Church in Madrid says it needs exorcists to help fight demons

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Grand Master

Hum

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THE Catholic archdiocese in Madrid says it needs more exorcists to help some of its faithful cope with the devil.

An archdiocese spokeswoman said on Friday Madrid only has one exorcist priest and that it is considering a plan to train more.

She spoke on condition of anonymity in keeping with archdiocese policy.

"The devil exists. That's a fact," she told The Associated Press.

Only a priest authorised by a bishop can perform an exorcism and the brief rite involves blessings with holy water, prayers and an interrogation of the devil by the exorcist during which the demon is asked to leave the victim.

ReligionenLibertad, a Catholic website, blames the growing secularisation of Spanish society for what it calls an increase in people asking for help with their demons.

Exorcisms hit the headlines earlier this week when Pope Francis's blessing of a disabled man was said to be an exorcism.

The Pope was filmed laying his hands on the head of a young disabled man after celebrating mass in St Peter's Square on Sunday.

The young man heaved deeply a half-dozen times, shook, and he then slumped in his wheelchair as Francis prayed over him.

The Vatican television station, TV 2000, said it had surveyed exorcists, who agreed there was "no doubt" that Francis either performed an exorcism or a prayer to free the man from the devil.

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Grand Master

redfish

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Posted

It doesn't bother me that people choose to believe in a Devil, it just angers me that someone with a mental illness is seeing a priest instead of a doctor!

I'd rather someone with depression or anxiety issues first go talk to a priest or a yogi or whomever as a counselor just for advice about life, rather than first go to a doctor whose just going to pressure him to go on medication.

That's a different issue than exorcism, but you're making a pretty broad statement.

Grand Master

compl3x

Posted
Posted

I'd rather someone with depression or anxiety issues first go talk to a priest or a yogi or whomever as a counselor just for advice about life, rather than first go to a doctor whose just going to pressure him to go on medication.

That's a different issue than exorcism, but you're making a pretty broad statement.

Why would you go see a priest if you suffered anxiety or depression. Unless the priest was a medical doctor or a trained psychologist or psychiatrist I can't see the value. You may as well go and talk to a bartender about your problems.

Grand Master

redfish

Posted
Posted

Why would you go see a priest if you suffered anxiety or depression. Unless the priest was a medical doctor or a trained psychologist or psychiatrist I can't see the value. You may as well go and talk to a bartender about your problems.

Why are many psychologists interested in Buddhism, yoga, and also in Catholic meditation practices? Because depression and anxiety most of the time aren't medical problems, they're emotional problems. They can develop into medical problems if they're extreme, but most people don't need to treat them that way.

For some people talking to a bartender will help too, but bartending isn't a spiritual practice so the quality of advice from a bartender might not be helpful.

Grand Master

compl3x

Posted
Posted

Why are many psychologists interested in Buddhism, yoga, and also in Catholic meditation practices? Because depression and anxiety most of the time aren't medical problems, they're emotional problems. They can develop into medical problems if they're extreme, but most people don't need to treat them that way.

Psychology has adopted things like mindfulness from Buddhism, but that is hardly the same as sitting with a priest whose advice will be no doubt overwhelmingly religious in nature with little basis in psychiatry/psychology. They have no place diagnosing such illnesses.

I think a religious leader would be remiss if they didn't tell a parishioner to seek medical advice about their problem.

For some people talking to a bartender will help too, but bartending isn't a spiritual practice so the quality of advice from a bartender might not be helpful.

Just because you get advice from a spiritual person doesn't mean the advice is helpful. It might be downright unhelpful.

Grand Master

redfish

Posted
Posted

Psychology has adopted things like mindfulness from Buddhism, but that is hardly the same as sitting with a priest whose advice will be no doubt overwhelmingly religious in nature with little basis in psychiatry/psychology. They have no place diagnosing such illnesses.

Right, because Buddhism and Hinduism never inject metaphysical terminology into discussions, and Christianity has no good advice for people on how to live a happier life. Your bias is showing.

Early psychologists like Jung and Freud borrowed a lot from Western religion. Jung in particular. Confession as a practice in Catholic religion is meant to help clear someone's conscience, the purpose is therapeutic. The rosary is a way to focus one's physical stress during contemplative meditation, which is a big part of the religion. Before clinical psychology, people did go to priests for counseling. There's a school of practice in psychology called existential therapy, which focuses ecxlusively on existential and spiritual issues much like religion.

