Windows 8 Sales are actually Amazing - 40 million sold

By spudtrooper
in Microsoft (Windows)

 Share

Recommended Posts

Contributor

I am Not PCyr

Posted
Posted

DotMatrix

I seen your reply and i tried to really understand where your coming from.

And i see what you mean.. what you said does make a lot of sense.

But i want to give you this reply.

If we both agree change is needed and eventually gonna happen etc etc..

Then the real question and debate here is how and what..

most of us that have issues with Windows 8 are saying exactly that

and once again your responding that we're wrong and change is needed

fine but what does that have to do with anything i've ever said on neowin about it ?

So really when you keep saying that your dodging the question basiclly.

And even further than that i don't think you answered my question (i'm not saying on purpose)

I honestly am interested in knowing where your coming from and seeing your point of view

not so i can try and use it against you or anything I'm just curious why you seem so heavily

invested in battling almost everyone that says anything in slightest negative about windows 8.

And i'm not trrying to single you out because many people have made this what seems a personal battle for them.

I doubt we're ever gonna get anywhere but i honestly wanna see where many of you are coming from.

so if you wanna share your thoughts and motives etc then please enlighten us all :)

and please don't ignore the first part of my reply / response to your earlier comment ;)

(the part where i pointed out change and how its implemented are 2 different things)

Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

Which is why I believe you're going to see the Metro-ification of more elements in Windows 9. Hell maybe even in "Blue".

More than likely what we will see in Windows 9 is the return to options. They will expand Metro in some way, but there will be options to disable portions or all of it.

Realistically, Windows 8 was a safe bet by Microsoft. Businesses are largely just getting to Windows 7 so they were already aware that many will skip Windows 8. It happens with every mid-term Windows release and Microsoft knew this. They jumped out there to see how far they could push this and what the backlash would be (or not be). The one thing I can see clearly is that the backlash for them has been pretty stern and brutal.

The business world would be ready to move to Windows 9 sometime after it is released as long as they feel it is a valuable choice for them. I'd be amazed if Microsoft didn't add options to scale back Metro in very deep ways by then. I also wouldn't be surprised if they returned the Start Menu or some variation as well, but at the least many Metro options will magically become optional.

MS has to do something in the mobile space, but they can't lose the Desktop either. If their "unification" strategy is going to pay off at all they need existing Desktop users to buy in. Like it or not the main customer for Windows desktop is the business community not the consumer. If Microsoft slams the door on them hardcore they'll lose the war. Windows 9 will most likely adjust its UI more to fit whatever device you're using, PC or Tablet.

So Windows 9 will look different than Windows 8, and Windows 7. It is too early to know what it will be, but I'm confident that if it is what you suggest, severe pushing of more Touch and less of everything else, then we're witnessing the end of Microsoft's reign over computing (not death, but they won't be the monopoly force they were for the bulk of our lives).

  • I am Not PCyr
  • Like 1
Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

More than likely what we will see in Windows 9 is the return to options. They will expand Metro in some way, but there will be options to disable portions or all of it.

Realistically, Windows 8 was a safe bet by Microsoft. Businesses are largely just getting to Windows 7 so they were already aware that many will skip Windows 8. It happens with every mid-term Windows release and Microsoft knew this. They jumped out there to see how far they could push this and what the backlash would be (or not be). The one thing I can see clearly is that the backlash for them has been pretty stern and brutal.

The business world would be ready to move to Windows 9 sometime after it is released as long as they feel it is a valuable choice for them. I'd be amazed if Microsoft didn't add options to scale back Metro in very deep ways by then. I also wouldn't be surprised if they returned the Start Menu or some variation as well, but at the least many Metro options will magically become optional.

MS has to do something in the mobile space, but they can't lose the Desktop either. If their "unification" strategy is going to pay off at all they need existing Desktop users to buy in. Like it or not the main customer for Windows desktop is the business community not the consumer. If Microsoft slams the door on them hardcore they'll lose the war. Windows 9 will most likely adjust its UI more to fit whatever device you're using, PC or Tablet.

So Windows 9 will look different than Windows 8, and Windows 7. It is too early to know what it will be, but I'm confident that if it is what you suggest, severe pushing of more Touch and less of everything else, then we're witnessing the end of Microsoft's reign over computing (not death, but they won't be the monopoly force they were for the bulk of our lives).

Good analysis. I think what Windows 9 looks like depends on what type of consumer Christmas and following acceptance Windows 8 receives over the next 90 days and how well touch computing supplants desktop computing in the enterprise (not much over the next 3 years IMO). Kiosks have been around a long time and they are consumption devices. The opposite of what most enterprise desktops do. Let's not overlook the fact that thus far Surface's largest selling point is it's click keyboard :)

The threat to their unification initiative is the lack of unification of their devices, which can be fixed via iTunes, I mean software.

Grand Master

Dashel

Posted
Posted

Lots of good points LogicalApex. One thing I would like to highlight though, it seems many here are under the false impression that a 'power user' is one that works in a specific way. While that may be true to certain extents, the article Apex linked tells the real story. The one consistent is that Power Users primarily are those that tweak their environment to their personal preferences and are generally opposed to being forced to do things 'one way'.

"It seems programmers and designers (and most Professional IT folk - my edit) like to customize their environment. Who would?ve guessed? Could that be why they chose their profession?"

Veteran

scaramonga

Posted
Posted

More than likely what we will see in Windows 9 is the return to options. They will expand Metro in some way, but there will be options to disable portions or all of it.

This.

I'll bet my life on it as well. Contrary to belief, Microsoft DO learn from their mistakes, they may not admit them, but there will be some 'back-peddling' while moving forward in Windows 9.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

Options maybe, in the same way that WP8 opened up from WP7. But there won't be a return of the start menu or other deprecated options.

There will be more modern ui, and there will be more options FOR the modern ui.

Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

Options maybe, in the same way that WP8 opened up from WP7. But there won't be a return of the start menu or other deprecated options.

There will be more modern ui, and there will be more options FOR the modern ui.

Good call mentioning Windows Phone 8 as it supports my point fairly well actually... Look at some of the big ticket features on Windows Phone 8 compared to Windows Phone 7.

1. Native Code Support.

2. SD Card Support

3. Side Loading Support

All of these MS said weren't important when they launched Windows Phone 7. They argued Native Code was a bad idea because developers were given direct access to hardware and it would harm battery life. They argued that SD cards weren't a good idea as they were slow and no one used them. Additionally, they argued side loading wasn't used by anyone and caused piracy issues.

Microsoft made constant arguments about why these things weren't important in mobile and why they weren't needed in Windows Phone. Except, you fast forward to today and you're seeing them in Windows Phone.

The only thing you'll get from the way Microsoft reacts is they do it like every other major company. They'll keep telling you that the product they are selling you today is awesome and there isn't anything wrong with it. When you complain that is isn't right in x way then they'll tell you why x is wrong. All the while they know they'll never convince you that x is wrong and they are working frantically to get x added into the next version. They can't publicly say "hey we agree that x should have been there" without risking killing sales. So they wont do that.

Windows Phone 8 is just a solid example that they do listen to vocal complaints from the community and no matter how many times they tell you they won't do something, if enough people want it, they will.

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

More than likely what we will see in Windows 9 is the return to options. They will expand Metro in some way, but there will be options to disable portions or all of it.

Realistically, Windows 8 was a safe bet by Microsoft. Businesses are largely just getting to Windows 7 so they were already aware that many will skip Windows 8. It happens with every mid-term Windows release and Microsoft knew this. They jumped out there to see how far they could push this and what the backlash would be (or not be). The one thing I can see clearly is that the backlash for them has been pretty stern and brutal.

You can bet that they will expand metro but the options you want (disable start screen and/or metro etc.) are not coming back unless Windows 8 is a spectacular flop which is unlikely given the apparent good start.

About enterprise: IT at my workplace is planning for a Windows 8 pilot with intention to actually use it. I was surprised to find about that actually because they haven't yet completely finished on 7 and there are many XPs still around (we skipped Vista).

Let's not generalize enterprise, shall we?

Good call mentioning Windows Phone 8 as it supports my point fairly well actually... Look at some of the big ticket features on Windows Phone 8 compared to Windows Phone 7.

1. Native Code Support.

2. SD Card Support

3. Side Loading Support

Windows Phone 7.x has SD card support. I know because I use a 32GB card in mine. One of the first HTCs actually uses an SD card for internal storage (not exposed to user).

There is no special side loading support in WP8 compared to WP7. I think you are confusing install from sd card to side loading?

Windows Phone 7.x also had native code support just that it was restricted to select few. They did listen to vocal complaints but they still haven't addressed most vocal complaints about WP8 (lack of carrier free updates being one).

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

Good call mentioning Windows Phone 8 as it supports my point fairly well actually... Look at some of the big ticket features on Windows Phone 8 compared to Windows Phone 7.

1. Native Code Support.

2. SD Card Support

3. Side Loading Support

All of these MS said weren't important when they launched Windows Phone 7. They argued Native Code was a bad idea because developers were given direct access to hardware and it would harm battery life. They argued that SD cards weren't a good idea as they were slow and no one used them. Additionally, they argued side loading wasn't used by anyone and caused piracy issues.

Microsoft made constant arguments about why these things weren't important in mobile and why they weren't needed in Windows Phone. Except, you fast forward to today and you're seeing them in Windows Phone.

The only thing you'll get from the way Microsoft reacts is they do it like every other major company. They'll keep telling you that the product they are selling you today is awesome and there isn't anything wrong with it. When you complain that is isn't right in x way then they'll tell you why x is wrong. All the while they know they'll never convince you that x is wrong and they are working frantically to get x added into the next version. They can't publicly say "hey we agree that x should have been there" without risking killing sales. So they wont do that.

Windows Phone 8 is just a solid example that they do listen to vocal complaints from the community and no matter how many times they tell you they won't do something, if enough people want it, they will.

They never said SD cards where slow, in fact most of the phones used SD cards for all intents an purposes. it was more about the user experience and the fact that the majority of the users don't understand the difference why some of their music is on /sdcard and some on /localstorage. it doesn't make sense, and Android is doing the same thing in the next version by virtual storage and such. it was also about the "secure" part of SD.

As for native code, that also wasn't quite the argument they used, and native code apps are being monitored through the app store anyway to keep battery eaters and such away, it's not like they have full access to the whole phone and all api's.

I think you'll also notice that, the start menu from Windows Mobile, has not made a re-appearance in Windows Phone 8 :p

As I said, they'll add more Modern, and they'll add more flexibility and options to modern, like they did with WP8. but they won't bring back the start menu.

Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

They never said SD cards where slow

They just said they weren't supported. And with good reason. Every Focus we put them in eventually corrupted and had to be reformatted. I think MS shunned SD cards because WP7 simply didn't do them well (the whole unified memory thing). MS lies of course like all business' when needed. All fixed in WP8 so they're good now.

Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

Lots of good points LogicalApex. One thing I would like to highlight though, it seems many here are under the false impression that a 'power user' is one that works in a specific way. While that may be true to certain extents, the article Apex linked tells the real story. The one consistent is that Power Users primarily are those that tweak their environment to their personal preferences and are generally opposed to being forced to do things 'one way'.

"It seems programmers and designers (and most Professional IT folk - my edit) like to customize their environment. Who would?ve guessed? Could that be why they chose their profession?"

Interesting Dashel. I actually think a lot of the professional backlash is because most "chose" the Windows platform for various reasons. With the nature of the changes made, loss of productivity for many (yes, it's a fact), and just pure annoyance of having to work around the hybrids shortcomings, user are frustrated because they feel they were not given options and are forced to accept something they view as inferior.

