Windows 8 Falls Behind Even the Maligned Vista

[linsook]

Age isn't a factor in how one decides to organize. I know people who have 10 IE toolbars and a desktop full of shortcuts and files and ones who don't This cuts across age barriers. Probably a lot like people and how clean their car is on the inside. Age isn't a definitive predictor of how clean one will have the inside of their car.

well then, if they didn't care to begin with, the mess they create on the start screen wouldn't bother them either. to those of us who like it clean, will make it clean.

[linsook]

ever thought about increasing the size of everything? i think it looks better.

http://i.imgur.com/ZcFs2.jpg

vs.

[Orange Battery]

How is it not easy? Just start typing, and Search automatically opens.

Great stuff, I didn't know that - Why didn't the Store have a message saying that!!!

The annoying thing is that it only works on the front screen of the store.

I'm undecided on the Search myself. I really, really like the idea of a unified location for search, that's in one consistent place, no matter the app, but like you said, sometimes a contextual search should be more obvious.

The best I can offer is that you press Win+Q when in an app. That should activate the search for the app that you're in, rather than search for the system. For example, if you are in the Windows Store, then pressing Win+Q should open a search in the Windows Store, and not elsewhere.

Cool, thanks. I have also now found that the search via the charms menu, keeps you locked into Windows store search. Its now left me questioning everything, and also having to memorise the paths I need to get things done, none of them are intuitive.

[MikeChipshop Member]

I just do not know why some people here are SO against choices. Choices are good.

You have the choice to install ANY 3rd party product to do pretty much absolutely anything with Windows. Is that not enough choice for you?

[HawkMan]

Ok, well here is my start screen. I haven't done anything to it.

Now you will say "Well just unpin all that stuff" True I could, though I don't use the start screen I use start8, but I never had to clean any of that stuff up on windows 7

No in windows 7 instead you either had to pin it in a long list of disorganized pinned apps, or find them in a huge list of nested folders. as opposed to a start screen where you can pin as many of your favorite apps you want, and organize them properly so you can actually find them, in far less time than searching nested folders in the start menu.

[Brinksmat]

There's a lot I find awful about Windows 8.

- Multiple places for settings. You have to mess around looking in the metro settings AND control panel - why not have it all in once place as it was before?

- The UI is a horrible, patchy mess. If they're going to go for metro, then commit to it everywhere. Don't give us a crippled Windows 7 desktop which matches nothing in the rest of the metro OS. Granted it sounds like Windows 'Blue' will fix some of this apparently but it should have been that way to begin with.

- No way to load a program full screen on bootup. For example, trying to put a machine together to load Steam Big Picture fullscreen on bootup for a gaming PC. In windows 8 there isn't a reasonable way to do it. You can get it to load to tray on bootup but you can't load anything full screen automatically before going to desktop as it forces you to load the start screen first. WHAT.

- No Xbox controller support for nagivating start screen. Again, for a gaming/media PC. It would have been easy to introduce and would be an ideal way to navigate the start screen with a wireless xbox pad, to load games etc. I know you can't navigate windows 7 with a pad but it seems like a real wasted opportunity, and would certainly have alleviated the fact you can't load steam big picture on bootup with it.

I could go on and on and on. I tried, really tried to get on with Windows 8. Immersing myself in it only caused great frustration, so it has been wiped in favour of Windows 7 until such time they overhaul significant parts of it.

[Kyang]

Cool, thanks. I have also now found that the search via the charms menu, keeps you locked into Windows store search. Its now left me questioning everything, and also having to memorise the paths I need to get things done, none of them are intuitive.

Everyone got used to "Start > Shutdown". We should be fine. I think.

There's a lot I find awful about Windows 8.

- Multiple places for settings. You have to mess around looking in the metro settings AND control panel - why not have it all in once place as it was before?

- The UI is a horrible, patchy mess. If they're going to go for metro, then commit. Don't give us a crippled desktop which matches nothing in the rest of the metro OS. Granted it sounds like Windows 'Blue' will fix some of this apparently but it should have been that way to begin with.

- No way to load a program full screen on bootup. For example, trying to put a machine together to load Steam Big Picture fullscreen on bootup for a gaming PC. In windows 8 there isn't a reasonable way to do it. You can get it to load to tray on bootup but you can't load anything full screen automatically before going to desktop as it forces you to load the start screen first. WHAT.

