Shooting at mall in Portland

[BGM]

interesting, didn't realise it had ever been banned, why did it fail? Can't watch the video at work, no sound.

it's clear to me then that the only solution is to just let everyone shoot themselves :D

[ILikeTobacco]

interesting, didn't realise it had ever been banned, why did it fail? Can't watch the video at work, no sound.

it's clear to me then that the only solution is to just let everyone shoot themselves :D

No idea for the real reason for failing but Washington DC is a pretty corrupt city, and not just saying that because of the politics. Crime rates are pretty high there. Knowing that law abiding citizens won't have a weapon on them just takes the risk out of robbing someone at gunpoint.

The video is just a funny clip of how criminals would see the gun free zone signs and stop robbing people there because they can't use their guns in the gun free zone.

[FlintyV]

No idea for the real reason for failing but Washington DC is a pretty corrupt city, and not just saying that because of the politics. Crime rates are pretty high there. Knowing that law abiding citizens won't have a weapon on them just takes the risk out of robbing someone at gunpoint.

The video is just a funny clip of how criminals would see the gun free zone signs and stop robbing people there because they can't use their guns in the gun free zone.

Homicides did fall in Washington DC in 1976 (a 3.3%/month drop in firearm-homicides & .6%/month drop in firearm-suicides) and and the decade following the ban was on average lower than the decade preceding the ban. The full effectiveness of the ban wasn't really achieved and that can be attributed to the likes of neighbouring states not following suit with gun bans and there's also the advent of the crack market which saw violence increase on the whole.

[ILikeTobacco]

Homicides did fall in Washington DC in 1976 (a 3.3%/month drop in firearm-homicides & .6%/month drop in firearm-suicides) and and the decade following the ban was on average lower than the decade preceding the ban. The full effectiveness of the ban wasn't really achieved and that can be attributed to the likes of neighbouring states not following suit with gun bans and there's also the advent of the crack market which saw violence increase on the whole.

So you are admitting that the ban caused a 73% increase in gun related homicides and that the ban wasn't what lowered the rate, but rather other things? Got it. When the gun ban was lifted, gun related homicide rates plummeted. Guns will never simply disappear because magic doesn't exist. Stop kidding yourself. Ban guns and the only people that are heavily armed will be the criminals. As I said, the video was a parody. Stop believing it is real life. Magic doesn't exist so get over it.

Just to take it further before you start spouting more lies about how magic exists, the fall in gun related homicides in the late 1980s came from the overall crime rate drops that were happening nationwide. You claim that the crack market caused crime to spike, yet during the time the crack market came about, that is the late 1980s to the early 1990s, gun related crime rates in DC, and nationwide, were falling. So are you now going to suggest that crack helps fight crime?

[FlintyV]

So you are admitting that the ban caused a 73% increase in gun related homicides and that the ban wasn't what lowered the rate, but rather other things? Got it. When the gun ban was lifted, gun related homicide rates plummeted. Guns will never simply disappear because magic doesn't exist. Stop kidding yourself. Ban guns and the only people that are heavily armed will be the criminals. As I said, the video was a parody. Stop believing it is real life. Magic doesn't exist so get over it.

Just to take it further before you start spouting more lies about how magic exists, the fall in gun related homicides in the late 1980s came from the overall crime rate drops that were happening nationwide. You claim that the crack market caused crime to spike, yet during the time the crack market came about, that is the late 1980s to the early 1990s, gun related crime rates in DC, and nationwide, were falling. So are you now going to suggest that crack helps fight crime?

Ah I see logic and common sense don't apply in this thread.

[ILikeTobacco]

Ah I see logic and common sense don't apply in this thread.

Says the guy that claims that criminals follow the law. You claimed that the crack is why the gun crimes went up, even though that the crack market didn't explode until 15 years after the ban, when DC's rates were declining, as were the rest of the country's gun crime rates.

Overly strict gun control laws were tried in the US and failed. Just because it works in Europe or else wear doesn't mean it works here. There is a reason each region in the world has its own laws. Different cultures require different laws.

[FlintyV]

Says the guy that claims that criminals follow the law. You claimed that the crack is why the gun crimes went up, even though that the crack market didn't explode until 15 years after the ban, when DC's rates were declining, as were the rest of the country's gun crime rates.

Overly strict gun control laws were tried in the US and failed. Just because it works in Europe or else wear doesn't mean it works here. There is a reason each region in the world has its own laws. Different cultures require different laws.

Where did I ever say criminals follow the law? If they did they would't be criminals. :rolleyes:

[ILikeTobacco]

Where did I ever say criminals follow the law? If they did they would't be criminals. :rolleyes:

You said that a gun ban would lower gun homicides in the US. Since we know that banning guns won't change the number of firearms out there as seen in places like DC where even with the gun ban and the current assault rifle ban, there are just as many people with guns, it means you think that just because guns are banned criminals will see the ban and think to themselves, I guess I have to find something else to kill people with. In Europe, where guns were never as readily available, gun bans in the past made gun related homicides go down. In the US the exact opposite has been proven to be true. Every location in the US where gun bans took effect caused gun related homicides to spike, not decrease. Again, different cultures need different laws. Gun bans have failed repeatedly in the US, not stop claiming magic exists, since magic is the only way all the guns would instantly disappear. The only way a gun ban can have any effect is if guns 100% disappeared instantly, since that won't happen, what you are claiming is that criminals will follow the law, since nothing else, as it has been proven multiple times, will lower gun crime.