And again, you're referring to illnesses, when in most cases its not a medical problem.

Grand Master

mudslag

Posted
Posted

I'd rather someone with depression or anxiety issues first go talk to a priest or a yogi or whomever as a counselor just for advice about life, rather than first go to a doctor whose just going to pressure him to go on medication.

That's a different issue than exorcism, but you're making a pretty broad statement.

Not only are there doctors who don't push for medication for every issue but mental illness can be a result of chemical imbalances. A none medical professional cant help with that.

Mentor

Yogurtmaster

Posted
Posted

How can they tell the difference between mental disturbed and having a demon?

I am not an expert, but I can think of one way. If the person who factually doesn't know or have learned other languages (including ones that are ancient and no longer practiced) all of a sudden out of no where can speak and/or write in those languages that they might be possessed.

Grand Master

redfish

Posted
Posted

Not only are there doctors who don't push for medication for every issue but mental illness can be a result of chemical imbalances. A none medical professional cant help with that.

Of course, but there are too many doctors who will push for medication even if the patient doesn't need it, and a person can always go to a doctor as a second recourse after other advice doesn't help him.

In most cases, btw, for standard things like depression or anxiety, even if there's a physiological breakdown that a doctor will want to treat to help you get back on the right track, it'll be something that started as an emotional problem and has to be addressed primarily as an emotional problem. So a doctor who does put you on medication will also advise you to do therapy at the same time. Talk therapy has been found to substantially cut the rate of recidivism even in cases in which medication helps.

The rosary actually originated from India, its usages spread to the western land, get adopted & modified by both Islam as 'Tasbih' & catholic as 'Rosary'.

I don't know the history of that, but it doesn't surprise me since Christianity is a very syncretic religion that borrows from a lot of sources.

Grand Master

compl3x

Posted
Posted

Right, because Buddhism and Hinduism never inject metaphysical terminology into discussions, and Christianity has no good advice for people on how to live a happier life. Your bias is showing.

Early psychologists like Jung and Freud borrowed a lot from Western religion. Jung in particular. Confession as a practice in Catholic religion is meant to help clear someone's conscience, the purpose is therapeutic. The rosary is a way to focus one's physical stress during contemplative meditation, which is a big part of the religion. Before clinical psychology, people did go to priests for counseling. There's a school of practice in psychology called existential therapy, which focuses ecxlusively on existential and spiritual issues much like religion.

I was familiar with mindfulness being used in therapy so that I why I mentioned it specifically. I wan't being anti-Christian. All religions can offer good advice for people to live better lives (or miserable, guilt ridden ones), but so can self-help books.

If you want to talk about bias, how about your obvious bias against conventional treatments which are very effective in helping people manage their disorders? I agree there probably is an issue with over medicating people, but you don't abandon a perfectly good form of treatment because it is sometimes misused.

I'm not suggesting an existing religious practise mightn't compliment those things, but I wouldn't advocate shunning conventional treatments for "spiritual" ones. And I am certainly opposed to offering people exorcisms for the mentally ill. That's just ****in' crazy.

And again, you're referring to illnesses, when in most cases its not a medical problem.

What aren't medical problems? Depression and anxiety? How have you arrived at that?

Grand Master

redfish

Posted
Posted

I'm not suggesting an existing religious practise mightn't compliment those things, but I wouldn't advocate shunning conventional treatments for "spiritual" ones. And I am certainly opposed to offering people exorcisms for the mentally ill. That's just ****in' crazy.

I'm not advocating shunning conventional treatments, if you need them... I'm saying most people aren't going to need them, and medication can do harm just as easily as it can help, moreso than religion can make people miserable and guilt-ridden.

What aren't medical problems? Depression and anxiety? How have you arrived at that?

Not most of the time. When a physiological element doesn't need to be treated for you to recover, its not best understood as a medical problem. In psychiatry, there are more specific terms "depressive disorder" and "anxiety disorder" which don't refer to simple anxiety and depression, because anxiety and depression aren't really considered medical problems, but the lines between emotional problems and medical "disorders" are blurred, especially by bad doctors.

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