Restore Start menu but limit it to Pro edition

[TPreston]

Yes because keeping something that works perfectly fine on lower resolutions AND higher resolutions is the wrong thing to do, we must throw random garbage all over the screen just for the sake of the free real estate.

/s

That random garbage is every single program on the computer, And instead of scrolling through them in a tiny menu on the side of the screen they are all displayed at once.

[Dot Matrix]

Yes because keeping something that works perfectly fine on lower resolutions AND higher resolutions is the wrong thing to do, we must throw random garbage all over the screen just for the sake of the free real estate.

/s

Right. Because I want to be cramped into a tiny ass menu populated with tiny 32x32 and 16x16 icons, while running Windows on my 3840x2400 screen...

[xWhiplash]

Right. Because I want to be cramped into a tiny ass menu populated with tiny 32x32 and 16x16 icons, while running Windows on my 3840x2400 screen...

Yet you are fine with giant blocks of tiles all over the place and have to scroll scroll scroll to get to the program you need VS a nice organized way of tucking things in folders....

You know, I really love the attitude here lately. "Deal with it" is a nice thing to say.

Does Microsoft have complete 100% immunity to do whatever they want without consequence?

What if Windows 8 took the Chromebook approach and was mostly online only? Would you guys still say "Deal with it"?

A company is not immune to failures. Yes they can do what they want, but as consumers if it does not work, they will NEED to revert their changes.

[Boo Berry]

Arguing over replacement start menus becomes pointless with Windows Blue. Microsoft has seemingly removed 90%+ of the code needed for replacement start menus to work in the first place. StartIsBack, Start8, etc. They don't work on Windows Blue (at least right now, not sure what can be done about it).

[Dot Matrix]

Yet you are fine with giant blocks of tiles all over the place and have to scroll scroll scroll to get to the program you need VS a nice organized way of tucking things in folders....

You know, I really love the attitude here lately. "Deal with it" is a nice thing to say.

Does Microsoft have complete 100% immunity to do whatever they want without consequence?

What if Windows 8 took the Chromebook approach and was mostly online only? Would you guys still say "Deal with it"?

A company is not immune to failures. Yes they can do what they want, but as consumers if it does not work, they will NEED to revert their changes.

Quit acting like you're two. You have other options. You're wasting more energy complaining, than downloading and installing a third party app.

Microsoft has other plans, and if that doesn't suit you, then too bad so sad. You are not Microsoft, they don't need to check in with you before they go and develop Windows. That is a childish statement to make. Windows is their software, not yours. If they want to develop the Start Screen and remove the Start Menu, they are free to do so. If they want to deprecate Win64, they are free to do so. If they want to include touch enhancements to the OS, they are free to do so. If they want to unify their services with the MDL, they are free to do so.

The Windows Blue leak confirmed that Microsoft has been listening to feedback, buy they still have their own plans, of which the Start Menu plays no part. Again, that's their choosing, and not yours.

[xWhiplash]

I am sorry, how is that acting like I am two years old? I am NOT the one that said "Deal with it", maybe you should tell him to stop acting like he is two. Geez.

If everybody in the business environment wants the Start Menu back, MS would be smart to put it back. Did I once say MS should have checked with me before releasing Windows 8?

But MS is not 100% immune to consequences. So if the majority of the userbase wants the start menu back, and they star losing MASSIVE sales, MS BETTER put the menu back. They ARE NOT IMMUNE to consequence.

If I make product, and make a decision that massively affects my sales, as a business decision, I will change my decision. MS IS NOT IMMUNE to consequence. So telling us to "Deal with it" is rather irritating.

What kind of attitude does that bring us? Sim City? "Deal with it".

If we do not speak up, nothing will happen. WE DO HAVE A VOICE you know as comsumers.

[seta-san]

Quit acting like you're two. You have other options. You're wasting more energy complaining, than downloading and installing a third party app.

