stripped anything pre-XP then Windows 8 wouldn't even boot...

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

That's where you show how truly clueless you are. Each Windows release builds upon the last. So the #1 software on Windows depending on pre-XP code is Windows itself! If MS drew a line in the sand and stripped anything pre-XP then Windows 8 wouldn't even boot...

Vista+ was coded from the Server codebase, not XP. Anything stripped can be replaced by Modern components or unified elsewhere in the system. The Control Panel for one should have been unified under the Modern UI. Microsoft can finally get rid of all these damn control widgets that plague the OS.

Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

Posted
  • MVC
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Vista+ was coded from the Server codebase, not XP.

:huh: And the "Server code base" came from where? Do you honestly think MS rewrites Windows from scratch regularly? Surely you're not that delusional Dot.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

:huh: And the "Server code base" came from where? Do you honestly think MS rewrites Windows from scratch regularly? Surely you're not that delusional Dot.

Do we really need to go all the way back? My point being is, Windows carries so much legacy baggage that it's overdue for a complete overhaul. At some point in time you have to draw the line. A similar point passed around Vista's time. You saw what happened with XP... it was being picked apart by malware after malware. Now, Windows is being picked apart by slimmer, more agile operating systems. Surely that's not cause for concern? Did you not just read the news where users are concerned with the amount of space Windows takes up? Buy a 32 GB Windows tablet, and tell me, how much space do you have left? What do you want Microsoft to do?

Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

Do we really need to go all the way back? My point being is, Windows carries so much legacy baggage that it's overdue for a complete overhaul. At some point in time you have to draw the line. A similar point passed around Vista's time. You saw what happened with XP... it was being picked apart by malware after malware. Now, Windows is being picked apart by slimmer, more agile operating systems. Surely that's not cause for concern? Did you not just read the news where users are concerned with the amount of space Windows takes up? Buy a 32 GB Windows tablet, and tell me, how much space do you have left?

As I said earlier, Microsoft is hoping this legacy support will be their saving grace. So, they don't agree with you here.

Microsoft has deliberately chosen to offer "full" Windows in the tablet space and not a slimmer and leaner mobile focused OS, like they do with Windows Phone. They are hoping that users want this legacy support and that developers do as well. Is MS right? Who knows. But I do know one thing. If users are allowed to pick an OS in mobile they largely don't choose Windows, irrespective of variant. So without the legacy card MS comes to the table with nothing in the new race and they are already a few laps behind.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

As I said earlier, Microsoft is hoping this legacy support will be their saving grace. So, they don't agree with you here.

Microsoft has deliberately chosen to offer "full" Windows in the tablet space and not a slimmer and leaner mobile focused OS, like they do with Windows Phone. They are hoping that users want this legacy support and that developers do as well. Is MS right? Who knows. But I do know one thing. If users are allowed to pick an OS in mobile they largely don't choose Windows, irrespective of variant. So without the legacy card MS comes to the table with nothing in the new race and they are already a few laps behind.

If they're dragging the legacy support with them on purpose, then why is the desktop on RT a dead duck? I can't so **** on the desktop besides run Office, and that's Microsoft's own doing!

Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

Posted
  • MVC
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If they're dragging the legacy support with them on purpose, then why is the desktop on RT a dead duck? I can't so **** on the desktop besides run Office, and that's Microsoft's own doing!

The better question is if the Desktop is a dead duck that is being primed for slaughter then why is it on RT at all to any serious extent? Office could have been sandboxed into a very limited desktop experience.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

The better question is if the Desktop is a dead duck that is being primed for slaughter then why is it on RT at all to any serious extent? Office could have been sandboxed into a very limited desktop experience.

Which is why I believe you're going to see the Metro-ification of more elements in Windows 9. Hell maybe even in "Blue".

