Windows 8 Sales are actually Amazing - 40 million sold

[I am Not PCyr]

DotMatrix

I seen your reply and i tried to really understand where your coming from.

And i see what you mean.. what you said does make a lot of sense.

But i want to give you this reply.

If we both agree change is needed and eventually gonna happen etc etc..

Then the real question and debate here is how and what..

most of us that have issues with Windows 8 are saying exactly that

and once again your responding that we're wrong and change is needed

fine but what does that have to do with anything i've ever said on neowin about it ?

So really when you keep saying that your dodging the question basiclly.

And even further than that i don't think you answered my question (i'm not saying on purpose)

I honestly am interested in knowing where your coming from and seeing your point of view

not so i can try and use it against you or anything I'm just curious why you seem so heavily

invested in battling almost everyone that says anything in slightest negative about windows 8.

And i'm not trrying to single you out because many people have made this what seems a personal battle for them.

I doubt we're ever gonna get anywhere but i honestly wanna see where many of you are coming from.

so if you wanna share your thoughts and motives etc then please enlighten us all :)

and please don't ignore the first part of my reply / response to your earlier comment ;)

(the part where i pointed out change and how its implemented are 2 different things)

[+LogicalApex MVC]

Which is why I believe you're going to see the Metro-ification of more elements in Windows 9. Hell maybe even in "Blue".

More than likely what we will see in Windows 9 is the return to options. They will expand Metro in some way, but there will be options to disable portions or all of it.

Realistically, Windows 8 was a safe bet by Microsoft. Businesses are largely just getting to Windows 7 so they were already aware that many will skip Windows 8. It happens with every mid-term Windows release and Microsoft knew this. They jumped out there to see how far they could push this and what the backlash would be (or not be). The one thing I can see clearly is that the backlash for them has been pretty stern and brutal.

The business world would be ready to move to Windows 9 sometime after it is released as long as they feel it is a valuable choice for them. I'd be amazed if Microsoft didn't add options to scale back Metro in very deep ways by then. I also wouldn't be surprised if they returned the Start Menu or some variation as well, but at the least many Metro options will magically become optional.

MS has to do something in the mobile space, but they can't lose the Desktop either. If their "unification" strategy is going to pay off at all they need existing Desktop users to buy in. Like it or not the main customer for Windows desktop is the business community not the consumer. If Microsoft slams the door on them hardcore they'll lose the war. Windows 9 will most likely adjust its UI more to fit whatever device you're using, PC or Tablet.

So Windows 9 will look different than Windows 8, and Windows 7. It is too early to know what it will be, but I'm confident that if it is what you suggest, severe pushing of more Touch and less of everything else, then we're witnessing the end of Microsoft's reign over computing (not death, but they won't be the monopoly force they were for the bulk of our lives).

[MorganX]

More than likely what we will see in Windows 9 is the return to options. They will expand Metro in some way, but there will be options to disable portions or all of it.

Realistically, Windows 8 was a safe bet by Microsoft. Businesses are largely just getting to Windows 7 so they were already aware that many will skip Windows 8. It happens with every mid-term Windows release and Microsoft knew this. They jumped out there to see how far they could push this and what the backlash would be (or not be). The one thing I can see clearly is that the backlash for them has been pretty stern and brutal.

The business world would be ready to move to Windows 9 sometime after it is released as long as they feel it is a valuable choice for them. I'd be amazed if Microsoft didn't add options to scale back Metro in very deep ways by then. I also wouldn't be surprised if they returned the Start Menu or some variation as well, but at the least many Metro options will magically become optional.

MS has to do something in the mobile space, but they can't lose the Desktop either. If their "unification" strategy is going to pay off at all they need existing Desktop users to buy in. Like it or not the main customer for Windows desktop is the business community not the consumer. If Microsoft slams the door on them hardcore they'll lose the war. Windows 9 will most likely adjust its UI more to fit whatever device you're using, PC or Tablet.