Microsoft has other plans, and if that doesn't suit you, then too bad so sad. You are not Microsoft, they don't need to check in with you before they go and develop Windows. That is a childish statement to make. Windows is their software, not yours. If they want to develop the Start Screen and remove the Start Menu, they are free to do so. If they want to deprecate Win64, they are free to do so. If they want to include touch enhancements to the OS, they are free to do so. If they want to unify their services with the MDL, they are free to do so.

The Windows Blue leak confirmed that Microsoft has been listening to feedback, buy they still have their own plans, of which the Start Menu plays no part. Again, that's their choosing, and not yours. That's not how things work.

they don't have to check in on us individually. but collectively they do go out of business. Windows 8 has been the single biggest opening for Linux or Mac to get in and grab market share since Window ME.. Their are two big things that keep people on windows, GAMES and Productivity Apps(photoshop, office). Just ask E.A. where they are starting to shift their gaming bets on. More and more games will be programmed to OpenGL just to keep porting costs between windows and Linux low.. and the only thing about great about Microsoft's office software is it's interconnectivity and exchange services. I'm sure Linux can handle that stuff.

It's going to get harder for Microsoft to compete with free.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

You have other options.

It would be healthier if MS didn't have a quasi-monopoly in the desktop PC space though. I think their market share is still hovering at something around 90% in that particular segment which means lots of stakeholders. Macs are somewhat more expensive to get into and not well-suited for everything (still arguably sub-optimal for gaming for example) and Linux is still (arguably) somewhat esoteric in places and (more importantly) has limited commercial developer support. And of course there's lots of legacy software around. For better or worse a lot of people are still invested in the Windows platform in one way or another.

The situation is completely different in the mobile space and touch market of course.

[Dot Matrix]

I am sorry, how is that acting like I am two years old? I am NOT the one that said "Deal with it", maybe you should tell him to stop acting like he is two. Geez.

If everybody in the business environment wants the Start Menu back, MS would be smart to put it back. Did I once say MS should have checked with me before releasing Windows 8?

No, but you just did now. ("Does Microsoft have complete 100% immunity to do whatever they want without consequence?") suggesting that Microsoft developers work for us, when in fact they do not. They have plans on where to carry the OS forward. And despite the bitter few who will kick and scream, they'll do that regardless. Microsoft unifying their services has already spawned a competitor: Canonical, who is unifying their devices with Unity. Even Apple laughs now, but I bet you they're looking into this as well.

But MS is not 100% immune to consequences. So if the majority of the userbase wants the start menu back, and they star losing MASSIVE sales, MS BETTER put the menu back. They ARE NOT IMMUNE to consequence.

Completely irrational thinking. The majority of their userbase just switched over to Windows 7. Not many are going to make the hop again so quickly, especially businesses. They'll wait for Windows 9 or their next hardware refresh before upgrading, same with consumers who will upgrade when they purchase a new machine or tablet.

Also, quit yelling.

MS IS NOT IMMUNE to consequence. So telling us to "Deal with it" is rather irritating.

What kind of attitude does that bring us? Sim City? "Deal with it".

If we do not speak up, nothing will happen. WE DO HAVE A VOICE you know as comsumers.

This is where you appear to be two. Again, quit yelling. This nonsensical rambling doesn't help your cause. The consequences of changing course, and removing the Start Menu are not as catastrophic as you make them out to be, as users will adapt as they have before in the past.

A company is not immune to failures. Yes they can do what they want, but as consumers if it does not work, they will NEED to revert their changes.

No, they will adapt and move on, not revert. Again, the changes coming in Windows 8 Blue are a clear indication of that. Users wanted XYZ features in the Start Screen, Microsoft listened to them, and now users are getting the features they wanted. Windows 9 will then build off of the changes in Windows 8 Blue, and so forth. Just as it's always been.

The Start Screen is more than just a screen of tiles, it's its own operating environment, complete with a store and a better codebase for development.

[seta-san]

also does anyone think that this start screen is just Microsoft's bad idea rehashed for a third time?

Anyone remember active desktop on windows 98? They would turn your desktop into a webpage with special tools(apps) coded into to?

then that disappeared

then in Vista it sort of reappeared in the form of gadgets on the desktop..

and then they mostly disappeared in 7..

and now we have the start screen. yet another attempt to have crappy little apps that get in the way of serious computing.