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Anthropic accused Alibaba of creating about 25,000 fraudulent accounts to copy Claude's capabilities at scale. It told US lawmakers that operators linked to Alibaba generated 28.8 million exchanges with Claude between April 22 and June 5, 2026. Reserve my memory: The semiconductor company Micron revealed that AI companies are spending billions to lock up its memory years in advance. Its customers have locked in $22 billion worth of memory supply commitments. Another AI battle: A publisher group that collectively owns 400 newspapers sued OpenAI and Microsoft for scraping their content to build AI chatbots such as ChatGPT and Copilot without compensation. Anthropic AI ban: The US government partially reversed the Anthropic AI ban, allowing it to restore Claude Mythos 5. However, it can only be deployed for a limited set of US organizations that operate and defend critical infrastructure. This week in Microsoft News In some of the hottest stories of the week: Windows 10 quietly gained a year of support and updates, Windows 11 KB5095093 released with a long list of features, and Windows 11 26H2 is finally getting the ability to disable web search results in Windows 11 Search. You can check out Taras's freshly baked Microsoft Weekly roundup to catch up on all the interesting stories this week. This week in science news Image by Pascal Küffer via Pexels Catch up on some of the latest science and out-of-this-world updates that arrived throughout the week: 13 billion-year-old secret: Scientists found that the universe's first molecule (helium hyride) reacted with hydrogen much faster in cold temperatures than previously believed. It's a new breakthrough that changes our understanding of early star formation. Cosmic Living Fossil: Astronomers found CR3, a surprisingly pristine 11.5-billion-year-old galaxy dubbed a "living fossil." It suggests the universe's first generation of stars formed much later than previously assumed. Einstein's 100-year-old theory: Thanks to relativity, researchers calculated that clocks on Mars tick 477 microseconds faster per day than on Earth. This minute gravitational difference is crucial for synchronizing future interplanetary space missions. Don't panic: NASA's James Webb Telescope finally eliminated the threat of asteroid 2024 YR4 striking the moon in 2032. The rocky giant will give us a safe fly-by without causing any harm. This week in gaming? The latest issue of Pulasthi's Weekend PC Game Deals curates several exciting games on sale this week. RollerCoaster Tycoon 3 Complete Edition and Voidwrought have replaced the old titles in this week's Epic Games Store giveaway. For Xbox Free Play Days, the new titles include House Flipper 2, Blades of Fire, and Assetto Corsa Competizione. Steam Summer Sale 2026 kicked off with discounts for everything from the newest games and retro gems to all sorts of DLC packs, until July 9. Meanwhile, NVIDIA GeForce NOW added support for several new titles, including Dark Scrolls, SAND: Raiders of Sophie, and EMPULSE. That said, here are some more stories from the gaming world: Age of Empires Mobile comes to PC, here's how to carry over progress from your phone Xbox Insiders get Xbox 360 achievements and Gamertag character upgrades Grand Theft Auto VI pricing revealed alongside Ultimate Edition and pre-loading details Sony announces Bungie layoffs that will affect "significant number of employees" From the review corner This week, Steven published a review of the TerraMaster F4-425 Pro AI-powered NAS, featuring an all-metal exterior on the lines of the four-bay F4-425 series. Powered by the octa-core Intel Core N350, the TerraMaster F4-425 Pro is highly energy-efficient, operates quietly, and offers three M.2 slots. On the flip side, OpenClaw support requires removing security hardening (SPC), AI requires a paid subscription, the software feels like a beta, and the rubber feet constantly come unstuck. ZimaBoard 2 1664 Starter Kit Another NAS setup reviewed this week is the ZimaBoard 2 by IceWhale Technology. It comes in a small footprint with great modern hardware through a combo of Intel N150 and DDR5 memory support. On the downside, the memory is not upgradeable, ZimaOS is a bit barebones, factory reset requires USB flashing, and there is no automatic backup via the mobile app. Synology's BeeCamera software Christopher wrote his review of the software that powers BeeCamera Plus and said "the BeeCamera app is a great way to add private home monitoring to your network but there are some limitations." It's free with an easy setup process, fast response time, and good AI and detection features. However, there is no desktop version; it only works with Synology cameras, some configurations are difficult to set up on a phone, and it lacks the features of the surveillance station. More price drops! We got you covered with some hot tech deals all week. For some reason, if you missed out on a great discount, here is a summary of some recent deals that are still alive: Onkyo Dolby Atmos AV receivers are really solid deals 4TB TEAMGROUP MP44Q, 2TB T-Force G50, and 2TB WD My Passport SSDs drop to great prices Edifier S3000MKII hi-fi audiophile grade bookshelf speaker is at its lowest price now The best controller for XBOX and PC is down to the lowest price Limited time Prime Day deal cuts price of this Hisense 65" 4K smart TV in half To view all of our recent deals, click here. So, these were some of the biggest tech news and other updates from this week. There will be more issues of our 7 Days series in the coming weeks and months, so stay tuned. You can also support Neowin by registering for a free member account or subscribing to extra member benefits, along with an ad-free tier option. Have a great weekend!
    • Politically funny images of the World