The notion that nerds, gadget freaks, IT pros, don't want to change, is somewhat ridiculous.

But what I think is causing the most frustration, is that many are just now realizing, while in the past they "chose" Windows, now it is apparent, they actually have no choice. There is no viable alternative to Windows for these people. And they are realizing how little choice they actually have given the desktop monopoly/dominance Microsoft has.

Don't get me wrong, it's not necessarily Microsoft's fault. Google is the devil, Linux is alphabet soup, and Apple, just no. For the first time I think people who have always been pro-Windows are realizing the negatives of lack of meaningful competition.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

DotMatrix

I seen your reply and i tried to really understand where your coming from.

And i see what you mean.. what you said does make a lot of sense.

But i want to give you this reply.

If we both agree change is needed and eventually gonna happen etc etc..

Then the real question and debate here is how and what..

most of us that have issues with Windows 8 are saying exactly that

and once again your responding that we're wrong and change is needed

fine but what does that have to do with anything i've ever said on neowin about it ?

So really when you keep saying that your dodging the question basiclly.

And even further than that i don't think you answered my question (i'm not saying on purpose)

I honestly am interested in knowing where your coming from and seeing your point of view

not so i can try and use it against you or anything I'm just curious why you seem so heavily

invested in battling almost everyone that says anything in slightest negative about windows 8.

And i'm not trrying to single you out because many people have made this what seems a personal battle for them.

I doubt we're ever gonna get anywhere but i honestly wanna see where many of you are coming from.

so if you wanna share your thoughts and motives etc then please enlighten us all :)

I'm not trying to dodge any questions. I'm just simply trying to say, computing is on the verge of becoming something more than static desktops. It's ready to go to the next level, but many here aren't. There are many exciting up and coming technologies that require fresh thinking, but many don't want to leave the comfort zone of static icons, and static start menus. There's an entire world of dynamics waiting to be explored, but we're never going to get there by clinging on to old computing styles. Tablets are a great step towards that, but that doesn't mean the desktop can't be included. Generally speaking the desktop UI is a fairly boring environment, and it simply doesn't have to be that. I'd rather a world where people had fun while sitting at their machines. Not the "same old, same old" thing we have going on now.

Windows 8 is a great step in that direction. I sit down at my machine and my START screen instantly lights up and comes to life. It's full of the things that matter to me - my calendar, the area's weather, news, etc. The START screen is never the same twice. I know this sounds cheesy - but it's full of energy. I don't feel as bored as I once did sitting in front of my machine, because there's always something new to look at. Metro just has a "fresh" feel to it. It's like having a brand new car, after years of having the old one fixed and patched up.

Does that help to explain?

More than likely what we will see in Windows 9 is the return to options. They will expand Metro in some way, but there will be options to disable portions or all of it.

Realistically, Windows 8 was a safe bet by Microsoft. Businesses are largely just getting to Windows 7 so they were already aware that many will skip Windows 8. It happens with every mid-term Windows release and Microsoft knew this. They jumped out there to see how far they could push this and what the backlash would be (or not be). The one thing I can see clearly is that the backlash for them has been pretty stern and brutal.

The business world would be ready to move to Windows 9 sometime after it is released as long as they feel it is a valuable choice for them. I'd be amazed if Microsoft didn't add options to scale back Metro in very deep ways by then. I also wouldn't be surprised if they returned the Start Menu or some variation as well, but at the least many Metro options will magically become optional.

MS has to do something in the mobile space, but they can't lose the Desktop either. If their "unification" strategy is going to pay off at all they need existing Desktop users to buy in. Like it or not the main customer for Windows desktop is the business community not the consumer. If Microsoft slams the door on them hardcore they'll lose the war. Windows 9 will most likely adjust its UI more to fit whatever device you're using, PC or Tablet.

So Windows 9 will look different than Windows 8, and Windows 7. It is too early to know what it will be, but I'm confident that if it is what you suggest, severe pushing of more Touch and less of everything else, then we're witnessing the end of Microsoft's reign over computing (not death, but they won't be the monopoly force they were for the bulk of our lives).

Windows 8 was far from a safe bet. And the only backlash is coming from those so-called power users who want a Linux OS, and not a consumer OS. Windows was never Linux, nor shall it ever be. It's tough, but try for a moment to think like a consumer. You think they want to launch programs using the Run command? Or lunch apps from Start? Do you really think they want to stare at line after line of code? Hell no. Not even I do. Microsoft isn't bringing back the Start Menu, or any other depreciated option. That's just the way computing works. You move forward - not back. If anything the only options you'll get, would be for the Metro side of the OS, and nothing else, like HawkMan pointed out. Microsoft isn't going to invest time and money to bring something back that they invested in killing, just to make a few IT folks happy. Unification begins with Metro and the RT api, you know for a fact that RT and Windows Phone cannot interact with Win32, so to unify the two, you need common ground, and Metro is just that.

Options maybe, in the same way that WP8 opened up from WP7. But there won't be a return of the start menu or other deprecated options.

There will be more modern ui, and there will be more options FOR the modern ui.

QFT.

Grand Master

zhangm Supervisor

Posted
  • Supervisor
Posted

The Start Menu:

Only on Windows does it make sense to click Start to shut down.

They seriously think that this mess of cascading menus is better than the Program Manager?

UAC:

I always turn it off - it is completely useless for Power Users.

They'll get rid of it in the next version - no one likes it.

Search:

Search is only useful for people too stupid to organize their Start Menu.

Turn off the search indexer - it will free up system resources.

It's not that Microsoft hasn't thrown wrenches into established workflows in the past. Every time they do it, it's the end of the world.