So Windows 9 will look different than Windows 8, and Windows 7. It is too early to know what it will be, but I'm confident that if it is what you suggest, severe pushing of more Touch and less of everything else, then we're witnessing the end of Microsoft's reign over computing (not death, but they won't be the monopoly force they were for the bulk of our lives).

Good analysis. I think what Windows 9 looks like depends on what type of consumer Christmas and following acceptance Windows 8 receives over the next 90 days and how well touch computing supplants desktop computing in the enterprise (not much over the next 3 years IMO). Kiosks have been around a long time and they are consumption devices. The opposite of what most enterprise desktops do. Let's not overlook the fact that thus far Surface's largest selling point is it's click keyboard :)

The threat to their unification initiative is the lack of unification of their devices, which can be fixed via iTunes, I mean software.

[Dashel]

Lots of good points LogicalApex. One thing I would like to highlight though, it seems many here are under the false impression that a 'power user' is one that works in a specific way. While that may be true to certain extents, the article Apex linked tells the real story. The one consistent is that Power Users primarily are those that tweak their environment to their personal preferences and are generally opposed to being forced to do things 'one way'.

"It seems programmers and designers (and most Professional IT folk - my edit) like to customize their environment. Who would?ve guessed? Could that be why they chose their profession?"

[I am Not PCyr]

ya well said comments for sure especialy Dashel that really touches on the issue that has stretchs the last 12 pages or so lol

i couldn't agree more with that point VERY well put !

[scaramonga]

More than likely what we will see in Windows 9 is the return to options. They will expand Metro in some way, but there will be options to disable portions or all of it.

This.

I'll bet my life on it as well. Contrary to belief, Microsoft DO learn from their mistakes, they may not admit them, but there will be some 'back-peddling' while moving forward in Windows 9.

[HawkMan]

Options maybe, in the same way that WP8 opened up from WP7. But there won't be a return of the start menu or other deprecated options.

There will be more modern ui, and there will be more options FOR the modern ui.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

Options maybe, in the same way that WP8 opened up from WP7. But there won't be a return of the start menu or other deprecated options.

There will be more modern ui, and there will be more options FOR the modern ui.

Good call mentioning Windows Phone 8 as it supports my point fairly well actually... Look at some of the big ticket features on Windows Phone 8 compared to Windows Phone 7.

1. Native Code Support.

2. SD Card Support

3. Side Loading Support

All of these MS said weren't important when they launched Windows Phone 7. They argued Native Code was a bad idea because developers were given direct access to hardware and it would harm battery life. They argued that SD cards weren't a good idea as they were slow and no one used them. Additionally, they argued side loading wasn't used by anyone and caused piracy issues.

Microsoft made constant arguments about why these things weren't important in mobile and why they weren't needed in Windows Phone. Except, you fast forward to today and you're seeing them in Windows Phone.

The only thing you'll get from the way Microsoft reacts is they do it like every other major company. They'll keep telling you that the product they are selling you today is awesome and there isn't anything wrong with it. When you complain that is isn't right in x way then they'll tell you why x is wrong. All the while they know they'll never convince you that x is wrong and they are working frantically to get x added into the next version. They can't publicly say "hey we agree that x should have been there" without risking killing sales. So they wont do that.

Windows Phone 8 is just a solid example that they do listen to vocal complaints from the community and no matter how many times they tell you they won't do something, if enough people want it, they will.

[BajiRav]

More than likely what we will see in Windows 9 is the return to options. They will expand Metro in some way, but there will be options to disable portions or all of it.

Realistically, Windows 8 was a safe bet by Microsoft. Businesses are largely just getting to Windows 7 so they were already aware that many will skip Windows 8. It happens with every mid-term Windows release and Microsoft knew this. They jumped out there to see how far they could push this and what the backlash would be (or not be). The one thing I can see clearly is that the backlash for them has been pretty stern and brutal.

