TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 There would be none of that if it wasn't branded to get the attention of the media. The whole point of branding and a publisher... Other than magazines, websites, gaming conventions, word of mouth, etc..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLH Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Other than magazines, websites, gaming conventions, word of mouth, etc..? Publishers, publishers and publishers. Other than the unique indie titles which get picked up for being creative (usually after release) there is hardly any anticipation for those titles before launch due to them not being visible and advertised. All of which is done by the publishers.... Do you guys understand business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Getting sick of your tone, where do you think indie devs go to put their games out, pax, e3, gdc, etc.. they don't need publishers for that, then websites and people with word of mouth start talking about them, the internet is a powerful thing when things go viral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLH Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Getting sick of your tone, where do you think indie devs go to put their games out, pax, e3, gdc, etc.. they don't need publishers for that, then websites and people with word of mouth start talking them. The only reason I'm being pretentious is because of the ridiculous statements you're making to obviously make MS look like the anti-Christ. Every company makes bad decisions. Show me a booth at a gaming convention from a real indie developer. Who do you think pays for the booth and the fees to put the game there? Oh, its the publishers. SecretAgentMan 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahhell Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Whatever, you can see no wrong with Microsoft, what a surprise. And you can see no right with Microsoft. :rolleyes: It can go both ways, sport. MS needs to clarify how they will be handling "indie" games. That hasn't happened yet so there isn't really anything to discuss. SecretAgentMan 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 The only reason I'm being pretentious is because of the ridiculous statements you're making to obviously make MS look like the anti-Christ. Every company makes bad decisions. Show me a booth at a gaming convention from a real indie developer. Who do you think pays for the booth and the fees to put the game there? Oh, its the publishers. Many conventions have indie areas set up by the event organisers, not publishers. Indiecade was at E3 and PAX East has Indie Megabooth, neither of which require publishers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLH Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Many conventions have indie areas set up by the event organisers, not publishers. Indiecade was at E3 and PAX East has Indie Megabooth, neither of which require publishers. My point exactly, you're pretty much ****ing in the wind without a publisher. There's just no money to give you the visibility you need. Yet some Indie developers think they're gods gift and think because they had creative vision with a new title they should be given everything for free. Prime example, Fez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 You accuse me of ignoring the gist of your post and you go and do it to me? All the indie booths are set up by the event organisers you don't have to sign away your profits, you don't need a publisher to get your game out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Good thing that other community can actually discuss things/allow topics without the pitchforks like Neowin, eh? Oh are you surprised? They are mostly a PS4/Cerny circle jerk for a good while now. The reason I read it is slowly eroding now. I haven't seen good posts from any game devs or other industry folks because their posts are drowned in the noise. You accuse me of ignoring the gist of your post and you go and do it to me? All the indie booths are set up by the event organisers you don't have to sign away your profits, you don't need a publisher to get your game out there. You don't need one on XLIG either and we don't know what they are doing with XB1 yet. What's your point? SecretAgentMan 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Oh are you surprised? They are mostly a PS4/Cerny circle jerk for a good while now. The reason I read it is slowly eroding now. I haven't seen good posts from any game devs or other industry folks because their posts are drowned in the noise. Funny because its drowned out by you, Johnny, Hawkman, vcfan, etc.. you guys have reported me enough just because you don't like me posting negative things that I am being restricted from posting here shortly. I will continue to post on Neogaf which has far stricter rules than here yet I seem to get on fine with all the posters there, it's just the pro Microsoft circlejerk that ruins this forum. If it weren't for people like Audioboxer this place would be dead again like it was in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLH Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 You accuse me of ignoring the gist of your post and you go and do it to me? All the indie booths are set up by the event organisers you don't have to sign away your profits, you don't need a publisher to get your game out there. Why did I? You explained my point. A small indie booth doesn't give you visibility. Money backing publishers do. There's only so much the internet can do. Funny because its drowned out by you, Johnny, Hawkman, vcfan, etc.. you guys have reported me enough just because you don't like me posting negative things that I am being restricted from posting here shortly. I will continue to post on Neogaf which has far stricter rules than here yet I seem to get on fine with all the posters there, it's just the pro Microsoft circlejerk that ruins this forum. If it weren't for people like Audioboxer this place would be dead again like it was in the past. I never reported you once, I actually agree with a lot what you say on the first page regarding the definition between Indie and professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Why did I? You explained my point. A small indie booth doesn't give you visibility. Money backing publishers do. There's