[Dot Matrix]

also does anyone think that this start screen is just Microsoft's bad idea rehashed for a third time?

Anyone remember active desktop on windows 98? They would turn your desktop into a webpage with special tools(apps) coded into to?

then that disappeared

then in Vista it sort of reappeared in the form of gadgets on the desktop..

and then they mostly disappeared in 7..

and now we have the start screen. yet another attempt to have crappy little apps that get in the way of serious computing.

These "crappy little apps" are far more functional than desktop gadgets. I don't recall being able to have a Skype chat, while digitizing work into OneNote on Vista Gadgets or Active Desktop...

[seta-san]

No, but you just did now. ("Does Microsoft have complete 100% immunity to do whatever they want without consequence?") suggesting that Microsoft developers work for us, when in fact they do not. They have plans on where to carry the OS forward. And despite the bitter few who will kick and scream, they'll do that regardless. Microsoft unifying their services has already spawned a competitor: Canonical, who is unifying their devices with Unity. Even Apple laughs now, but I bet you they're looking into this as well.

Completely irrational thinking. The majority of their userbase just switched over to Windows 7. Not many are going to make the hop again so quickly, especially businesses. They'll wait for Windows 9 or their next hardware refresh before upgrading, same with consumers who will upgrade when they purchase a new machine or tablet.

Also, quit yelling.

This is where you appear to be two. Again, quit yelling. This nonsensical rambling doesn't help your cause. The consequences of changing course, and removing the Start Menu are not as catastrophic as you make them out to be, as users will adapt as they have before in the past.

No, they will adapt and move on, not revert. Again, the changes coming in Windows 8 Blue are a clear indication of that. Users wanted XYZ features in the Start Screen, Microsoft listened to them, and they are getting just that. Windows 9 will then build off of that, and so forth.

The Start Screen is more than just a screen of tiles, it's its own operating environment, complete with a store and a better codebase for development.

Blue isn't windows 9. it's service pack 1. I think that we all understand that Microsoft can't suddenly change the features of a product on those whom have already bought it.. we can wait for windows 9.

These "crappy little apps" are far more functional than desktop gadgets. I don't recall being able to have a Skype chat, while digitizing work into OneNote on Vista Gadgets or Active Desktop...

yeah.. except for the most part you can only run one app at a time. I can use the desktop version of Skype with Visual Studio, Photoshop, Word, and WoW all in windowed mode and be able to see everything AT ONCE.

[Dot Matrix]

Blue isn't windows 9. it's service pack 1. I think that we all understand that Microsoft can't suddenly change the features of a product on those whom have already bought it.. we can wait for windows 9.

yeah.. except for the most part you can only run one app at a time. I can use the desktop version of Skype with Visual Studio, Photoshop, Word, and WoW all in windowed mode and be able to see everything AT ONCE.

I never said Windows 8 Blue was Windows 9, just the fact that Windows 9 will build off the changes coming in Blue. Just like Windows 7 was built off Vista, and Vista off Server 2003, blah, blah, blah...

And your last issue is being address in Windows 8 Blue. It appears users will be able to more efficiently multitask with Metro apps.

[seta-san]

I never said Windows 8 Blue was Windows 9, just the fact that Windows 9 will build off the changes coming in Blue. Just like Windows 7 was built off Vista, and Vista off Server 2003, blah, blah, blah...

And your last issue is being address in Windows 8 Blue. It appears users will be able to more efficiently multitask with Metro apps.

sounds like Blue is going to be a make-it or break-it for the start screen. if they can't polish this turd and find a diamond in the stink then they should go back to the start menu, at least for desktops, until they find something better

[xWhiplash]

No, but you just did now. ("Does Microsoft have complete 100% immunity to do whatever they want without consequence?") suggesting that Microsoft developers work for us, when in fact they do not. They have plans on where to carry the OS forward. And despite the bitter few who will kick and scream, they'll do that regardless. Microsoft unifying their services has already spawned a competitor: Canonical, who is unifying their devices with Unity. Even Apple laughs now, but I bet you they're looking into this as well.

