Xbox One: Microsoft, publishers 'to profit from used game sales' R

[Atomic Wanderer Chicken]

It would be enormously ironic if the Wii U rose up after the Xbox One and Playstation 4 were announced. This might be very possible if the Playstation 4 also is going in the restrictive used games direction. Id like to see the Wii U succeed, its a really cool idea of the touchscreen display controller.

[MindTrickz]

Games are software. You can't just go about lending your copy of Windows to another person without them paying an activation fee for it. Nor can you do that for most paid software. Why should games be different? It's software, running code that software developers created.

EU courts already ruled on this matter. You can resell/transfer your digital software license. There is really no discussion about it. And yes, you can give sell your copy of Windows to your friend.

[ctrl_alt_delete]

Basically, its new games and not used ones. I dont even like or own or want to own an xbox, but this is very concerning if this is a new trend in the gaming industry. The days of owning and selling games maybe over if this is a trend.

Why don't you go talk to steam about that trend? Are you also says this on the steam forums too?

[theyarecomingforyou]

You cannot compare Steam to console. Console games are 60$ brand new and often stay this price for a long period of time. Here you can rarely buy a new, not used, popular console game for less than 50$ even months after the relase date.

It's not rare to find popular Steam games at 30$ and under and this not so long after the launch of the games.

That's the price you pay for consoles games, as they have to subsidise the price of the console. Things would be very different if consoles weren't sold at a loss.

[+primortal Subscriber²]

I guess a lot people are angry about this and I can understand why. But you have to look at it from developers point of view they don't make money on the resale of the product and it can lead to lower sales overall. Games are extremely expensive to make.

So why aren't car manufactures getting money when cars are resold? Publishers/authors on books? DVD/Bluray? I can go on with other things being sold that the manufacture/owner/distributer never gets money on the resale. Why are game/software developers so special?

They sold the product and got their commission on the sale. If they want to continue reaping money for the game then setup a subscription model for games. Pay a low upfront cost of $20 and you can play for lets say two months. Each additional month you will be ding another $10; chargeable when you play for the first time on the next monthly cycle or you can purchase the came at retail.

[kaotic]

It would be enormously ironic if the Wii U rose up after the Xbox One and Playstation 4 were announced. This might be very possible if the Playstation 4 also is going in the restrictive used games direction. Id like to see the Wii U succeed, its a really cool idea of the touchscreen display controller.

Most likely, all three companies will end up going the same direction if they want games made for their console. If this is true, developers and publishers are going to tell Sony and Nintendo that they want money for used games too.

[Atomic Wanderer Chicken]

Well, if the PS4 goes down the same road as the xbox one, the Wii u might be the unforeseen winner of the two consoles :laugh:. The Wii U at least has freedom of reselling and it has an interesting controller that the xbox and ps dont have. The restricted reselling of games may be the reasons some game companies are not fond of the wii u.

[+Eternal Tempest MVC]

Exactly. People keep saying that Microsoft is doing the wrong things and that this will hurt the gaming market. This is going to HELP the gaming market because the publishers and developers will be getting paid. I'm all for it if it means developers getting money for their work.

They get paid when they make a quality product consumer want to purchase. When they became mega studios with high game budgets and advertising, use psychological tricks to keep you playing (see http://www.penny-arc...the-skinner-box), their influence to try and force thing on gamers that have no choice, they deserve any money loss. Games (in general) are less orginal, more carbon copy, and overpriced, completed too quicker.

The argument about inflation on game price is flawed. Gaming industry has to compete to other forms of media has to compete with other forms of media or distractions.

Most likely, all three companies will end up going the same direction if they want games made for their console. If this is true, developers and publishers are going to tell Sony and Nintendo that they want money for used games too.

Unless Nintendo and Sony band together and fight against publishers demands. Will see when sony decides to reveal it's card.

Nintendo, this generation has not done this.

[MindTrickz]

I guess a lot people are angry about this and I can understand why. But you have to look at it from manfucaturers point of view they don't make money on the resale of the used cars and it can lead to lower sales overall. Cars are extremely expensive to make. If they get cut of the used cars it helps them stay in business.

I've replaced every instance of "games" and "developers" in your post with "cars" and "manfucaturers". See how ridiclous your argument looks.