You can bet that they will expand metro but the options you want (disable start screen and/or metro etc.) are not coming back unless Windows 8 is a spectacular flop which is unlikely given the apparent good start.

About enterprise: IT at my workplace is planning for a Windows 8 pilot with intention to actually use it. I was surprised to find about that actually because they haven't yet completely finished on 7 and there are many XPs still around (we skipped Vista).

Let's not generalize enterprise, shall we?

Good call mentioning Windows Phone 8 as it supports my point fairly well actually... Look at some of the big ticket features on Windows Phone 8 compared to Windows Phone 7.

1. Native Code Support.

2. SD Card Support

3. Side Loading Support

Windows Phone 7.x has SD card support. I know because I use a 32GB card in mine. One of the first HTCs actually uses an SD card for internal storage (not exposed to user).

There is no special side loading support in WP8 compared to WP7. I think you are confusing install from sd card to side loading?

Windows Phone 7.x also had native code support just that it was restricted to select few. They did listen to vocal complaints but they still haven't addressed most vocal complaints about WP8 (lack of carrier free updates being one).

[HawkMan]

Good call mentioning Windows Phone 8 as it supports my point fairly well actually... Look at some of the big ticket features on Windows Phone 8 compared to Windows Phone 7.

1. Native Code Support.

2. SD Card Support

3. Side Loading Support

All of these MS said weren't important when they launched Windows Phone 7. They argued Native Code was a bad idea because developers were given direct access to hardware and it would harm battery life. They argued that SD cards weren't a good idea as they were slow and no one used them. Additionally, they argued side loading wasn't used by anyone and caused piracy issues.

Microsoft made constant arguments about why these things weren't important in mobile and why they weren't needed in Windows Phone. Except, you fast forward to today and you're seeing them in Windows Phone.

The only thing you'll get from the way Microsoft reacts is they do it like every other major company. They'll keep telling you that the product they are selling you today is awesome and there isn't anything wrong with it. When you complain that is isn't right in x way then they'll tell you why x is wrong. All the while they know they'll never convince you that x is wrong and they are working frantically to get x added into the next version. They can't publicly say "hey we agree that x should have been there" without risking killing sales. So they wont do that.

Windows Phone 8 is just a solid example that they do listen to vocal complaints from the community and no matter how many times they tell you they won't do something, if enough people want it, they will.

They never said SD cards where slow, in fact most of the phones used SD cards for all intents an purposes. it was more about the user experience and the fact that the majority of the users don't understand the difference why some of their music is on /sdcard and some on /localstorage. it doesn't make sense, and Android is doing the same thing in the next version by virtual storage and such. it was also about the "secure" part of SD.

As for native code, that also wasn't quite the argument they used, and native code apps are being monitored through the app store anyway to keep battery eaters and such away, it's not like they have full access to the whole phone and all api's.

I think you'll also notice that, the start menu from Windows Mobile, has not made a re-appearance in Windows Phone 8 :p

As I said, they'll add more Modern, and they'll add more flexibility and options to modern, like they did with WP8. but they won't bring back the start menu.

[MorganX]

They never said SD cards where slow

They just said they weren't supported. And with good reason. Every Focus we put them in eventually corrupted and had to be reformatted. I think MS shunned SD cards because WP7 simply didn't do them well (the whole unified memory thing). MS lies of course like all business' when needed. All fixed in WP8 so they're good now.

[MorganX]

Lots of good points LogicalApex. One thing I would like to highlight though, it seems many here are under the false impression that a 'power user' is one that works in a specific way. While that may be true to certain extents, the article Apex linked tells the real story. The one consistent is that Power Users primarily are those that tweak their environment to their personal preferences and are generally opposed to being forced to do things 'one way'.

"It seems programmers and designers (and most Professional IT folk - my edit) like to customize their environment. Who would?ve guessed? Could that be why they chose their profession?"