Completely irrational thinking. The majority of their userbase just switched over to Windows 7. Not many are going to make the hop again so quickly, especially businesses. They'll wait for Windows 9 or their next hardware refresh before upgrading, same with consumers who will upgrade when they purchase a new machine or tablet.

Also, quit yelling.

This is where you appear to be two. Again, quit yelling. This nonsensical rambling doesn't help your cause. The consequences of changing course, and removing the Start Menu are not as catastrophic as you make them out to be, as users will adapt as they have before in the past.

No, they will adapt and move on, not revert. Again, the changes coming in Windows 8 Blue are a clear indication of that. Users wanted XYZ features in the Start Screen, Microsoft listened to them, and now users are getting the features they wanted. Windows 9 will then build off of the changes in Windows 8 Blue, and so forth. Just as it's always been.

The Start Screen is more than just a screen of tiles, it's its own operating environment, complete with a store and a better codebase for development.

You honestly expect me to not get irritated when you say I am two years old? Wow you must never have had heated discussions in your life then. Lots of people yell, and guess what, THEY ARE NOT TWO. So please, stop with that sort of attitude. I am not two. But I will not just sit here and let you call me that.

How is that irrational thinking? MS provides a product. How do they get money? People buying their product. If they irritate enough of the Windows user base with their decisions, they would need to change what they are doing. That is a fact. MS does not buy their own products, we buy them.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

your last issue is being address in Windows 8 Blue. It appears users will be able to more efficiently multitask with Metro apps.

As Peter Bright put it:

The snapped side-by-side view has become a whole lot more flexible. Who knows, perhaps by Windows 9 we'll be able to have arbitrarily sized overlapping apps.

[seta-san]

You honestly expect me to not get irritated when you say I am two years old?

How is that irrational thinking? MS provides a product. How do they get money? People buying their product. If they irritate enough of the Windows user base with their decisions, they would need to change what they are doing. That is a fact. MS does not buy their own products, we buy them.

he seems to be under the delusion that this is all artistic choice of a private individual, like it's someone choosing to paint their house an obscene color. Sure it's an eye sore but it's their eye sore and they have to deal with it.

but Microsoft isn't a private individual. It's a corporation, ran by 10s of thousands of people and has publically shared stock and a board that people have to answer for. That board has to make decision that are in the best interest of the share holders. If this start screen isn't profitable and thus not in the best interest of the shareholders then they have to change or they could be liable under the law to those share holders.

[xWhiplash]

he seems to be under the delusion that this is all artistic choice of a private individual, like it's someone choosing to paint their house an obscene color. Sure it's an eye sore but it's their eye sore and they have to deal with it.

but Microsoft isn't a private individual. It's a corporation, ran by 10s of thousands of people and has publically shared stock and a board that people have to answer for. That board has to make decision that are in the best interest of the share holders. If this start screen isn't profitable and thus not in the best interest of the shareholders then they have to change or they could be liable under the law to those share holders.

Yeah that is exactly what I was saying. They are not immune to the consequences of their decisions. Yet he just called me a two year old?!

[seta-san]

Yeah that is exactly what I was saying. They are not immune to the consequences of their decisions. Yet he just called me a two year old?!

he's just a start screen fanboy. to be honest i'd like to try the start screen on a tablet. I might have a different opinion of it in that environment. but it doesn't fit in anyway on a desktop.

[Dot Matrix]

sounds like Blue is going to be a make-it or break-it for the start screen. if they can't polish this turd and find a diamond in the stink then they should go back to the start menu, at least for desktops, until they find something better

The Start Menu is never coming back. Not once has a tech company pulled back deprecated features because another didn't work out. If and when Microsoft decides to move on from Metro, you'll find something else in its spot, not the Start Menu. By that point our hardware will have radically changed, which would make the Start Menu practically, and functionally obsolete.

he seems to be under the delusion that this is all artistic choice of a private individual, like it's someone choosing to paint their house an obscene color. Sure it's an eye sore but it's their eye sore and they have to deal with it.

but Microsoft isn't a private individual. It's a corporation, ran by 10s of thousands of people and has publically shared stock and a board that people have to answer for. That board has to make decision that are in the best interest of the share holders. If this start screen isn't profitable and thus not in the best interest of the shareholders then they have to change or they could be liable under the law to those share holders.