[George P Global Moderator]

Wait, how is the Xbox One not the same as Steam from the way it sounds? The games are tied to your account on the X1 as well, like Steam. You can login with your account on any X1, like it's a PC, like Steam. You can then red/l, install, the game you already own on your account on that different X1, like a PC, like Steam. Sure that X1 game can only be played on a X1, but lots of Steam games for Windows can only be played on Windows PCs.

The concept and ideas at the core of the two sound exactly the same to me. You say the difference is in the price, well, didn't Gamestop make something like $1 billion from used games sales or something? If a chunk of that goes back to the game makers wouldn't that then mean they can lower the price of their games quicker? Maybe not from the start but at least faster now.

[LaP]

That's the price you pay for consoles games, as they have to subsidise the price of the console. Things would be very different if consoles weren't sold at a loss.

That was not my point. I perfectly know how the console market works.

My point was you cannot compare the effect of preventing people from selling their games when they can buy a new game for 30$ some months after the launch to preventing people from selling their games when they need to pay 50-60$ to buy the same game some months after the launch.

The used games market on console is such a popular market because the games don't go down in price. If the brand new games would go down in price the used games market would be far less popular. There's almost no point seeling a used game if the brand new one is sold at 20$.

I paid 5$ on Steam for Torchlight. Paid 10$ for Deus Ex HR. I don't care if i can't resell them.

[George P Global Moderator]

The whole used car argument is also bogus guys, let's be serious here. Car makers make money from that car they sold you in other ways till you give it up. Service costs? Parts costs? Have any of you needed to fix something in their car at a shop? You never wonder why things that seem small and cheap cost so damn much to buy and replace? If you want to make a connection between cars and games then car makers are selling you a long list of patches for you car till you buy a new one.

Now what if you had to pay for updates for your games as well? uh huh.

[ctrl_alt_delete]

Well, if the PS4 goes down the same road as the xbox one, the Wii u might be the unforeseen winner of the two consoles :laugh:. The Wii U at least has freedom of reselling and it has an interesting controller that the xbox and ps dont have.

If you really honestly believe this statement you made I have little to say to you. As if the only reason people buy consoles and games is so they can sell it back. I have almost 20 something xbox games, I've lent a lot of them out and forgot who the hell I lent them to. I'd this system helps me keep track of that then it's all good to me. If this system also gives me a very good way of reselling my games without being shafted by places like gamestop who wants to give me dirt money for my games then I'm all sold too. I don't care of Microsoft and publishers get a cut as long as I don't get back dirt money for my games if I want to sell or trade them in.

I believe a lot of people are jumping the gun and spreading FUD because they just don't know the full details so they put their tinfoil hat on and go crazy.

I've seen it happen already with the always online rumor. Once this gets debunked too they'll just move on to something else to complain and spread FUD about.

And about the controller thing: Microsoft has smartglass which turns any Windows phone, windows, android, ios device into a controller....so I think the only one that doesn't have an additional controller is Sony.

I personally think the smartglass experience is quite interesting and I'm looking forward to see if they open it up to developers and what they plan on doing with the service/app

[Blackhearted]

Developers and publishers are a business if you make games for one console that blocks used games you force the consumer to purchase that consoles. I'm buying that console, my friends are, my family is, lots of people are, you have a market already, and they will save money not lose it, and you aren't a psychic the Xbox one is going to sell very good because gamers don't make up the world, people watch tv, movies, they are marketing this as an all in one device, you may be already set on a ps4 but there are people already set on an Xbox one it won't be crappy it will be good, and the force will come, and ps4 will do the same, not now, but later they will, and the backlash will be on them. Say what you will, but having a device that can do this much, families will get it because its convenient, and people like convenience.

You're right, i'm not a pyschic, but it doesn't take one to know this kind of thing wont go down well with people and will cut potential sales SIGNIFICANTLY. You remember the reason why publishers are very reluctant to develop for the wii u right? That could be the same thing here.

Also, game consoles are primarily for games. It makes no sense to buy a (likely) $500 box for media streaming and blu-ray when you could get a box that does the very same thing for alot less.

I guess a lot people are angry about this and I can understand why. But you have to look at it from developers point of view they don't make money on the resale of the product and it can lead to lower sales overall. Games are extremely expensive to make. If they get cut of the resold product it helps them stay in business.