  • BajiRav and Stoffel
  • Like 2
Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

Windows 8 was far from a safe bet. And the only backlash is coming from those so-called power users who want a Linux OS, and not a consumer OS. Windows was never Linux, nor shall it ever be. It's tough, but try for a moment to think like a consumer. You think they want to launch programs using the Run command? Or lunch apps from Start? Do you really think they want to stare at line after line of code? Hell no. Not even I do. Microsoft isn't bringing back the Start Menu, or any other depreciated option. That's just the way computing works. You move forward - not back. If anything the only options you'll get, would be for the Metro side of the OS, and nothing else, like HawkMan pointed out. Microsoft isn't going to invest time and money to bring something back that they invested in killing, just to make a few IT folks happy. Unification begins with Metro and the RT api, you know for a fact that RT and Windows Phone cannot interact with Win32, so to unify the two, you need common ground, and Metro is just that.

The key problem with your view of the future is expressed pretty clearly there with your "think like a consumer" perspective. Microsoft isn't at liberty to forget the professional user base as you seem to so casually allure to. Microsoft needs someone to pay the bills and the reality is they can't rely on the consumer market for that at this moment, if ever. Windows 8 was a safe bet because it was their attempt to reach out to the consumer market without severely killing their business customers long term.

If you honestly believe MS should, and are, ignoring business users for consumers without any qualms about their demands at all then you might as well move onto something else. Consumers by and large don't like Microsoft in the consumer space. Every single consumer product MS has made, except the XBOX, as been a massive failure. They wouldn't be silly enough to gamble that hard on the future of Windows, one of their major cash cows.

As I said earlier, like it or not their customer is business. They may want the consumer, but they will be hoping to win them over long-term, not with a single release as you're eluding to here.

The Start Menu:

Only on Windows does it make sense to click Start to shut down.

They seriously think that this mess of cascading menus is better than the Program Manager?

UAC:

I always turn it off - it is completely useless for Power Users.

They'll get rid of it in the next version - no one likes it.

Search:

Search is only useful for people too stupid to organize their Start Menu.

Turn off the search indexer - it will free up system resources.

It's not that Microsoft hasn't thrown wrenches into established workflows in the past. Every time they do it, it's the end of the world.

Keep in mind Microsoft is listening to the customers and changing the features to give people less reason to hate them. For instance, in Vista everyone got pinched by UAC. If you did "administrative" tasks like rename a folder or copy files you'd be getting 4 or 5 UAC prompts during the process. In Windows 7 MS toned it down enough that you will see them only when installing and removing programs, for the most part. The complaints of it died down because UAC was radically improved between Vista and 7.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

They just said they weren't supported. And with good reason. Every Focus we put them in eventually corrupted and had to be reformatted. I think MS shunned SD cards because WP7 simply didn't do them well (the whole unified memory thing). MS lies of course like all business' when needed. All fixed in WP8 so they're good now.

eh, no.

Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

eh, no.

Perhaps I should be more specific, removable SD cards (as users are accustomed to using an SD card; as fixed and now usable in WP8) and non-certified SD cards as they become a part of unified memory under WP7 and just don't work well. Even certified cards would corrupt and require reformatting of all memory in our experience, hence, we stopped allowing their use.

From Microsoft:

  • The SD card slot in your phone is intended to be used only by the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) that built your phone and your Mobile Operator (MO). These partners can add an SD card to this slot to expand the amount of storage on your phone.
  • To help ensure a great user experience, Microsoft has performed exhaustive testing to determine which SD cards perform well with Windows Phone 7 devices. Microsoft has worked closely with OEMs and MOs to ensure that they only add these cards to Windows Phone 7 devices.
  • You should not remove the SD card in your phone or add a new one because your Windows Phone 7 device might not work properly. Existing data on the phone will be lost, and the SD card in your phone can't be used in other Windows Phones, PCs, or other devices.

Mentor

Kyang

Posted
Posted
Keep in mind Microsoft is listening to the customers and changing the features to give people less reason to hate them. For instance, in Vista everyone got pinched by UAC. If you did "administrative" tasks like rename a folder or copy files you'd be getting 4 or 5 UAC prompts during the process. In Windows 7 MS toned it down enough that you will see them only when installing and removing programs, for the most part. The complaints of it died down because UAC was radically improved between Vista and 7.

I never had UAC prompts from just renaming a folder.

I think you mean you had UAC prompts for renaming a folder within obviously "Dangerous" parts of the OS like system32 or Program files, right?

Grand Master

Growled Member

Posted
  • Member
Posted

I never had UAC prompts from just renaming a folder.

I think you mean you had UAC prompts for renaming a folder within obviously "Dangerous" parts of the OS like system32 or Program files, right?

Probably. However, you probably could give the rights to a folder in a user space to Admin and get one. That's not likely to happen under normal circumstances, though.

Contributor

I am Not PCyr

Posted
Posted

BajiRav

you said

"unless Windows 8 is a spectacular flop which is unlikely given the apparent good start."

I disagree for example wikipedia states the result is mixed NOT good.

Maybe you should go and edit the wikipedia page lol

and DotMatrix

Your reply seems fair but i have 2 thoughts.

You never addressed your motivations.. why is this such a battle for you ?

Why are people not allowed to dislike things on Windows 8 ?

Also for the most part i heard you stating your opinions and i won't dare say they are wrong

but lets keep things in context.. I have an opinion too.. so what lol

What makes your right and mine wrong ? What you typed out didn't make a compelling argument for me personally

For others ya maybe ?? And Windows is not designed for a subset of the public tradionaly

and having M$ slash and burn all their products and services and merge them into one so called "unified"

platform means more than ever they should be trying to please a wider audience.

And you gave me your opinionon M$'s direction and here iis mine in response.

M$ shouldn't be killing good practices because some people are bored with windows.

That sounds an awful lot like change for changes sake to me.

Don't forget you can always go and install software after installing windows..

We don't need to get carried away with bundling things into the OS..

Not when they are doing stuff liek removing WMC lol

You should read the quote posted at wikipedia from this guy..