I could go on and on and on. I tried, really tried to get on with Windows 8. Immersing myself in it only caused great frustration, so it has been wiped in favour of Windows 7 until such time they overhaul significant parts of it.

When you say the desktop was "crippled", what do you mean?

As for the control panel, I don't know if that will ever really improve. It's always been kind of scattered, and I'm not sure any future version of Windows will change this.

[HawkMan]

yes and no. at least in the start menu things stayed alphabetized and not just in the order that you installed things

I do not dislike the start screen by any means but I think it could still use a little work (looks forward to windows blue update :))

go to all apps in the start screen and it's also listed alphabetized and grouped by folders/apps. the start screen is not a replacement for all programs, it's a replacement for the pinned apps, your favorite apps, the apps you actually use, except that with the start menu, you could only pin so many, and even then they where in a tiny nasty list where you had to search up and down to find the right icon. on the strat screen you can pin as many as you want, and organize them as you want in named groups.

[Brinksmat]

When you say the desktop was "crippled", what do you mean?

As for the control panel, I'm not sure that will ever get better. It's always been kind of scattered, and I'm not sure any future version of Windows will change this.

As in the start menu. All they've done is given us a Windows 7 desktop and crippled it without the start menu, that interface matched that desktop, period.

I can see why they've done the metro interface, it suits touch devices really well. But shoehorning it onto the desktop has simply made things more convoluted.

The desktop needs to be metro-ised to make a coherent experience. There needs to be a single place to configure your machine, not go digging around what may or may not be in the metro config tool and also the control panel.

Everything is too patchy, the start screen feels like it was shoehorned in and parts of the OS were crippled to force you to use it.

There are things I like, like the searching, enhanced task manager/performance monitor etc, but the whole UI experience needs an overhaul. I also like the idea of having information simply displayed to you like that and it not using those silly Widgets. Metro everything though and make it coherent just simply have one interface style.

I'm not saying Windows didn't need an overhaul, I think it was stuck in a design rut and did need something drastic. I simply think they've done it wrong. They've spent far too long focussing on doing something for touch devices and not made it work properly and coherently on PCs. By the sounds of it MS have realised this themselves and might address it with Windows Blue (if it is even real).

[Colin McGregor]

A lot of us felt that Windows 8 might start slowly. It's a huge change and your normal user hates change. If Microsoft stays the course they might begin to win people over eventually. Or maybe not.

normal users love the change. it seems to be the so called techies that whine the most about windows 8. Every "noob" I know that got windows 8 loves it and learned to use it in less then a day. My parents suck at computers and they absolutely love windows 8. My grandma even uses windows 8.

[MikeChipshop Member]

normal users love the change. it seems to be the so called techies that whine the most about windows 8. Every "noob" I know that got windows 8 loves it and learned to use it in less then a day. My parents suck at computers and they absolutely love windows 8. My grandma even uses windows 8.

Quite agree.

It appears to be the crowd that should know better who are fuming because they really couldn't do it any better themselves (which we know any way).

[HawkMan]

As in the start menu. All they've done is given us a Windows 7 desktop and crippled it without the start menu, that interface matched that desktop, period.

I can see why they've done the metro interface, it suits touch devices really well. But shoehorning it onto the desktop has simply made things more convoluted.

The desktop needs to be metro-ised to make a coherent experience. There needs to be a single place to configure your machine, not go digging around what may or may not be in the metro config tool and also the control panel.

Everything is too patchy, the start screen feels like it was shoehorned in and parts of the OS were crippled to force you to use it.

There are things I like, like the searching, enhanced task manager/performance monitor etc, but the whole UI experience needs an overhaul. I also like the idea of having information simply displayed to you like that and it not using those silly Widgets. Metro everything though and make it coherent just simply have one interface style.

I'm not saying Windows didn't need an overhaul, I think it was stuck in a design rut and did need something drastic. I simply think they've done it wrong. They've spent far too long focussing on doing something for touch devices and not made it work properly and coherently on PCs. By the sounds of it MS have realised this themselves and might address it with Windows Blue (if it is even real).