Interesting Dashel. I actually think a lot of the professional backlash is because most "chose" the Windows platform for various reasons. With the nature of the changes made, loss of productivity for many (yes, it's a fact), and just pure annoyance of having to work around the hybrids shortcomings, user are frustrated because they feel they were not given options and are forced to accept something they view as inferior.

The notion that nerds, gadget freaks, IT pros, don't want to change, is somewhat ridiculous.

But what I think is causing the most frustration, is that many are just now realizing, while in the past they "chose" Windows, now it is apparent, they actually have no choice. There is no viable alternative to Windows for these people. And they are realizing how little choice they actually have given the desktop monopoly/dominance Microsoft has.

Don't get me wrong, it's not necessarily Microsoft's fault. Google is the devil, Linux is alphabet soup, and Apple, just no. For the first time I think people who have always been pro-Windows are realizing the negatives of lack of meaningful competition.

[Dot Matrix]

DotMatrix

I seen your reply and i tried to really understand where your coming from.

And i see what you mean.. what you said does make a lot of sense.

But i want to give you this reply.

If we both agree change is needed and eventually gonna happen etc etc..

Then the real question and debate here is how and what..

most of us that have issues with Windows 8 are saying exactly that

and once again your responding that we're wrong and change is needed

fine but what does that have to do with anything i've ever said on neowin about it ?

So really when you keep saying that your dodging the question basiclly.

And even further than that i don't think you answered my question (i'm not saying on purpose)

I honestly am interested in knowing where your coming from and seeing your point of view

not so i can try and use it against you or anything I'm just curious why you seem so heavily

invested in battling almost everyone that says anything in slightest negative about windows 8.

And i'm not trrying to single you out because many people have made this what seems a personal battle for them.

I doubt we're ever gonna get anywhere but i honestly wanna see where many of you are coming from.

so if you wanna share your thoughts and motives etc then please enlighten us all :)

I'm not trying to dodge any questions. I'm just simply trying to say, computing is on the verge of becoming something more than static desktops. It's ready to go to the next level, but many here aren't. There are many exciting up and coming technologies that require fresh thinking, but many don't want to leave the comfort zone of static icons, and static start menus. There's an entire world of dynamics waiting to be explored, but we're never going to get there by clinging on to old computing styles. Tablets are a great step towards that, but that doesn't mean the desktop can't be included. Generally speaking the desktop UI is a fairly boring environment, and it simply doesn't have to be that. I'd rather a world where people had fun while sitting at their machines. Not the "same old, same old" thing we have going on now.

Windows 8 is a great step in that direction. I sit down at my machine and my START screen instantly lights up and comes to life. It's full of the things that matter to me - my calendar, the area's weather, news, etc. The START screen is never the same twice. I know this sounds cheesy - but it's full of energy. I don't feel as bored as I once did sitting in front of my machine, because there's always something new to look at. Metro just has a "fresh" feel to it. It's like having a brand new car, after years of having the old one fixed and patched up.

Does that help to explain?

More than likely what we will see in Windows 9 is the return to options. They will expand Metro in some way, but there will be options to disable portions or all of it.

Realistically, Windows 8 was a safe bet by Microsoft. Businesses are largely just getting to Windows 7 so they were already aware that many will skip Windows 8. It happens with every mid-term Windows release and Microsoft knew this. They jumped out there to see how far they could push this and what the backlash would be (or not be). The one thing I can see clearly is that the backlash for them has been pretty stern and brutal.

The business world would be ready to move to Windows 9 sometime after it is released as long as they feel it is a valuable choice for them. I'd be amazed if Microsoft didn't add options to scale back Metro in very deep ways by then. I also wouldn't be surprised if they returned the Start Menu or some variation as well, but at the least many Metro options will magically become optional.