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes from ZDNet wrote: "The biggest problem with Windows 8 is that it wasn't born out of a need or demand. Its design failures, particularly with ?Metro UI? will likely be its downfall."[115]

edit:

I don't see the problem here if M$ can please everyone. What is wrong with adding some options to an OS

that will please both sides ? of Say the Metro interface for example. If both sides get what they want then why is only one side complaining ?

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

Perhaps I should be more specific, removable SD cards (as users are accustomed to using an SD card; as fixed and now usable in WP8) and non-certified SD cards as they become a part of unified memory under WP7 and just don't work well. Even certified cards would corrupt and require reformatting of all memory in our experience, hence, we stopped allowing their use.

From Microsoft:

  • The SD card slot in your phone is intended to be used only by the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) that built your phone and your Mobile Operator (MO). These partners can add an SD card to this slot to expand the amount of storage on your phone.
  • To help ensure a great user experience, Microsoft has performed exhaustive testing to determine which SD cards perform well with Windows Phone 7 devices. Microsoft has worked closely with OEMs and MOs to ensure that they only add these cards to Windows Phone 7 devices.
  • You should not remove the SD card in your phone or add a new one because your Windows Phone 7 device might not work properly. Existing data on the phone will be lost, and the SD card in your phone can't be used in other Windows Phones, PCs, or other devices.

I think you're confusing software with hardware compatibility.

M$

M$'s

M$

M$

And that's where everything you said became meaningless ramble that there's no point reading or responding to. Actually that happened at the first one, the rest your cemented it.

though I was starting to feel it already when you mentioned Wikipedia.

Grand Master

Original Poster

Posted
Posted

Chief Marketing and Financial Officer for Windows opened up the Credit Suisse Annual Tech conference with the news that Windows 8 has sold 40 million licenses so far.

Can we stop the foolish debate of it being a flop now? thanks! would appreciate getting back to talking about fun stuff!

its cause people dont have a choice when buying a new laptop... I have "down graded" to windows 7 and linux for a few people lately

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

BajiRav

you said

I disagree for example wikipedia states the result is mixed NOT good.

Maybe you should go and edit the wikipedia page lol

and DotMatrix

Your reply seems fair but i have 2 thoughts.

You never addressed your motivations.. why is this such a battle for you ?

Why are people not allowed to dislike things on Windows 8 ?

Also for the most part i heard you stating your opinions and i won't dare say they are wrong

but lets keep things in context.. I have an opinion too.. so what lol

What makes your right and mine wrong ? What you typed out didn't make a compelling argument for me personally

For others ya maybe ?? And Windows is not designed for a subset of the public tradionaly

and having M$ slash and burn all their products and services and merge them into one so called "unified"

platform means more than ever they should be trying to please a wider audience.

And you gave me your opinionon M$'s direction and here iis mine in response.

M$ shouldn't be killing good practices because some people are bored with windows.

That sounds an awful lot like change for changes sake to me.

Don't forget you can always go and install software after installing windows..

We don't need to get carried away with bundling things into the OS..

Not when they are doing stuff liek removing WMC lol

You should read the quote posted at wikipedia from this guy..

[/sup]

edit:

I don't see the problem here if M$ can please everyone. What is wrong with adding some options to an OS

that will please both sides ? of Say the Metro interface for example. If both sides get what they want then why is only one side complaining ?

I want to reply to this, but the copious use of "M$" tells me you're trolling.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Posts

    • 7 Days: Windows 11 turns five, Ford made a mistake, and Starlink plans direct mobile service