only so much the internet can do. I never reported you one, I actually agree with a lot what you say on the first page regarding the definition between Indie and professional. Right so publishers like to take a risk on developers first games that have no word of mouth, no buzz surrounding it? The buzz comes from indie games winning awards at these gaming conventions which get them noticed, then the snowball starts rolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLH Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Right so publishers like to take a risk on developers first games that have no word of mouth, no buzz surrounding it? The buzz comes from indie games winning awards at these gaming conventions which get them noticed, then the snowball starts rolling. That's a fair point. Has there been any games which have come to light from these parts of conventions? Just interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Funny because its drowned out by you, Johnny, Hawkman, vcfan, etc.. you guys have reported me enough just because you don't like me posting negative things that I am being restricted from posting here shortly. I will continue to post on Neogaf which has far stricter rules than here yet I seem to get on fine with all the posters there, it's just the pro Microsoft circlejerk that ruins this forum. If it weren't for people like Audioboxer this place would be dead again like it was in the past. I don't like to defend this point but I don't think I've reported you even once. Take it whichever way it suits you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenser.d Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Reviews and gameplay impressions do not do a much better job? Only if I get as far as looking at them (and sometimes I do - if a non-branded game sits at the top of a rankings list or something like that), but the easiest thing to spot in the Windows store is if the game is branded or not and I tend not to bother with the ones that aren't branded unless there's something specific I'm looking for. A lot of times I'm just looking for any new game to play without much to go off of, so to limit what I look at, I just don't bother if it doesn't have the XBL brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Some picks from 2012: Dust an Elysian Tale, Dear Esther, Minecraft, Pid, Dustforce, Spelunky, Quantum Conudrum, FTL, Super Hexagon, Mark of the Ninja, Fez, Papo & Yo, Sine Mora, Torchlight 2, Journey, Hotline Miami, Dyad, Retro City Rampage, The Unfinished Swan. A lot of those aren't really "indie" though. and only one of them really had sales numbers equaling a AAA game, and it certainly was no indie game. Currently if you sign with Microsoft they either want exclusivity or timed exclusivity which means losing additional revenue streams from other platforms, this is a big deal for small teams of 2 or 3 people who have probably sold everything they have and used credit to finance themselves during development. There is no need to have a middle man for small teams, you submit your game to the platform holder, they say yes or no, the game goes up, the platform holder gets a cut and the developer gets a cut. Why does it need to be more difficult? Sounds a lot like MS being the platform distributor or sony being the platform distributor though, doesn't it... kind of exactly like it has been before. also not everone had to agree to exclusivity deals. but hey when you don't have skilled lawyers or such to help to help you out, and you don't have the guts to stand your ground, then you get a worse deal . Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/196710/Xbox_certification_unacceptable_for_freetoplay_says_World_of_Tanks_dev.php Free to play games development isn't a get out of jail free card to sloppily develop games with rushed patches where the balance hasn't been tested and needs to be hot fixed 5 times in 3 days. even if this is how it's usually done today. I do not enjoy applying new hot fixes daily, I prefer being able to load of a game that works with code and balancing that has been tested. Thief000 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 If it weren't for people like Audioboxer this place would be dead again like it was in the past. Not, but it sure would have a lot less hate and FUD and such. he's only posting negative xbox news and only positive PS news. other people are in fact posting xbox and PS news as well. and they don't "miss" the news that don't fit their agenda. I don't like to defend this point but I don't think I've reported you even once. Take it whichever way it suits you. The few times I have reported people it has been because of personal attacks. if I have reported Marty, it's been because of that, if I did, I dunno, I don't keep a log of people I report or peopel faults so I can go back and show it to them later. Only if I get as far as looking at them (and sometimes I do - if a non-branded game sits at the top of a rankings list or something like that), but the easiest thing to spot in the Windows store is if the game is branded or not and I tend not to bother with the ones that aren't branded unless there's something specific I'm looking for. A lot of times I'm just looking for any new game to play without much to go off of, so to limit what I look at, I just don't bother if it doesn't have the XBL brand. Any half decent indie game on xbox gets picked up in XBL anyway. the XBLIG was a cesspit of POST. much like any other indie game playground. SecretAgentMan 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woelfel Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 So basically for Xbox One it's the same as always, and PS4 it's a tad bit different. Ok...moving along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showan Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Speaking exclusively to OXM, Microsoft Studios head Phil Spencer attempted to discuss the firm's reservations about self-publishing shortly before the Xbox One's reveal. The short version is that Microsoft wants to preserve a certain level of quality across its service, and would rather seek out talented developers itself than lure them in by lowering the barriers to entry. Full article here. http://www.oxm.co.uk/58601/lionhead-microsoft-is-passionate-about-indies-on-xbox-one-phil-harrisons-platform-is-very-soon/ Thief000 