Also, New York city.... so again, your entire argument fails. Not to mention, a competent metal worker can build a homemade gun, the same way they did DC. The past proves you wrong.

[Noir Angel]

Oh yes, handing out guns to even more people that really shouldn't have them is a great plan. :rolleyes:

I suppose you also think the key to put out a fire is to add more fuel.

Gun nuts thinking? That would be a first

Even in most gun free countries criminals find a way to get a gun, and use it.

Yeah, in a panicked situation with people probably running about all over the place and complete panic it would help matter so much to have a bunch of untrained civilians also popping their guns all over the place.

There's a reason pro-gunners are referred to as "gun nuts" around here. Just look at this thread as an incredible example.

"He used an AR15. I'm gonna have to buy one before it gets banned!" What a freakin' joke.

Amen.

The AR15 is Kingcracker's weapon of choice. I'm pretty sure I remember him telling me that because it was semi auto that the chances of it being used in a shooting spree were remote.

Even in most gun free countries criminals find a way to get a gun, and use it.

That's odd because it's incredibly difficult for criminals to get guns over here. The odd criminal may get one but it's incredibly hard, and prohibitively expensive. It's not about not being unable, it's about Americans being unwilling to actually engage their brains and approach the issue with common sense. Last year if I recall we had 18 gun related homicides in the UK. In America some cities may get that many gun related homicides in a single day. Gun prohibition can work, it just helps to also have a populace not completely packed out with gun nuts.

[BGM]

i think the main point here is that criminals still have guns in europe etc.. but they typically do not run around mugging everyone in sight because they are not faced with a weapon pointing back at them. To be quite frank, in London there is a bigger problem with knives than guns... most notably because you use them in the home, and they are a v easily accessible weapon :)

I can only put this down to the weapons being much much harder to get hold of. If you get stopped, pulled over for a faulty headlight etc with a hand gun in the UK you are going to jail man... no matter what you have or haven't done..

it just needs to be really, really strict.

[FlintyV]

You said that a gun ban would lower gun homicides in the US. Since we know that banning guns won't change the number of firearms out there as seen in places like DC where even with the gun ban and the current assault rifle ban, there are just as many people with guns, it means you think that just because guns are banned criminals will see the ban and think to themselves, I guess I have to find something else to kill people with. In Europe, where guns were never as readily available, gun bans in the past made gun related homicides go down. In the US the exact opposite has been proven to be true. Every location in the US where gun bans took effect caused gun related homicides to spike, not decrease. Again, different cultures need different laws. Gun bans have failed repeatedly in the US, not stop claiming magic exists, since magic is the only way all the guns would instantly disappear. The only way a gun ban can have any effect is if guns 100% disappeared instantly, since that won't happen, what you are claiming is that criminals will follow the law, since nothing else, as it has been proven multiple times, will lower gun crime.

Also, New York city.... so again, your entire argument fails. Not to mention, a competent metal worker can build a homemade gun, the same way they did DC. The past proves you wrong.

Again I never claimed that criminals follow the law and for some odd reason you think I'm claiming that magic exists. I'm not sure why you keep insisting on warping what I'm saying.

[ILikeTobacco]

Again I never claimed that criminals follow the law and for some odd reason you think I'm claiming that magic exists. I'm not sure why you keep insisting on warping what I'm saying.

I am not warping anything. You claim gun bans make gun murders go down in the USA. The only way that is possible is if criminals actually care what the law says. Since we know that gun bans have the exact opposite effect of what you are claiming to be true, as seen in DC and NYC, you are claiming a miracle(also known as magic) will happen and criminals will all of a sudden start obeying the laws.

And in context of this event at the Portland mall, where guns are banned, a gun ban had no effect. It happened anyway. Funny how all the public shootings only happen in places were guns are banned though just giving more proof that a gun ban does nothing to stop criminals from doing this.

[FlintyV]

I am not warping anything. You claim gun bans make gun murders go down in the USA. The only way that is possible is if criminals actually care what the law says. Since we know that gun bans have the exact opposite effect of what you are claiming to be true, as seen in DC and NYC, you are claiming a miracle(also known as magic) will happen and criminals will all of a sudden start obeying the laws.

And in context of this event at the Portland mall, where guns are banned, a gun ban had no effect. It happened anyway. Funny how all the public shootings only happen in places were guns are banned though just giving more proof that a gun ban does nothing to stop criminals from doing this.

That's why a nationwide ban would be much better. Yes, the only think to stop these shootings is more guns, there's some sound logic right there...

[Marshall Veteran]

This thread has run it's course. We already have a Gun Debate Thread.

Closed