      By Aditya Tiwari · Posted

      7 Days: Windows 11 turns five, Ford made a mistake, and Starlink plans direct mobile service by Aditya Tiwari 7 Days is a weekly roundup of picks of what's been happening in the world of technology - written with a dash of humor, a hint of exasperation, and an endless supply of (black) coffee. This week's highlights include Apple's $4 billion class-action lawsuit, a smartphone with a 14,000 mAh battery, Google catching up with Anthropic, and the Steam Summer Sale 2026. Let's get started. You can check out the recent issues of the 7 Days weekly roundup. Windows 11 turns five Microsoft's Windows 11 operating system completed five years of existence on June 24 this week. According to the latest data, the controversial operating system now runs on almost 72% of Windows PCs worldwide. The launch of Windows 11 had several dramatic twists and an entire preview build leaked ahead of launch. Ford made a mistake Many would agree that one of the biggest mistakes the automobile industry made was surrendering to the giant touchscreens and removing physical buttons. However, Ford made even more. The company executives said they made a mistake by replacing human engineers with AI. Ford admitted that AI couldn't replace experienced engineers and the company is rehiring veterans to improve quality and cut recall costs. Starlink mobile service Elon Musk's SpaceX wants to use its massive constellation of satellites to power your phone's network. The company is reportedly considering building a terrestrial mobile network to complement Starlink’s satellite coverage and planning to sell mobile phone plans directly to customers in the US as part of a wider expansion of Starlink. Our Features Our coffee-powered team published a platter of editorials, opinion posts, hands-on experiences, and guides. Check them out: Hey Google, these are the Gemini features I want in 2026 You've tried DuckDuckGo and Brave Search, now get serious with SearXNG Why Delta Chat is the best decentralized messenger you have probably never tried We check out the SKG PS700 Neck Massager SKG Hand Massager with Heat OS500 hands on Hands-on with BOOX Tappy: cute little reading accessory Hands-on with the ProtoArc EM25: Affordable ergonomic mouse that focuses on the right things Hands-on with iFlyTek AINote 2 E-Ink tablet: insanely thin and smart This week in software news Catch up on some of the latest software news updates that arrived throughout the week: Firefox 152.02: The latest browser update brought fixes for performance, translation, and cloud storage services. It addressed problems with localization, playback issues with certain MP4 files, and performance issues on websites that perform multiple encryption operations simultaneously. Ubuntu Livepatch: Canonical's zero-downtime service Livepatch arrived on Arm64 devices running Ubuntu Core 26 and Ubuntu 26.04 LTS. Livepatch allows users to apply important kernel updates without any service interruption or rebooting. AMD 26.6.2 driver: The new driver version for Radeon hardware owners brought FSR 4.1 upscaling tech to an entire generation of its products: the RX 7000 series. However, the 26.6.2 FSR driver flew dark clouds over users, breaking many Windows PCs and causing a yellow bang or other launch failures on Windows 10. AMD later pushed the 26.6.3 Hotfix update to fix the issues. Goodbye Notion email: It's been a little over a year since the AI-powered email client launched. The company has announced its shutdown, which will take effect on September 22, and said it doesn't see the point in maintaining a frontend email client when people are moving towards automation. Ventoy version 1.1.14: The biggest change in the Rufus alternative is an updated Secure Boot shim file to resolve the UEFI CA 2023 issue, a compatibility problem that affected Secure Boot environments on some systems. This week in hardware news Image: Valve Catch up on some of the latest software news updates that arrived throughout the week: 14,000 mAh battery: Yes, that's something that iPhone users can only dream of. But a Chinese company is reportedly developing a smartphone with a 14,000mAh battery. If it ever sees daylight, it would be the largest battery ever on a smartphone, possibly offering a week of backup on a single charge. Steam Machine prices: Valve finally confirmed the Steam Machine's pricing. Starting at $1,049 for the 512GB option, storage and the included controller are the biggest differences among the four variants presented. Xbox just got more expensive: Rising costs of storage and memory prompted Microsoft to raise prices. Xbox Series X|S models wth 512GB storage will cost $100 extra, and 1TB models will cost $150 extra. However, the Redmond giant discounted the 2TB models. New NVIDIA supercomputers: The company announced plans to deploy 35 high-performance (HPC) AI supercomputers across Europe this year, primarily at national supercomputer centers, AI factories, and research institutes. Fast fast memory: Samsung built the UFS 5.0 storage solution, which pushes the data transfer speeds to 10.8 GB/s on mobile devices. It can open doors for faster local AI performance, which otherwise doesn't look promising under the current scenario. Custom chips for TikTok: Qualcomm is reportedly in talks with ByteDance to build custom video chips optimized for its massive data center workloads. ByteDance needs hardware that can help it ingest, process, and serve billions of short-form videos daily. OpenAI Jalapeño: The AI giant announced its first custom-designed AI chip developed in partnership with Broadcom. Jalapeño is designed specifically for large language model inference and is the first product from a multi-generation compute platform being developed by OpenAI. Galaxy A27 5G: The new mid-range smartphone from Samsung arrived with a platter of updates over A25 5G, including a 120Hz refresh rate, Infinity-O punch-hole camera design, expanded AI features, and more. Qualcomm takes on NVIDIA: The chipmaker baked the new Dragonfly CPU, High Bandwidth Compute technology, and AI chips to challenge NVIDIA in the AI data center market. Qualcomm said its new lineup improved per-watt performance, token throughput, and total cost of ownership for AI data centers. IBM goes sub-1nm: The company reached a semiconductor milestone by announcing the world's first sub-1-nanometer chip technology, based on a 0.7nm (7-angstrom) node. It can pack nearly 100 billion transistors onto a chip the size of a fingernail. This week in Google News Image: Google Catch up on some of the latest Google news updates that arrived throughout the week: What to expect from the Pixel 11 series: The upcoming lineup is expected to feature four different variants and a price hike due to the global memory shortage. Read our detailed coverage to know about the expected Pixel 11 specs. Stopping Google: The Free Software Foundation Europe urged the European Commission to stop Google from silently reinstalling AI models and requiring registration. Users should be able to fully uninstall AI-based features from Android devices and access interoperability features. Chasing Anthropic: The Claude-maker is making new strides every day in the AI world, but the search giant is struggling to catch up. Google is said to be reshuffling its AI coding "strike team" it created roughly about two months ago, turning it into a broader model-training group amid talent losses at DeepMind. New Google Play billing: Google has faced a long legal battle with Epic Games, and the search giant is rolling out a redesigned Play Store billing and fee structure. Available in the US, UK, and the European Economic Area, it will take effect on June 30. Error-free Sheets? A new feature in Google Sheets allows Gemini to inspect formula errors and apply corrections directly in the spreadsheet. Google said the new feature can handle pretty much everything from basic arithmetic to very complex calculations. Breeze through airports: Google Wallet became the first digital wallet to integrate with TSA PreCheck Touchless ID, a program that enables travelers to move through airport security checkpoints using facial recognition instead of a physical ID or boarding pass. Built-in computer control: Gemini 3.5 Flash got a built-in tool called Computer Use, which allows developers to build agents that navigate browsers, mobile interfaces, and desktop applications. Google Finance: The redesigned platform is now out of beta. Google has added several new features, including portfolio tracking, scheduled market briefings, and a dedicated Android app. An iOS app is planned for later in 2026. This week in Apple News Image: Apple Catch up on some of the latest Apple news updates that arrived throughout the week: Trade secrets reportedly exposed: Apple's manufacturing partner in India, Tata Electronics, confirmed a cybersecurity attack on its systems that may have exposed trade secrets of Apple and Tesla. Hackers reportedly stole up to 630 GB of data and posted up to 200,000 files on the dark web. Grab your payout: Apple is facing a class-action lawsuit in the UK and might end up paying $4 billion (£3 billion) if it loses. The iPhone-maker has been accused of trapping users in iCloud by restricting rivals from fully accessing iOS. The tribunal recently set a full trial date for October 2028. iOS 27 Beta 2: Apple's latest iPhone update is moving forward, and a new beta was pushed this week. While iOS 27 Beta 2 for