MS has to do something in the mobile space, but they can't lose the Desktop either. If their "unification" strategy is going to pay off at all they need existing Desktop users to buy in. Like it or not the main customer for Windows desktop is the business community not the consumer. If Microsoft slams the door on them hardcore they'll lose the war. Windows 9 will most likely adjust its UI more to fit whatever device you're using, PC or Tablet.

So Windows 9 will look different than Windows 8, and Windows 7. It is too early to know what it will be, but I'm confident that if it is what you suggest, severe pushing of more Touch and less of everything else, then we're witnessing the end of Microsoft's reign over computing (not death, but they won't be the monopoly force they were for the bulk of our lives).

Windows 8 was far from a safe bet. And the only backlash is coming from those so-called power users who want a Linux OS, and not a consumer OS. Windows was never Linux, nor shall it ever be. It's tough, but try for a moment to think like a consumer. You think they want to launch programs using the Run command? Or lunch apps from Start? Do you really think they want to stare at line after line of code? Hell no. Not even I do. Microsoft isn't bringing back the Start Menu, or any other depreciated option. That's just the way computing works. You move forward - not back. If anything the only options you'll get, would be for the Metro side of the OS, and nothing else, like HawkMan pointed out. Microsoft isn't going to invest time and money to bring something back that they invested in killing, just to make a few IT folks happy. Unification begins with Metro and the RT api, you know for a fact that RT and Windows Phone cannot interact with Win32, so to unify the two, you need common ground, and Metro is just that.

Options maybe, in the same way that WP8 opened up from WP7. But there won't be a return of the start menu or other deprecated options.

There will be more modern ui, and there will be more options FOR the modern ui.

QFT.

[zhangm Supervisor]

The Start Menu:

Only on Windows does it make sense to click Start to shut down.

They seriously think that this mess of cascading menus is better than the Program Manager?

UAC:

I always turn it off - it is completely useless for Power Users.

They'll get rid of it in the next version - no one likes it.

Search:

Search is only useful for people too stupid to organize their Start Menu.

Turn off the search indexer - it will free up system resources.

It's not that Microsoft hasn't thrown wrenches into established workflows in the past. Every time they do it, it's the end of the world.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

Windows 8 was far from a safe bet. And the only backlash is coming from those so-called power users who want a Linux OS, and not a consumer OS. Windows was never Linux, nor shall it ever be. It's tough, but try for a moment to think like a consumer. You think they want to launch programs using the Run command? Or lunch apps from Start? Do you really think they want to stare at line after line of code? Hell no. Not even I do. Microsoft isn't bringing back the Start Menu, or any other depreciated option. That's just the way computing works. You move forward - not back. If anything the only options you'll get, would be for the Metro side of the OS, and nothing else, like HawkMan pointed out. Microsoft isn't going to invest time and money to bring something back that they invested in killing, just to make a few IT folks happy. Unification begins with Metro and the RT api, you know for a fact that RT and Windows Phone cannot interact with Win32, so to unify the two, you need common ground, and Metro is just that.

The key problem with your view of the future is expressed pretty clearly there with your "think like a consumer" perspective. Microsoft isn't at liberty to forget the professional user base as you seem to so casually allure to. Microsoft needs someone to pay the bills and the reality is they can't rely on the consumer market for that at this moment, if ever. Windows 8 was a safe bet because it was their attempt to reach out to the consumer market without severely killing their business customers long term.

If you honestly believe MS should, and are, ignoring business users for consumers without any qualms about their demands at all then you might as well move onto something else. Consumers by and large don't like Microsoft in the consumer space. Every single consumer product MS has made, except the XBOX, as been a massive failure. They wouldn't be silly enough to gamble that hard on the future of Windows, one of their major cash cows.

As I said earlier, like it or not their customer is business. They may want the consumer, but they will be hoping to win them over long-term, not with a single release as you're eluding to here.

The Start Menu:

Only on Windows does it make sense to click Start to shut down.

They seriously think that this mess of cascading menus is better than the Program Manager?

UAC:

I always turn it off - it is completely useless for Power Users.