The old start menu doesn't match the desktop at all, it's just an old simple method of providing a launcher menu, the only reason you say it matched is because you're used to it. but there was nothign about it that matched the desktop. the start screen matches the desktop more than the menu with the other changes that's been done.

[dvb2000]

Meanwhile I've shown it to a lot of people at the store and common to them all, they buy windows 8 over the windows 7 computer most of them where planning on.

I hope they bring them all back and get FULL refunds when they realise you lied to them about what it was and how it was going to make their use of a PC much easier.

[Kyang]

As in the start menu. All they've done is given us a Windows 7 desktop and crippled it without the start menu, that interface matched that desktop, period.

I can see why they've done the metro interface, it suits touch devices really well. But shoehorning it onto the desktop has simply made things more convoluted.

The desktop needs to be metro-ised to make a coherent experience. There needs to be a single place to configure your machine, not go digging around what may or may not be in the metro config tool and also the control panel.

Everything is too patchy, the start screen feels like it was shoehorned in and parts of the OS were crippled to force you to use it.

There are things I like, like the searching, enhanced task manager/performance monitor etc, but the whole UI experience needs an overhaul. I also like the idea of having information simply displayed to you like that and it not using those silly Widgets. Metro everything though and make it coherent just simply have one interface style.

I'm not saying Windows didn't need an overhaul, I think it was stuck in a design rut and did need something drastic. I simply think they've done it wrong. They've spent far too long focussing on doing something for touch devices and not made it work properly and coherently on PCs. By the sounds of it MS have realised this themselves and might address it with Windows Blue (if it is even real).

I agree with you on consistency. Parts like the control panel need to be unified. I think I get what you mean by "parts of the OS were crippled to force you to use it" (Like the addition of Charms?) I disagree that the Start menu "matched" the desktop because functionally I think the Start Screen works better, regardless of the environment.

But I'm still a little lost about what you mean with the desktop. When you say metro-ised, do you mean things should be forced to run full screen, legacy applets like "Right-click Taskbar > Properties > Taskbar Properties" should be removed? Because doing such things seems like it would only "cripple" the desktop even more.

Or am I misunderstanding you?

[dvb2000]

reminds me of an OVER cluttered desktop with no space to put anything new. You can see the existing icons have already overflowed WAY to the right, and WAY to the left and would need to be scrolled over to find.

What a nightmare!!!

[Brinksmat]

But I'm still a little lost about what you mean with the desktop. When you say metro-ised, do you mean things should be forced to run full screen, legacy applets like "Right-click Taskbar > Properties > Taskbar Properties" should be removed? Because doing such things seems like it would only "cripple" the desktop even more.

Or am I misunderstanding you?

I just mean in style and design. We have Metro, and then we have desktop. There's no effort put in to making the desktop look like a part of the rest of the OS (start screen, or vice versa). The start screen feels tagged on. The desktop needs a whole overhaul (even just a theme or something).

Ideally, they would move as much OUT of the desktop as possible. Ie, remove the control panel, have a CP tile which brings up a Metro CP app. It would also be nice to have an embedded Metro explorer browser.

In fact, doing a quick search, I found this posted by a fellow Neowiner. https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1097383-concept-for-window-8-metro-file-explorer/

That would be PERFECT. Could be baked right into a start screen/metro app so there was no need to go to desktop to browse the filesystem.

I'm fully in support of moving further to a start screen type interface if they just committed and went further with it. I don't want to have to keep switching between the two for tasks which could simply be moved to the metro interface. My issue isn't with metro, just that they haven't gone metro enough.

[dvb2000]

Windows 8 is a HUGE mistake on Microsoft's part.

Obviously their over-riding plan was to homogenise everything (but that's impossible). Where they may have planned to make every platform look and work the same, all they have actually done is splintered users.

Bottom line is that Windows will end up like linux (and then become irrelevant in the market), where everyone thought "linux is the same" but actually everyone's implementation is different, and ofter programs are designed for specific make or versions of linux and don't work on different brands/releases.

[HawkMan]

I hope they bring them all back and get FULL refunds when they realise you lied to them about what it was and how it was going to make their use of a PC much easier.

how did I lie to them, especially in a live demo.