developers pushed several bug fixes across the system, the AirPort Utility was deprecated; it's no longer available to new users. Price hike: Just like others, Apple has raised prices of several MacBook and iPad models, including the MacBook Neo, which now starts at $699. This comes after reports that this year's iPhone will also become expensive. Second-gen iPhone Fold: While the world is desperate to see Apple's foldable iPhone, leakers have started to talk about its second generation. Apple is expected to launch a successor in Fall 2027, featuring a wider folding display while reusing the same screen found in the first generation. The search for memory: Apple is reportedly looking at blacklisted Chinese companies amid rising memory chip prices. The company is seeking clearance from the Trump administration to purchase memory from ChangXin Memory Technologies (CXMT). This week in Meta news Image: Meta Catch up on some of the latest Meta, WhatsApp, and Instagram updates that arrived throughout the week: WhatsApp gets a new final boss: Mark Zuckerberg announced that CRED's Kunal Shah will become the next global head of WhatsApp, as Will Cathcart steps down and moves to a new role at Meta. The social media giant invested money in CRED through a Series H funding round. AI glasses in 26 styles: A new line of Meta Glasses launched in partnership with EssilorLuxottica. Starting at $299, it comes in more than two dozen styles across different colors, lenses, and frames. More ways to doomscroll: Instagram for TV is now available on Samsung smart TVs launched in 2020 and later years. The company also announced that it's testing several new features on Instagram for TV, bringing it closer to YouTube and Netflix. This week in AI news Image: Microsoft Catch up on the latest artificial intelligence news updates that arrived throughout the week: Water-saving data center: Microsoft is building a gas-powered AI data center with a capacity of 2 gigawatts. The company will deploy a closed-loop cooling system, saying that its total lifecycle water use will be "only a fraction of that consumed annually by a typical fast-food restaurant.” OpenAI beats Claude Mythos: GPT-5.5-Cyber got a limited release for verified defenders. It scored 85.6% on CyberGym, compared with 81.8% for GPT-5.5 and 83.8% for Claude Mythos 5. The AI giant also announced a limited preview of its new GPT-5.6 model series, whose flagship model, GPT-5.6 Sol, is targeted at demanding reasoning and agentic workloads. Proceed with caution: The Trump administration instructed OpenAI to limit the distribution of GPT-5.6 to a small group of government-approved partners rather than the general public, as has happened in the past. Claude Tag: Anthropic launched its new AI teammate for Slack, enabling teams to delegate tasks to Claude directly within Slack channels. What makes it different is that it's designed to operate as a shared assistant for an entire team rather than a single user. Challenging US dominance: The UK government has funded £60 million ($70 million) to Oxford and UCL to keep the country in the AI race by building open-source, low-hardware alternatives. The two organizations will share the money over six years. Paying for AI development: One cost is the loss of human jobs. Oracle laid off about 21,000 employees (13% of its workforce) amid increasing AI adoption. The software giant said that AI advancement and adoption "may continue to result in reductions to our workforce." GitHub strips features: It removed the ability to manually detect an AI model from its Copilot Free and Student plans. In other words, its automatic routing system is the only way to choose a model. Are you a copycat? Anthropic accused Alibaba of creating about 25,000 fraudulent accounts to copy Claude's capabilities at scale. It told US lawmakers that operators linked to Alibaba generated 28.8 million exchanges with Claude between April 22 and June 5, 2026. Reserve my memory: The semiconductor company Micron revealed that AI companies are spending billions to lock up its memory years in advance. Its customers have locked in $22 billion worth of memory supply commitments. Another AI battle: A publisher group that collectively owns 400 newspapers sued OpenAI and Microsoft for scraping their content to build AI chatbots such as ChatGPT and Copilot without compensation. Anthropic AI ban: The US government partially reversed the Anthropic AI ban, allowing it to restore Claude Mythos 5. However, it can only be deployed for a limited set of US organizations that operate and defend critical infrastructure. This week in Microsoft News In some of the hottest stories of the week: Windows 10 quietly gained a year of support and updates, Windows 11 KB5095093 released with a long list of features, and Windows 11 26H2 is finally getting the ability to disable web search results in Windows 11 Search. You can check out Taras's freshly baked Microsoft Weekly roundup to catch up on all the interesting stories this week. This week in science news Image by Pascal Küffer via Pexels Catch up on some of the latest science and out-of-this-world updates that arrived throughout the week: 13 billion-year-old secret: Scientists found that the universe's first molecule (helium hyride) reacted with hydrogen much faster in cold temperatures than previously believed. It's a new breakthrough that changes our understanding of early star formation. Cosmic Living Fossil: Astronomers found CR3, a surprisingly pristine 11.5-billion-year-old galaxy dubbed a "living fossil." It suggests the universe's first generation of stars formed much later than previously assumed. Einstein's 100-year-old theory: Thanks to relativity, researchers calculated that clocks on Mars tick 477 microseconds faster per day than on Earth. This minute gravitational difference is crucial for synchronizing future interplanetary space missions. Don't panic: NASA's James Webb Telescope finally eliminated the threat of asteroid 2024 YR4 striking the moon in 2032. The rocky giant will give us a safe fly-by without causing any harm. This week in gaming? The latest issue of Pulasthi's Weekend PC Game Deals curates several exciting games on sale this week. RollerCoaster Tycoon 3 Complete Edition and Voidwrought have replaced the old titles in this week's Epic Games Store giveaway. For Xbox Free Play Days, the new titles include House Flipper 2, Blades of Fire, and Assetto Corsa Competizione. Steam Summer Sale 2026 kicked off with discounts for everything from the newest games and retro gems to all sorts of DLC packs, until July 9. Meanwhile, NVIDIA GeForce NOW added support for several new titles, including Dark Scrolls, SAND: Raiders of Sophie, and EMPULSE. That said, here are some more stories from the gaming world: Age of Empires Mobile comes to PC, here's how to carry over progress from your phone Xbox Insiders get Xbox 360 achievements and Gamertag character upgrades Grand Theft Auto VI pricing revealed alongside Ultimate Edition and pre-loading details Sony announces Bungie layoffs that will affect "significant number of employees" From the review corner This week, Steven published a review of the TerraMaster F4-425 Pro AI-powered NAS, featuring an all-metal exterior on the lines of the four-bay F4-425 series. Powered by the octa-core Intel Core N350, the TerraMaster F4-425 Pro is highly energy-efficient, operates quietly, and offers three M.2 slots. On the flip side, OpenClaw support requires removing security hardening (SPC), AI requires a paid subscription, the software feels like a beta, and the rubber feet constantly come unstuck. ZimaBoard 2 1664 Starter Kit Another NAS setup reviewed this week is the ZimaBoard 2 by IceWhale Technology. It comes in a small footprint with great modern hardware through a combo of Intel N150 and DDR5 memory support. On the downside, the memory is not upgradeable, ZimaOS is a bit barebones, factory reset requires USB flashing, and there is no automatic backup via the mobile app. Synology's BeeCamera software Christopher wrote his review of the software that powers BeeCamera Plus and said "the BeeCamera app is a great way to add private home monitoring to your network but there are some limitations." It's free with an easy setup process, fast response time, and good AI and detection features. However, there is no desktop version; it only works with Synology cameras, some configurations are difficult to set up on a phone, and it lacks the features of the surveillance station. More price drops! We got you covered with some hot tech deals all week. For some reason, if you missed out on a great discount, here is a summary of some recent deals that are still alive: Onkyo Dolby Atmos AV receivers are really solid deals 4TB TEAMGROUP MP44Q, 2TB T-Force G50, and 2TB WD My Passport SSDs drop to great prices Edifier S3000MKII hi-fi audiophile grade bookshelf speaker is at its lowest price now The best controller for XBOX and PC is down to the lowest price Limited time Prime Day deal cuts price of this Hisense 65" 4K smart TV in half To view all of our recent deals, click here. So, these were some of the biggest tech news and other updates from this week. There will be more issues of our 7 Days series in the coming weeks and months, so stay tuned. You can also support Neowin by registering for a free member account or subscribing to extra member benefits, along with an ad-free tier option. Have a great weekend!
    • Politically funny images of the World