They'll get rid of it in the next version - no one likes it.

Search:

Search is only useful for people too stupid to organize their Start Menu.

Turn off the search indexer - it will free up system resources.

It's not that Microsoft hasn't thrown wrenches into established workflows in the past. Every time they do it, it's the end of the world.

Keep in mind Microsoft is listening to the customers and changing the features to give people less reason to hate them. For instance, in Vista everyone got pinched by UAC. If you did "administrative" tasks like rename a folder or copy files you'd be getting 4 or 5 UAC prompts during the process. In Windows 7 MS toned it down enough that you will see them only when installing and removing programs, for the most part. The complaints of it died down because UAC was radically improved between Vista and 7.

[HawkMan]

They just said they weren't supported. And with good reason. Every Focus we put them in eventually corrupted and had to be reformatted. I think MS shunned SD cards because WP7 simply didn't do them well (the whole unified memory thing). MS lies of course like all business' when needed. All fixed in WP8 so they're good now.

eh, no.

[MorganX]

eh, no.

Perhaps I should be more specific, removable SD cards (as users are accustomed to using an SD card; as fixed and now usable in WP8) and non-certified SD cards as they become a part of unified memory under WP7 and just don't work well. Even certified cards would corrupt and require reformatting of all memory in our experience, hence, we stopped allowing their use.

From Microsoft:

• The SD card slot in your phone is intended to be used only by the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) that built your phone and your Mobile Operator (MO). These partners can add an SD card to this slot to expand the amount of storage on your phone.
  
• To help ensure a great user experience, Microsoft has performed exhaustive testing to determine which SD cards perform well with Windows Phone 7 devices. Microsoft has worked closely with OEMs and MOs to ensure that they only add these cards to Windows Phone 7 devices.
  
• You should not remove the SD card in your phone or add a new one because your Windows Phone 7 device might not work properly. Existing data on the phone will be lost, and the SD card in your phone can't be used in other Windows Phones, PCs, or other devices.
  

[Kyang]

Keep in mind Microsoft is listening to the customers and changing the features to give people less reason to hate them. For instance, in Vista everyone got pinched by UAC. If you did "administrative" tasks like rename a folder or copy files you'd be getting 4 or 5 UAC prompts during the process. In Windows 7 MS toned it down enough that you will see them only when installing and removing programs, for the most part. The complaints of it died down because UAC was radically improved between Vista and 7.

I never had UAC prompts from just renaming a folder.

I think you mean you had UAC prompts for renaming a folder within obviously "Dangerous" parts of the OS like system32 or Program files, right?

[Growled Member]

I never had UAC prompts from just renaming a folder.

I think you mean you had UAC prompts for renaming a folder within obviously "Dangerous" parts of the OS like system32 or Program files, right?

Probably. However, you probably could give the rights to a folder in a user space to Admin and get one. That's not likely to happen under normal circumstances, though.

[I am Not PCyr]

BajiRav

you said

"unless Windows 8 is a spectacular flop which is unlikely given the apparent good start."

I disagree for example wikipedia states the result is mixed NOT good.

Maybe you should go and edit the wikipedia page lol

and DotMatrix

Your reply seems fair but i have 2 thoughts.

You never addressed your motivations.. why is this such a battle for you ?

Why are people not allowed to dislike things on Windows 8 ?

Also for the most part i heard you stating your opinions and i won't dare say they are wrong

but lets keep things in context.. I have an opinion too.. so what lol

What makes your right and mine wrong ? What you typed out didn't make a compelling argument for me personally

For others ya maybe ?? And Windows is not designed for a subset of the public tradionaly

and having M$ slash and burn all their products and services and merge them into one so called "unified"

platform means more than ever they should be trying to please a wider audience.

And you gave me your opinionon M$'s direction and here iis mine in response.

M$ shouldn't be killing good practices because some people are bored with windows.