      By snowy owl · Posted

    • Zen Browser 1.21.4b

      By Copernic · Posted

      Zen Browser 1.21.4b by Razvan Serea Zen Browser is a privacy-focused, open-source web browser built on Mozilla Firefox, offering users a secure and customizable browsing experience. It emphasizes privacy by blocking trackers, ads, and ensuring your data isn't collected. With Zen Mods, users can enhance their browser experience with various customization options, including features like split views and vertical tabs. The browser is designed for efficiency, providing fast browsing speeds and a lightweight interface. Zen Browser prioritizes user control over the browsing experience, offering a minimal yet powerful alternative to traditional web browsers while keeping your online activity private. Zen Browser’s DRM limitation Zen Browser currently lacks support for DRM-protected content, meaning streaming services like Netflix and HBO Max are inaccessible. This is due to the absence of a Widevine license, which requires significant costs and is financially unfeasible for the developer. Additionally, applying for this license would require Zen to be part of a larger company, similar to Mozilla or Brave. Therefore, DRM-protected media won't be supported in Zen Browser for the foreseeable future. Zen Browser offers features that improve user experience, privacy, and customization: Privacy-Focused: Blocks trackers and minimizes data collection. Automatic Updates: Keeps the browser updated with security patches. Zen Mods: Customizable themes and layouts. Workspaces: Organize tabs into different workspaces. Compact Mode: Maximizes screen space by minimizing UI elements. Zen Glance: Quick website previews. Split Views: View multiple tabs in the same window. Sidebar: Access bookmarks and tools quickly. Vertical Tabs: Manage tabs vertically. Container Tabs: Separate browsing sessions. Fast Profile Switcher: Switch between profiles easily. Tab Folders: Organize tabs into folders. Customizable UI: Personalize browser interface. Security Features: Inherits Firefox’s robust security. Fast Performance: Lightweight and optimized for speed. Zen Mods Customization: Deep customization with mods. Quick Access: Easy access to favorite websites. Open Source: Built on Mozilla Firefox with community collaboration. Community-Driven: Active development and feedback from users. GitHub Repository: Contribute and review the source code. Zen Browser 1.21.4b changelog: New Features Updated to Firefox 152.0.2 and 152.0.3 Added 'Edit pinned tab' context menu item to manually set a pinned tab's URL Added 'Add Route for Domain' context menu item to quickly add a tab's domain to the Space Routing settings Fixes Prevent sidebar from flickering when moving a tab (#14131) Full-screening while on a glance tab will now expand the glance tab to a normal tab (#11766) Fixed space routing tabs opening in background when it should be in foreground (#14183) Other minor bug fixes and improvements. Download: Zen Browser | 90.2 MB (Open Source) Download: Zen Browser ARM64 | Other Operating Systems View: Zen Browser Home Page | Screenshots 1 | 2 | Reddit Get alerted to all of our Software updates on Twitter at @NeowinSoftware

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