Bottom line is that Windows will end up like linux (and then become irrelevant in the market), where everyone thought "linux is the same" but actually everyone's implementation is different, and ofter programs are designed for specific make or versions of linux and don't work on different brands/releases.

hahhahaha, omg...

[Niekess]

Windows 8 is rubbish and so are the drivers for it. I don't need any flaming it just my opinion.

The drivers are very good, better then in Windows 7 for my laptop.

With a Windows 8 installation I was ready to do everything I want, only a video card driver.

With Windows 7 did I need to get my USB drive, go to another computer and download network drivers. Else I won't have any connection. :p

[Dot Matrix]

Windows 8 is a HUGE mistake on Microsoft's part.

Obviously their over-riding plan was to homogenise everything (but that's impossible). Where they may have planned to make every platform look and work the same, all they have actually done is splintered users.

Bottom line is that Windows will end up like linux (and then become irrelevant in the market), where everyone thought "linux is the same" but actually everyone's implementation is different, and ofter programs are designed for specific make or versions of linux and don't work on different brands/releases.

Hahahaha. Oh, my...

[Kyang]

I just mean in style and design. We have Metro, and then we have desktop. There's no effort put in to making the desktop look like a part of the rest of the OS (start screen, or vice versa). The start screen feels tagged on. The desktop needs a whole overhaul (even just a theme or something).

Ideally, they would move as much OUT of the desktop as possible. Ie, remove the control panel, have a CP tile which brings up a Metro CP app. It would also be nice to have an embedded Metro explorer browser.

In fact, doing a quick search, I found this posted by a fellow Neowiner. http://www.neowin.ne...-file-explorer/

That would be PERFECT. Could be baked right into a start screen/metro app so there was no need to go to desktop to browse the filesystem.

I'm fully in support of moving further to a start screen type interface if they just committed and went further with it. I don't want to have to keep switching between the two for tasks which could simply be moved to the metro interface. My issue isn't with metro, just that they haven't gone metro enough.

I get you, and I agree. That's clearly the direction MS has set, so I'm confident that what you're describing will arrive soon enough.

[redfish]

reminds me of an OVER cluttered desktop with no space to put anything new. You can see the existing icons have already overflowed WAY to the right, and WAY to the left and would need to be scrolled over to find.

What a nightmare!!!

Yea the default behavior should be for it not to be pinned to the Start Screen and for you to have to manually pin it by going to All apps. But the ability to organize it is much better than the ability to organize the Start Menu. (You have to scroll All programs on the start menu too)

I just mean in style and design. We have Metro, and then we have desktop. There's no effort put in to making the desktop look like a part of the rest of the OS (start screen, or vice versa). The start screen feels tagged on. The desktop needs a whole overhaul (even just a theme or something).

My intuition is Microsoft is eventually going to bring WinRT to the desktop, so you can have click-once installs and natively compiled .NET apps on the desktop. and they were postponing that for a later release.

What I'd eventually like to see is for Microsoft to skip the desktop/metro duality altogether and just have apps that either run in windowed or full screen versions, and switch environments, what Apple is doing with MacOS.

[+jamesyfx Subscriber²]

I think Windows 8 has a bit of a scrambled design. It seems to jump from a familiar Windows experience to an odd, oversized, full-screen mess, and then back again.

If they reeled things back a bit and stuck to just one type of interface design then Windows 9 should be a huge improvement..

[siah1214]

Ok, well here is my start screen. I haven't done anything to it.

Now you will say "Well just unpin all that stuff" True I could, though I don't use the start screen I use start8, but I never had to clean any of that stuff up on windows 7

Herp herp I can play this game too.

The desktop is so much less organized than the start screen, and needs far more babysitting. I keep mine completely empty, and it's nice.

[Kyang]

Herp herp I can play this game too.

The desktop is so much less organized than the start screen, and needs far more babysitting. I keep mine completely empty, and it's nice.

How old is that screenshot? There's the previous IE, the older uTorrent, duplicate Safari icons, etc... Does that say 2009 on the taskbar?

Also, not that I disagree the desktop needs the same if not more managing, but I thought the desktop had Auto-arrange and Align-to-grid enabled by default. Or was it just Align-to-grid? Either way, that's really something.