      By snowy owl · Posted

    • Zen Browser 1.21.4b

      By Copernic · Posted

      Zen Browser 1.21.4b by Razvan Serea Zen Browser is a privacy-focused, open-source web browser built on Mozilla Firefox, offering users a secure and customizable browsing experience. It emphasizes privacy by blocking trackers, ads, and ensuring your data isn't collected. With Zen Mods, users can enhance their browser experience with various customization options, including features like split views and vertical tabs. The browser is designed for efficiency, providing fast browsing speeds and a lightweight interface. Zen Browser prioritizes user control over the browsing experience, offering a minimal yet powerful alternative to traditional web browsers while keeping your online activity private. Zen Browser’s DRM limitation Zen Browser currently lacks support for DRM-protected content, meaning streaming services like Netflix and HBO Max are inaccessible. This is due to the absence of a Widevine license, which requires significant costs and is financially unfeasible for the developer. Additionally, applying for this license would require Zen to be part of a larger company, similar to Mozilla or Brave. Therefore, DRM-protected media won't be supported in Zen Browser for the foreseeable future. Zen Browser offers features that improve user experience, privacy, and customization: Privacy-Focused: Blocks trackers and minimizes data collection. Automatic Updates: Keeps the browser updated with security patches. Zen Mods: Customizable themes and layouts. Workspaces: Organize tabs into different workspaces. Compact Mode: Maximizes screen space by minimizing UI elements. Zen Glance: Quick website previews. Split Views: View multiple tabs in the same window. Sidebar: Access bookmarks and tools quickly. Vertical Tabs: Manage tabs vertically. Container Tabs: Separate browsing sessions. Fast Profile Switcher: Switch between profiles easily. Tab Folders: Organize tabs into folders. Customizable UI: Personalize browser interface. Security Features: Inherits Firefox’s robust security. Fast Performance: Lightweight and optimized for speed. Zen Mods Customization: Deep customization with mods. Quick Access: Easy access to favorite websites. Open Source: Built on Mozilla Firefox with community collaboration. Community-Driven: Active development and feedback from users. GitHub Repository: Contribute and review the source code. Zen Browser 1.21.4b changelog: New Features Updated to Firefox 152.0.2 and 152.0.3 Added 'Edit pinned tab' context menu item to manually set a pinned tab's URL Added 'Add Route for Domain' context menu item to quickly add a tab's domain to the Space Routing settings Fixes Prevent sidebar from flickering when moving a tab (#14131) Full-screening while on a glance tab will now expand the glance tab to a normal tab (#11766) Fixed space routing tabs opening in background when it should be in foreground (#14183) Other minor bug fixes and improvements. Download: Zen Browser | 90.2 MB (Open Source) Download: Zen Browser ARM64 | Other Operating Systems View: Zen Browser Home Page | Screenshots 1 | 2 | Reddit Get alerted to all of our Software updates on Twitter at @NeowinSoftware
    • You've tried DuckDuckGo and Brave Search, now get serious with SearXNG

      By Som · Posted

      I was using searxng for about a year , self hosted, but results were starting to timeout and eventually it became unusable so I switched to degoog. Much better for my needs, more polished and add-ons like maps and calculations etc
    • Politically funny images of the World

      By PsYcHoKiLLa · Posted

      Fake Superman doing the Anti-Trump PR for us, good man !

  • Recent Achievements

    • Reacting Well
      JuvenileDelinquent earned a badge
      Reacting Well
    • One Month Later
      Excellence2025 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Excellence2025 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      Woland13 earned a badge
      Week One Done

  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      504
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      205
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      149
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      72
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      69
    Show More

  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!