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 22, 2013 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 22, 2013 Speaking exclusively to OXM, Microsoft Studios head Phil Spencer attempted to discuss the firm's reservations about self-publishing shortly before the Xbox One's reveal. The short version is that Microsoft wants to preserve a certain level of quality across its service, and would rather seek out talented developers itself than lure them in by lowering the barriers to entry. Full article here. http://www.oxm.co.uk/58601/lionhead-microsoft-is-passionate-about-indies-on-xbox-one-phil-harrisons-platform-is-very-soon/ This is basically the same nonsense parroted by those who think MS can do no wrong. I think you might find MS it's talented developers who are talking out about your publishing policies. You don't run an open network, you can block/remove absolutely any game you want from being on your store regardless of your publishing policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showan Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 This is basically the same nonsense parroted by those who think MS can do no wrong. I think you might find MS it's talented developers who are talking out about your publishing policies. You don't run an open network, you can block/remove absolutely any game you want from being on your store regardless of your publishing policies. I wouldn't allow self publishing on my new console... Not right off the bat... Once the console is year 5-8 in, I'd probably loosen up... But I don't want ton of junk during my GRAND OPENING... MS will be hated by "I wanna self publish crowd' at the beginning... but time heals wounds... Sony is getting all the "self publishing" love right now... But they will learn, once they look at their store front and see it loaded with junk... I'm not knocking self publishing one bit... But I turn on a X360 everyday and a PS3 everyday... Lets just say Sony should consider keeping the PS Store clean like it stands now... Yes the PS Store looks barren compared to XB Live. But I'm gonna let you know, sometimes thats not a bad thing... Yes Sony and MS both have QA... But there is a such thing, as being overloaded...And tons of TURDS slip through the cracks... If you have a X360, turn it on and look for yourself... Thief000 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 22, 2013 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 22, 2013 I wouldn't allow self publishing on my new console... Not right off the bat... Once the console is year 5-8 in, I'd probably loosen up... But I don't want ton of junk during my GRAND OPENING... MS will be hated by "I wanna self publish crowd' at the beginning... but time heals wounds... Sony is getting all the "self publishing" love right now... But they will learn, once they look at their store front and see it loaded with junk... I'm not knocking self publishing one bit... But I turn on a X360 everyday and a PS3 everyday... Lets just say Sony should consider keeping the PS Store clean like it stands now... Yes the PS Store looks barren compared to XB Live. But I'm gonna let you know, sometimes thats not a bad thing... Yes Sony and MS both have QA... But there is a such thing, as being overloaded...And tons of TURDS slip through the cracks... If you have a X360, turn it on and look for yourself... Is there some sort of perfect world people live in I do not know of? Serious question? There is a ton of crap games on every single digital store I know of right now. I simply do not need someone to lead my hand like a little child when it comes to spending my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showan Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Is there some sort of perfect world people live in I do not know of? Serious question? There is a ton of crap games on every single digital store I know of right now. I simply do not need someone to lead my hand like a little child when it comes to spending my money. Yes there are a TON OF CRAP games out there... and guess what? that's the problem... It is actually starting to get out of hand... Even from the bigger publishers... Crap games from known publisher, crap games on the XBLA, crap Indie games... Bigger games cost more money thus, this situation can almost handle itself... (Meaning that a big studio can't pump them out in droves, or you end up like THQ) Arcade games cost a bit of money and resources as well, so this also kinda takes care of itself... (same applies as above) Indies games arent really that big and can be done fairly quick on the cheap to... So they can be cranked out in boatloads from different people the world over... More Indies than BIG STUDIOS... So if some kind of 'control' weren't put on this... It would definitely get out of hand... Go look at Android, iOS... and Windows 8 is fresh and it's getting out of control... I'm for Indies... I love Super Meat Boy and Fez... I'm NOT for bloat,fart,etc... I'm not a Wild Wild West type of guy... Thief000 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Is there some sort of perfect world people live in I do not know of? Serious question? There is a ton of crap games on every single digital store I know of right now. I simply do not need someone to lead my hand like a little child when it comes to spending my money. You won't be spending your money on the Xbox store so what exactly is your problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLH Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Speaking exclusively to OXM, Microsoft Studios head Phil Spencer attempted to discuss the firm's reservations about self-publishing shortly before the Xbox One's reveal. The short version is that Microsoft wants to preserve a certain level of quality across its service, and would rather seek out talented developers itself than lure them in by lowering the barriers to entry. Full article here. http://www.oxm.co.uk/58601/lionhead-microsoft-is-passionate-about-indies-on-xbox-one-phil-harrisons-platform-is-very-soon/ I've never heard someone speak so ambiguously. Can't they just announce stuff with clear details rather than beat about the bush? Hopefully the final result is something a long the lines of self-publish with quality control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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