That sounds an awful lot like change for changes sake to me.

Don't forget you can always go and install software after installing windows..

We don't need to get carried away with bundling things into the OS..

Not when they are doing stuff liek removing WMC lol

You should read the quote posted at wikipedia from this guy..

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes from ZDNet wrote: "The biggest problem with Windows 8 is that it wasn't born out of a need or demand. Its design failures, particularly with ?Metro UI? will likely be its downfall."^[115]

edit:

I don't see the problem here if M$ can please everyone. What is wrong with adding some options to an OS

that will please both sides ? of Say the Metro interface for example. If both sides get what they want then why is only one side complaining ?

[HawkMan]

Perhaps I should be more specific, removable SD cards (as users are accustomed to using an SD card; as fixed and now usable in WP8) and non-certified SD cards as they become a part of unified memory under WP7 and just don't work well. Even certified cards would corrupt and require reformatting of all memory in our experience, hence, we stopped allowing their use.

From Microsoft:

• The SD card slot in your phone is intended to be used only by the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) that built your phone and your Mobile Operator (MO). These partners can add an SD card to this slot to expand the amount of storage on your phone.
  
• To help ensure a great user experience, Microsoft has performed exhaustive testing to determine which SD cards perform well with Windows Phone 7 devices. Microsoft has worked closely with OEMs and MOs to ensure that they only add these cards to Windows Phone 7 devices.
  
• You should not remove the SD card in your phone or add a new one because your Windows Phone 7 device might not work properly. Existing data on the phone will be lost, and the SD card in your phone can't be used in other Windows Phones, PCs, or other devices.
  

I think you're confusing software with hardware compatibility.

M$

M$'s

M$

M$

And that's where everything you said became meaningless ramble that there's no point reading or responding to. Actually that happened at the first one, the rest your cemented it.

though I was starting to feel it already when you mentioned Wikipedia.

[Original Poster]

Chief Marketing and Financial Officer for Windows opened up the Credit Suisse Annual Tech conference with the news that Windows 8 has sold 40 million licenses so far.

Can we stop the foolish debate of it being a flop now? thanks! would appreciate getting back to talking about fun stuff!

its cause people dont have a choice when buying a new laptop... I have "down graded" to windows 7 and linux for a few people lately

[HawkMan]

To bad you didn't tell those people" just try it", and not only would they have managed just fine, the would probably have managed better than your downgrade.

[Windows Nashville]

Can we stop the foolish debate of it being a flop now?

Not for at least 27 pages.

[Dot Matrix]

BajiRav

you said

I disagree for example wikipedia states the result is mixed NOT good.

Maybe you should go and edit the wikipedia page lol

and DotMatrix

Your reply seems fair but i have 2 thoughts.

You never addressed your motivations.. why is this such a battle for you ?

Why are people not allowed to dislike things on Windows 8 ?

Also for the most part i heard you stating your opinions and i won't dare say they are wrong

but lets keep things in context.. I have an opinion too.. so what lol

What makes your right and mine wrong ? What you typed out didn't make a compelling argument for me personally

For others ya maybe ?? And Windows is not designed for a subset of the public tradionaly

and having M$ slash and burn all their products and services and merge them into one so called "unified"

platform means more than ever they should be trying to please a wider audience.

And you gave me your opinionon M$'s direction and here iis mine in response.

M$ shouldn't be killing good practices because some people are bored with windows.

That sounds an awful lot like change for changes sake to me.

Don't forget you can always go and install software after installing windows..

We don't need to get carried away with bundling things into the OS..

Not when they are doing stuff liek removing WMC lol

You should read the quote posted at wikipedia from this guy..

[/sup]

edit:

I don't see the problem here if M$ can please everyone. What is wrong with adding some options to an OS

that will please both sides ? of Say the Metro interface for example. If both sides get what they want then why is only one side complaining ?

I want to reply to this, but the copious use of "M$" tells me you're trolling.