+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 21, 2013 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 21, 2013 Letting every indie POS on the planet use XBL achievements.. yeah great idea. here's 25 free achievements for starting my game :rolleyes: How is this any different than retail games? There's also that current 360 digital game that you can unlock 1000G in in like what, 5 minutes? Some anime game I believe. I'm pretty sure The Simpsons game actually has the 25G achievement for pressing the start button on the title screen. This and the "but we'll get lots of crap games" arguments are what I've already said to be hilarious. It's absolutely no different right now, the retail market is full of ****, and current games have ridiculously easy achievements as well. But oh no we need to protect the gamer who simply cannot spend his hard earned money on good games, what a poor fellow to be parted of his cash for throwing it at titles he hasn't even read about... I've been gaming for 15 years or more and I can probably count the amount of genuinely regretted purchases on one hand. Some of you guys are acting like gamers are going to go bankrupt because of "fart generator" games, because we sure hear that happen all the time from the App Store/Play Store :rolleyes: At this point I think all Audio and TheLegend do is make posts on how XB1 is not PS4 or how Microsoft is not Sony. Seriously, what's the point of this? Audio is so concerned about Xbox that he made this same exact post on two different forums. Good thing that other community can actually discuss things/allow topics without the pitchforks like Neowin, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Yes, how dare we correct your, Boxy and Nashy BS FUD posts with corrections and facts. Are you seriously calling the people that defend MS from FUD and false accusations trolls. as opposed to the 2(3) people who keep posting only the negative MS news, most of which are in the lies, false and FUD category... based on that alone your rights to post int he MS section of these forums should be taken away tbh. :rolleyes: Just read through the thread up to this post and not a single person has posted a fact on how this entire indie thing will work to back up one side or the other. So yeah, you can't exactly claim you've responded with facts when no one has at this point in the thread. People on both sides of the fence keep talking like they have a direct hand in the xbox ones development and it's policies. And that is a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 How is this any different than retail games? There's also that current 360 digital game that you can unlock 1000G in in like what, 5 minutes? Some anime game I believe. I'm pretty sure The Simpsons game actually has the 25G achievement for pressing the start button on the title screen. The budget on retail games kind of takes care of this quite nicely in comparison. and at least those you "generally" have to pay for as opposed to having 20 free games giving you 1000G for starting the game. But I know you purposely ignored and twisted the point, so that's ok. Just read through the thread up to this post and not a single person has posted a fact on how this entire indie thing will work to back up one side or the other. So yeah, you can't exactly claim you've responded with facts when no one has at this point in the thread. People on both sides of the fence keep talking like they have a direct hand in the xbox ones development and it's policies. And that is a fact. His comment went somewhat wider than this single thread in case you missed it. and you would see the point if you checked the threads he's started. but that's beside the point anyway. the point here was he started what's basically a troll bait thread and then complains when someone dares argue his point and not let him post made up anti MS FUD freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 21, 2013 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 21, 2013 The budget on retail games kind of takes care of this quite nicely in comparison. and at least those you "generally" have to pay for as opposed to having 20 free games giving you 1000G for starting the game. But I know you purposely ignored and twisted the point, so that's ok. So you now believe we're going to have a ton of free games? Even if you can somehow backup that belief, your point? Upset that people will have more achievement points than you? If so, grow up. Just like mobile PSN games do not have trophies, and digital titles do not usually get allowed a platinum, completely free games will most likely have a smaller proportion of achievement points assigned, if any at all. HawkMan how can an article like this be made up? It really should be a bannable offense to keep posting the word "FUD" in the GH unless there's any proof at all something is completely made up. Getting sick of you saying it in every single topic you disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showan Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 This is honestly PS4 fans this gen. Get a feature and don't know how to act. Something that the competitor has had forever. Competitor shows off something new and fancy. And all you hear is "Well, we can do that to if we wanted to." Carve your own path. Thief000 and BajiRav 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 So you now believe we're going to have a ton of free games? Even if you can somehow backup that belief, your point? Upset that people will have more achievement points than you? If so, grow up. Just like mobile PSN games do not have trophies, and digital titles do not usually get allowed a platinum, completely free games will most likely have a smaller proportion of achievement points assigned, if any at all. HawkMan how can an article like this be made up? It really should be a bannable offense to