And what do you think the shareholders would have done in the face of another "Windows 7 tablet"-like failure? What do you think the shareholders would have done if Microsoft missed, yet again, another breakaway technology boom? Microsoft is doing more here to please sharholders than they were by shoehorning that damn desktop onto ill fitted hardware. Microsoft is doing more to please shareholders by developing and releasing their own Surface hardware, then by doing nothing at all. They're doing more to please shareholders by unifying their services.

So, develop the same bland, featureless desktop developers are largely abandoning, or break out of the box and do something new? You decide.

[xWhiplash]

The Start Menu is never coming back. Not once has a tech company pulled back deprecated features because another didn't work out. If and when Microsoft decides to move on from Metro, you'll find something else in its spot, not the Start Menu. By that point our hardware will have radically changed, which would make the Start Menu practically, and functionally obsolete.

And what do you think the shareholders would have done in the face of another "Windows 7 tablet"-like failure? What do you think the shareholders would have done if Microsoft missed, yet again, another breakaway technology boom? Microsoft is doing more here to please sharholders than they were by shoehorning that damn desktop onto ill fitted hardware. Microsoft is doing more to please shareholders by developing and releasing their own Surface hardware, then by doing nothing at all. They're doing more to please shareholders by unifying their services.

So, develop the same bland, featureless desktop developers are largely abandoning, or break out of the box and do something new? You decide.

How are developers abandoning the desktop environment? I still see new programs released that are desktop only even to this day.

[seta-san]

The Start Menu is never coming back. Not once has a tech company pulled back deprecated features because another didn't work out. If and when Microsoft decides to move on from Metro, you'll find something else in its spot, not the Start Menu. By that point our hardware will have radically changed, which would make the Start Menu practically, and functionally obsolete.

And what do you think the shareholders would have done in the face of another "Windows 7 tablet"-like failure? What do you think the shareholders would have done if Microsoft missed, yet again, another breakaway technology boom? Microsoft is doing more here to please sharholders than they were by shoehorning that damn desktop onto ill fitted hardware. Microsoft is doing more to please shareholders by developing and releasing their own Surface hardware, then by doing nothing at all. They're doing more to please shareholders by unifying their services.

So, develop the same bland, featureless desktop developers are largely abandoning, or break out of the box and do something new? You decide.

if the start menu is so deprecated then why is some variant of it still being used on both Mac and every major X-11 desktop environment? the problem here is that Microsoft is putting "break out" mobile features on a NON-MOBILE ENVIRONMENT.

even Ubuntu has figured out that the two environments demand different interfaces.

http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android

I'm sure metro is great on a phone or a tablet. I've never tried it but i'm sure on a real mobile touch environment it's great... but on a desktop.. it's ****.

also what makes you think hardware is going to be radically different? pulling away the fanciness of new machines... they are still basically the same as the original IBM PC. Sure they're faster, and no longer beige and handle huge resolutions with color.. but essentially they are same and we mostly interact the same as we always have with them.

How are developers abandoning the desktop environment? I still see new programs released that are desktop only even to this day.

they aren't. and from what I've heard Microsoft has had to pay them to make metro apps.

[SiCKX]

That's techy people, people here on Neowin don't represent the whole population, only a small fraction

Yeah, it's even worse on non-techy people that barely know how to use the regular Start Menu. Everything is gone for them... Nice shooting yourself in the foot there.

[Dot Matrix]

they aren't. and from what I've heard Microsoft has had to pay them to make metro apps.

Then where are all the breakaway apps for Windows 7? (Hint: There are none)

Developers have largely left Windows for Android and iOS. Microsoft had to do something to get them back, and the desktop wasn't doing it. Users were pushing for devices that the desktop doesn't work with.

[seta-san]

the worst part of all this is that few people haven't realized that the start screen isn't a replacement for the start menu... It's a replacement for the desktop itself.