Don't tell me you actually beleive the crap that publishers feed you when they try to say they'll whither up and die if used games sales aren't killed off. Used sales haven't killed the other entertainment industries(and movies can easily cost alot more than pretty much all games), and it wont kill the game industry either.

Also, why should they get paid repeatedly for the same copy of a game no matter how many times it changes hands? Really, why? That kind of thing doesn't happen pretty much anywhere else i can think of. So why do game publishers think they're special and deserve special treatment that noone else anywhere else gets?

[+primortal Subscriber²]

The whole used car argument is also bogus guys, let's be serious here. Car makers make money from that car they sold you in other ways till you give it up. Service costs? Parts costs? Have any of you needed to fix something in their car at a shop? You never wonder why things that seem small and cheap cost so damn much to buy and replace? If you want to make a connection between cars and games then car makers are selling you a long list of patches for you car till you buy a new one.

Now what if you had to pay for updates for your games as well? uh huh.

What are you talking about my mechanic doesn't send a check to Toyota for all the repairs on my car or parts (non genuine Toyota parts) used in the repair. If go to a dealership that is whole different story. The money you spend at a dealership for repairs goes to the up keep of the property, employees and dealer licenses. No way related to paying the car manufacture directly for the use of the car.

[theyarecomingforyou]

That was not my point. I perfectly know how the console market works.

My point was you cannot compare the effect of preventing people from selling their games when they can buy a new game for 30$ some months after the launch to preventing people from selling their games when they need to pay 50-60$ to buy the same game some months after the launch.

The used games market on console is such a popular market because the games don't go down in price. If the brand new games would go down in price the used games market would be far less popular. There's almost no point seeling a used game if the brand new one is sold at 20$.

And it will be publishers that lose out if they fail to adjust their prices. Restricting second-hand sales only really works when you add value to the experience and offer discounts. Steam has been a success because of the frequent sales and Microsoft / publishers would be wise to follow that model. Microsoft didn't decide to do this on a whim - it was obviously a result of pressure from publishers.

[Atomic Wanderer Chicken]

If you really honestly believe this statement you made I have little to say to you. As if the only reason people buy consoles and games is so they can sell it back. I have almost 20 something xbox games, I've lent a lot of them out and forgot who the hell I lent them to. I'd this system helps me keep track of that then it's all good to me. If this system also gives me a very good way of reselling my games without being shafted by places like gamestop who wants to give me dirt money for my games then I'm all sold too. I don't care of Microsoft and publishers get a cut as long as I don't get back dirt money for my games if I want to sell or trade them in.

I believe a lot of people are jumping the gun and spreading FUD because they just don't know the full details so they put their tinfoil hat on and go crazy.

I've seen it happen already with the always online rumor. Once this gets debunked too they'll just move on to something else to complain and spread FUD about.

And about the controller thing: Microsoft has smartglass which turns any Windows phone, windows, android, ios device into a controller....so I think the only one that doesn't have an additional controller is Sony.

I personally think the smartglass experience is quite interesting and I'm looking forward to see if they open it up to developers and what they plan on doing with the service/app

I dont know what heck FUD means but its probably very likely these rumors about this new totalitarion game market is true. We'll have to see what the PS4 has in store. It will make a point when the Wii U triumphs in all of this. Like I said previously the Xbox One is now evolving from that cute furry thing they showed into the slimy hideous creature.

[soldier1st]

Too many conflicting reports, id just wait til E3 to get the info every news outlet is saying something different, and its driving me up the wall. Speaking of which the friend borrowing thing, if this happens than you dont need a fee

Account 1(You) and Account 2 (Friend)

Account 1 buys Forza 5, you activate it, install it, and you get your license for it, and you play it. Then after a month you take a break, and you give it to Account 2 to try.

Account 2 will get a message saying this game is activate on accounts 1 profile, would you like to activate it on your profile and deactivate on account 1. Account 2 presses yes.

Account 1 can not play the game until he buys a license or reactivates it on his profile.

Account 2 finishes the game, and gives it back to account 1, and account 1 activates it on his profile again, and thats it, account 1 will have his game back activated with no fee paid and account 2 played the game.

I find this possible because if Gamestop can remove your license by scanning surely your friend borrowing it can do the same and then return the license back. That makes more sense. Hopefully anyway. Id just wait till E3. This could turn out completely false or completely true, no one knows yet, and everyone is saying something different.