keep posting the word "FUD" in the GH unless there's any proof at all something is completely made up. Getting sick of you saying it in every single topic you disagree with. Since when does FUD mean made up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 This is honestly PS4 fans this gen. Get a feature and don't know how to act. Something that the competitor has had forever. Competitor shows off something new and fancy. And all you hear is "Well, we can do that to if we wanted to." Carve your own path. Xbox has had the ability to self publish games since forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLH Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Indie developers should be the most understanding of the developers world. Out of anyone, they know how much time and resource it takes to make a game from all aspects, including business. So they should understand that Microsoft are taking time to announce information regarding developing for the X1. It takes time to work out an ecosystem on a new platform, so when MS say they're announcing something soon regarding it, Indie developers should understand their situation and be keen into understanding what that platform will help them to achieve. Especially with the W8, WP8 ideology. They shouldn't be whining like babies. Because one person has a good single understanding of game development and have a good creative vision, doesn't mean they're a good person. Note: It seems they're complaining about the current gen development on the 360 and XBLA but then refer to the team developing a new console? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 If it wasn't for them "whining like babies" Microsoft wouldn't be reconsidering their stance, around the time of E3 multiple mouthpieces were quoted as saying it would the same as how it is on 360, I.E. you'd need a publisher or to sign with Microsoft Game Studios to even get your game on Xbox Live Marketplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showan Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Self Publishing Indies are the "BIG THING NOW"... You spend $400-$500 and that's your main draw???... 1 million turds of Indie games.... Only a handful of good ones.... I hate Minecraft, but I'll admit it's the RARE GEM!! Fez is awesome, as well as Super Meat Boy.. But when I think of spending $400- $500, they aren't the first thing to cross my mind... Self Publishing is the must have thing now? You have fun with your self publishing (which will lead to a GIANT TRASH CAN FULL OF CRAP GAMES) go look at Xbox Live on the 360 now. MS knows its a dump now, and they don't want that happening twic (well at least early in the XB1 life cycle they don't) Its not a matter of self publishing, it's the Indies wanting a "Wild Wild West" Environment ... And you are happy as a pig in crap over Self Publishing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Veteran Posted July 22, 2013 Veteran Share Posted July 22, 2013 I wouldn't exactly call Oddworld Inhabitants an indie company... Their first two games were quite popular on the PS1 and the second two did well on the original Xbox. I believe Munch's Oddysee was even a launch title. Having a game published on disc or cart for a console isn't an indie feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Self Publishing Indies are the "BIG THING NOW"... You spend $400-$500 and that's your main draw???... 1 million turds of Indie games.... Only a handful of good ones.... I hate Minecraft, but I'll admit it's the RARE GEM!! Fez is awesome, as well as Super Meat Boy.. But when I think of spending $400- $500, they aren't the first thing to cross my mind... Self Publishing is the must have thing now? You have fun with your self publishing (which will lead to a GIANT TRASH CAN FULL OF CRAP GAMES) go look at Xbox Live on the 360 now. MS knows its a dump now, and they don't want that happening twic (well at least early in the XB1 life cycle they don't) Its not a matter of self publishing, it's the Indies wanting a "Wild Wild West" Environment ... And you are happy as a pig in crap over Self Publishing... I don't think you understand how it works. It's not like Windows Store or Android Store, people can't just upload a load of crap apps. As it is at the minute Microsoft requires you to have a publisher just to submit the game, this is a big problem for small development teams who are probably working on their first game. How do you get a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft, etc... to take a risk by signing your game. Then you have the issue of giving a lot of your profits away to these publishers just so you can get the game onto the marketplace. Microsoft and Sony will still curate the quality of the games being submitted but it's a lot less complicated to get your game up and you don't give away most of your profits. Yes Indie Developers are a bit thing at the minute, when studios are closing left, right and centre, when big AAA developers and publishers aren't meeting sales expectations, the only place to get fresh new ideas is from an Indie and Indie games have been on the rise for years now. Some picks from 2012: Dust an Elysian Tale, Dear Esther, Minecraft, Pid, Dustforce, Spelunky, Quantum Conudrum, FTL, Super Hexagon, Mark of the Ninja, Fez, Papo & Yo, Sine Mora, Torchlight 2, Journey, Hotline Miami, Dyad, Retro City Rampage, The Unfinished Swan. You can't sit there and tell me these games don't matter, a lot of them have won multiple awards and have sold loads of copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLH Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 If it wasn't for them "whining like babies" Microsoft wouldn't be reconsidering their stance, around the time of E3 multiple mouthpieces were quoted as saying it would the same as how it is on 360, I.E. you'd need a publisher or to sign with Microsoft Game Studios to even get your game on Xbox Live Marketplace. What stance? They've not announced anything. The one person who said "cant self publish" was took out of context. The official word is "more to come later". You again glisten over my whole post and reply based on one phrase I said which you can extract a point out of to try and make me look bad. Simple point is, they're retards for slating a company which'll provide most of their revenue in years to come because they haven't announced the app ecosystem plans. Very silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 What stance? They've not announced anything. The one person who said "cant self publish" was took out of context. The official word is "more to come later". You again glisten over my whole post and reply based on one phrase I said which you can extract a point out of to try and make me look bad. Simple point is, they're retards for slating a company which'll provide most of their revenue in years to come because they haven't announced the app ecosystem plans. Very silly. The solo and small-team game-makers who?ve made games like Fez, Braid and Limbo won?t be able to control their own destinies on Microsoft?s next game console, according to a Shack Newsreport.The article quotes Matt Booty, who is Microsoft?s general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms, as confirming that indie devs will still need publishers to get their games onto the newly revealed console. Booty does say that Microsoft will explore new business models, though. http://kotaku.com/indie-developers-won-t-be-able-to-self-publish-on-xbox-509271999 Microsoft doesn?t allow developers to self-publish their games on the Xbox 360, nor will it be allowed on the Xbox One. There?s been much talk about this limitation, but few really understand what it means, or why that decision not only screws over indies on the Xbox One, but the PlayStation 4 and PC as well. Microsoft, in one very broad stroke, has made it much harder for smaller developers to operate in gaming as a whole. http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/xbox-one-vs.-indies-microsoft-bullies-developers-into-signing-with-publishe Yes, Microsoft exec Don Mattrick has fed Kotaku some platitudes. But with details unspecified and with developers telling me things are status quo, these nice words are, to be charitable, vague. Let's start with how things actually work today. All games published on Xbox Live Arcade -- the system's primary download service -- require a publisher. As those who have been paying attention know, any games which you might think were self-published by their developers -- say Castle Crashers, or Spelunky -- are actually published by Microsoft Studios (as is Minecraft, Mr. Mattrick.) http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/193162/ Their stance was it would be the same as it already has been.............. until the "cry babies" cried about it, then all of a sudden they are rethinking their policies. Surely that's not something Microsoft does.........oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blerk Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I don't think you understand how it works. It's not like Windows Store or Android Store, people can't just upload a load of crap apps. As it is at the minute Microsoft requires you to have a publisher just to submit the game, this is a big problem for small development teams who are probably working on their first game. How do you get a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft, etc... to take a risk by signing your game. Then you have the issue of giving a lot of your profits away to these publishers just so you can get the game onto the marketplace. Microsoft and Sony will still curate the quality of the games being submitted but it's a lot less complicated to get your game up and you don't give away most of your profits. Question by someone who doesn't really understand the fuss about policies yet to be announced: Why can't Microsoft be the publisher? They have Microsoft Studios so why can't they branch out and have Microsoft Indie Studios as a division that deals with smaller productions much like Fox Searchlight is the indie arm of 20th Century Fox? They could even have two levels of indie publisher - the app store type where anyone can have a chance to attain fame and fortune and a level where MS's Indie Studio division selects indie games it thinks will do well, promotes & hypes it up to an extent and takes a slightly larger cut of the profits than the simple app store. Then they could reserve the "real" Microsoft Studios for AAA games and indie games that have made it to AAA level - and give these games global marketing on a large scale, etc - do the stuff that big publishers already do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Question by someone who doesn't really understand the fuss about policies yet to be announced: Why can't Microsoft be the publisher? They have Microsoft Studios so why can't they branch out and have Microsoft Indie Studios as a division that deals with smaller productions much like Fox Searchlight is the indie arm of 20th Century Fox? They could even have two levels of indie publisher - the app store type where anyone can have a chance to attain fame and fortune and a level where MS's Indie Studio division selects indie games it thinks will do well, promotes & hypes it up to an extent and takes a slightly larger cut of the profits than the simple app store. Then they could reserve the "real" Microsoft Studios for AAA games and indie games that have made it to AAA level - and give these games global marketing on a large scale, etc - do the stuff that big publishers already do. Currently if you sign with Microsoft they either want exclusivity or timed exclusivity which means losing additional revenue streams from other platforms, this is a big deal for small teams of 2 or 3 people who have probably sold everything they have and used credit to finance themselves during development. There is no need to have a middle man for small teams, you submit your game to the platform holder, they say yes or no, the game goes up, the platform holder gets a cut and the developer gets a cut. Why does it need to be more difficult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLH Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 http://kotaku.com/indie-developers-won-t-be-able-to-self-publish-on-xbox-509271999 http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/xbox-one-vs.