I hope this single license per account crap is removed. What if two people on 2 accounts wants to play the game at the same time? 1 will have to pay more which is dumb.

[George P Global Moderator]

What are you talking about my mechanic doesn't send a check to Toyota for all the repairs on my car or parts (non genuine Toyota parts) used in the repair. If go to a dealership that is whole different story. The money you spend at a dealership for repairs goes to the up keep of the property, employees and dealer licenses. No way related to paying the car manufacture directly for the use of the car.

So you're paying indirectly then? Unless those dealer licenses don't go back to the car makers? And if you're not using the own makers parts then fine, but if you are then my point stands. Many people go back to the dealer to get service or to fix their car. That money, not all but some, finds it's way back to the car maker.

[soldier1st]

"Those who wish to use a second-hand game outside the system - like borrowing a game from a friend - will be charged a fee of ?35, added the source."

I hope there not serious about the $35 fee. If they are gonna do that then players will go to a different platform.

[TheLegendOfMart]

The whole used car argument is also bogus guys, let's be serious here. Car makers make money from that car they sold you in other ways till you give it up. Service costs? Parts costs? Have any of you needed to fix something in their car at a shop? You never wonder why things that seem small and cheap cost so damn much to buy and replace? If you want to make a connection between cars and games then car makers are selling you a long list of patches for you car till you buy a new one.

Now what if you had to pay for updates for your games as well? uh huh.

Ok lets use your car analogy, developers get money from you in other ways, they charge you for online passes, paid DLC, etc.. they make money on the original sale also.

Why would we have to pay for updates, if Ford put out a car that was defective and required fixing they would recall the car and/or fix it for free.

[George P Global Moderator]

I hope this single license per account crap is removed. What if two people on 2 accounts wants to play the game at the same time? 1 will have to pay more which is dumb.

Play local co-op you mean? Why would you have to pay for that? I don't see anywhere or any rumor that says anything about that subject. If you're thinking about wanting to play the same game on two different systems that aren't linked under the same master account, like a family that has two X1s, then you can't do that right now anyways. If you're living in a house that has two consoles and you and another guy want to play the same game on their own you can't, you only have one disc so it's not possible. BUT with the X1, from the way it sounds though we don't have all the details, if they have family plans in place then any games you own already can be played on the two systems with sub/family accounts so technically because you don't need the disc then two family members could theoretically play the same game on two different X1s at the same time while only pay once for it.

Ok lets use your car analogy, developers get money from you in other ways, they charge you for online passes, paid DLC, etc.. they make money on the original sale also.

Why would we have to pay for updates, if Ford put out a car that was defective and required fixing they would recall the car and/or fix it for free.

If you want to think of paying for service or official manufacture parts to fix your car as paying for updates it makes sense. Or you can think of those as paying for DLC but then again they don't add anything to your car but fix it, like a patch does. It sounds close really.

[TheLegendOfMart]

It doesn't make sense, developers put games out that are broken because publishers want them out at a specific date then fix the bugs afterwards, like I said if Ford did that with a car there would be outrage and it would get recalled.

Developers get a cut of the initial sale, then they make more money out of you by including online passes, DLC such as characters/weapons/levels/missions, sometimes whole expansion packs.

Just like car manufacturers make money from you buying replacement parts.

At the end of the day a game is no different than a movie, book, music cd, etc.. they get their money with the initial sale, if that's not enough to cover their costs then maybe cut back on budgets instead of screwing everyone over by asking for a cut of used sales which happens with no other media or item.

[+primortal Subscriber²]

So you're paying indirectly then? Unless those dealer licenses don't go back to the car makers? And if you're not using the own makers parts then fine, but if you are then my point stands. Many people go back to the dealer to get service or to fix their car. That money, not all but some, finds it's way back to the car maker.

Yes the money finds it way back to the car manufacture. But getting away from the topic at hand, reselling. So in using the car metaphor again when reselling a car; percentage of profits from the resell are not sent to the manufacture as in point of this discussion of used games.

[George P Global Moderator]

Yes the money finds it way back to the car manufacture. But getting away from the topic at hand, reselling. So in using the car metaphor again when reselling a car; percentage of profits from the resell are not sent to the manufacture as in point of this discussion of used games.

True, if you sell it yourself then no, though there are other costs, minor ones iirc, nothing that goes back to the maker.