-indies-microsoft-bullies-developers-into-signing-with-publishe http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/193162/ Their stance was it would be the same as it already has been.............. until the "cry babies" cried about it, then all of a sudden they are rethinking their policies. Surely that's not something Microsoft does.........oh wait. XBLA..... You've been able to self-publish on the 360 since 2010. We're on about 2 completely different platforms. XBLA carries the Xbox tag on games, Indie does not. Indie will still exist, just how, is yet to be announced. To put it clearer for you, the apps/games which'll run on the Windows HyperVM rather than the XBLA games which carry the Xbox brand and run on the Xbox HyperVM. Any better for you? Or are you still in denial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 XBLA..... You've been able to self-publish on the 360 since 2010. There's no reason to need a freaking publisher to go on XBLA, this is what indie devs are "crying" about. The only reason Microsoft wants indies to sign up to publisher is so they sign away exclusivity, they still get a cut whether the game has a publisher or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 22, 2013 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 22, 2013 "One of the biggest challenges with Microsoft was the frequency of updates because the QA process and certification process takes an extremely long time. Totally unacceptable for a meaningful free-to-play." - Wargaming CEO Victor Kislyi talks World of Tanks on Xbox 360. Kislyi explained to Polygon that he's been in talks with Microsoft to streamline the company's certification process, because as-of-now he says that the QA and certification process on Xbox 360 is far too long, especially for free-to-play games. "The good thing is with online games, sometimes if you screw up, you can do frequent updates," he noted. Whether Microsoft will actually listen is a different matter, however. "We are working with them to do quicker updates," he said. "We will see, there is a lot of work on the technical side and on the administrative side which should resolve in the acceptable quality of the product, including updates of the product including speed and rates. So we will see." Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/196710/Xbox_certification_unacceptable_for_freetoplay_says_World_of_Tanks_dev.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLH Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 There's no reason to need a freaking publisher to go on XBLA, this is what indie devs are "crying" about. The only reason Microsoft wants indies to sign up to publisher is so they sign away exclusivity, they still get a cut whether the game has a publisher or not. So games which you can buy codes for in retail stores, online retailers and markets don't need a publisher? Are you people serious? What am I missing here? Also check my edited post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Whatever, you can see no wrong with Microsoft, what a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLH Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Whatever, you can see no wrong with Microsoft, what a surprise. Really? Cause I pretty sure hate their PR and public attitude. Don Mattrick's public approach was ridiculous and they couldn't of messed up a new console launch more if they tried. I work daily with a lot of MS products, trust me there's a lot about them I can't stand. On the other hand, you're trying to bring up anything to make them look bad. At the end of the day, this developer has shot themselves in the foot. Do you honestly think MS will even consider them now to launch on the X1 with this public announcement? Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/196710/Xbox_certification_unacceptable_for_freetoplay_says_World_of_Tanks_dev.php They QA updates due to the Xbox brand being stamped on the top. The guy is right, it isn't feasible for the free-to-play model but it wasn't set up with that in mind. They know this and MS know this. They said recently they was dropping this in preparation to shift to the X1. As said, am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenser.d Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Whatever, you can see no wrong with Microsoft, what a surprise. I like the distinction. Going through the process to get branded makes it more likely for me to consider a game because I know it's had solid quality control before release. ahhell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 22, 2013 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 22, 2013 I like the distinction. Going through the process to get branded makes it more likely for me to consider a game because I know it's had solid quality control before release. Reviews and gameplay impressions do not do a much better job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLH Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Reviews and gameplay impressions do not do a much better job? There would be none of that if it wasn't branded to get the attention of the media. The whole point of branding and a publisher... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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