PS4 Hard Drive: Replaceable / Up-gradable.

[compl3x]

Wait a sec, are you saying that there is research data on how many people actually replaced their ps3 hard drive or are interested in the feature?

 

I'm not sure why I'm attacked for giving anecdotal evidence when this whole debate revolves around anecdotal evidence from you and everyone else. I shared my experiences, that's all, not claiming it was a universal opinion. My point was that such people exist and I feel they represent a lot of general users.

 

Excuse me for not validating the popular theme. However, if there is some kind of research that points one way or another, I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

 

 

No, I am asking for someone to provide evidence that people aren't interested in swapping an internal HDD. Everyone just keeps saying "Oh, no one is interested in that" or "most people aren't tech-savvy enough to do it" without providing any evidence that's the case. Your personal experience is minute when you consider the tens of millions of (potential) console owners. Even if only 10% of users weren't interested in that feature that would be millions of customers, but the fact is we don't know what percentage would like that feature.

[trooper11]

The Xbox fanboys (won't mention names - you know who you are) invaded the thread because the Xbox's internal cannot be changed and they're jealous, therefore they are attempting to justify the move by saying external is better than changing the internal.

 

How somebody could write that not being able to change a hard drive is better than being able to change it is beyond me.

 

 

Yeah, that stuff is ridiculous. So many threads get killed by 'pro ms' and 'anti ms'  arguments.

 

No one should justify this stuff. It isn't even that big of a deal.  MS and Sony didn't make their choices to spite us or out of some emotion. Regarding internal vs external, the advantages for both are clear. The rest is your choice.

 

You guys argue and it makes it impossible to talk about these things. I'd like to know more about the ps4's external support for instance. While I can see myself replacing my ps4 hdd like I did the ps3, if I can use say a 4tb external as well in the same way as the X1 can, then all the better.

No, I am asking for someone to provide evidence that people aren't interested in swapping an internal HDD. Everyone just keeps saying "Oh, no one is interested in that" or "most people aren't tech-savvy enough to do it" without providing any evidence that's the case. Your personal experience is minute when you consider the tens of millions of (potential) console owners. Even if only 10% of users weren't interested in that feature that would be millions of customers, but the fact is we don't know what percentage would like that feature.

 

Fair enough, but that means we don't know in general. It doesn't mean the opposite is true either. I have seen people argue that is a feature in high demand.

 

Since we have no real info, I don't think anyone should be arguing the point.

[compl3x]

We don't know either way. I can only speak for myself and say that I personally like the feature.

 

The only point I would make in favour of upgradable HDDs is that both current-gen systems allow it (although I think only one allows it properly) so it is entirely doable with seemingly no inconvenience to the manufacturers. I cannot imagine that it would take to much effort from MS/Sony engineers to allow upgradable HDDs.

 

This comes down to Sony offering a feature MS isn't so people have to defend MS's position to the death.

 

I also find it amusing that people using the "some users aren't tech-savvy enough to upgrade their internal HDDs" don't seem to be applying that logic to the fact the same people who can't upgrade mightn't know the difference between USB 2.0 and 3.0. If you connect a USB 2.0 drive to your X1 you're only going to get 2.0 speeds which undoubtedly will affect gameplay.

 

I can see a lot of user connecting some old ext. HDD to their system and then whining about slow loading times. Probably not straight after launch, but as time goes on and that internal HDD fills up because of mandatory game installs and such I can see it happening.

[+Warwagon MVC]

This is a good thing!

 

/thread

[trooper11]

We don't know either way. I can only speak for myself and say that I personally like the feature.

 

The only point I would make in favour of upgradable HDDs is that both current-gen systems allow it (although I think only one allows it properly) so it is entirely doable with seemingly no inconvenience to the manufacturers. I cannot imagine that it would take to much effort from MS/Sony engineers to allow upgradable HDDs.

 

 

 

Exactly, your giving your opinion based on your own experience, that's all I was doing. I happen to like and want the feature. Its too bad MS doesn't follow suit. Its funny how people blow up such a small feature.

 

Why do you think MS doesn't offer that? Like you said they did it this gen. It can't be about getting money from us since they allow us to use any external, not something proprietary. I don't think anyone considers it a deal breaker feature, but it would have been nice for those of us wanting it.

 

 

 

This comes down to Sony offering a feature MS isn't so people have to defend MS's position to the death.

 

I also find it amusing that people using the "some users aren't tech-savvy enough to upgrade their internal HDDs" don't seem to be applying that logic to the fact the same people who can't upgrade mightn't know the difference between USB 2.0 and 3.0. If you connect a USB 2.0 drive to your X1 you're only going to get 2.0 speeds which undoubtedly will affect gameplay.

 

I can see a lot of user connecting some old ext. HDD to their system and then whining about slow loading times. Probably not straight after launch, but as time goes on and that internal HDD fills up because of mandatory game installs and such I can see it happening.

 

 

Regarding the question of external usage, I would like to know if using usb 3.0 results in a poorer performance vs sata 3. It seems like everyone is dancing around that for some reason. I don't care what 'stupid' people do, this is about what I will do.

 

The reason I care is that I'd like the option to use a 4tb drive with my ps4, but that means I must use an external. Since there is no info from Sony on how externals work, I have no idea if I can use it just like an internal drive.

[compl3x]

Exactly, your giving your opinion based on your own experience, that's all I was doing. 

 

Correct. But people on here are saying the reason why MS wouldn't bother with allowing upgrading internal HDDs is because so few people want it. How do they know so few people don't want it? I thought maybe there was some survey or data which was done which asked consumers about things like this which could corroborate this assertion.

 

 

Regarding the question of external usage, I would like to know if using usb 3.0 results in a poorer performance vs sata 3. It seems like everyone is dancing around that for some reason. I don't care what 'stupid' people do, this is about what I will do.

 

The reason I care is that I'd like the option to use a 4tb drive with my ps4, but that means I must use an external. Since there is no info from Sony on how externals work, I have no idea if I can use it just like an internal drive.

 

The speeds are 5 GB/s USB 3.0 and 6 GB/s SATA III (theoretical) but that mightn't be the only factor which would impact on performance. Maybe the controller in the ext. HDD would impact if it is poor quality (I know some cheaper enclosures have cheap controllers)? Or the drive speed? If you use those WD Green drives which alternate the RPM based on load it might affect performance. If you use a VelociRaptor @ 10,00 RPM it would be fine, but they aren't cheap drives. Even the WD blacks are pretty expensive (for 4TBs). Plus I would want to use an AC powered ext. HDD if I was connecting it to a console to store and run games from. I wouldn't want it powered from the USB port.

 

 

As far as I know, unless new info has come out, external drives for the PS4 won't allow game installs. You can put all of your multimedia content on it but no game installs. 

[BajiRav]

Correct. But people on here are saying the reason why MS wouldn't bother with allowing upgrading internal HDDs is because so few people want it. How do they know so few people don't want it? I thought maybe there was some survey or data which was done which asked consumers about things like this which could corroborate this assertion.

Market research, attachment rate for X360, stats for X360 users. I am sure they went over those numbers. The reason they removed it might be something else though.

[compl3x]

Can we see the research? If not, it is purely speculation. Speculation is fine, as long as you admit it is speculation, not passing it off as fact or self-evident.

 

It would be interesting to know just how many people upgraded their HDDs or would like the feature.

[BajiRav]

Can we see the research? If not, it is purely speculation. Speculation is fine, as long as you admit it is speculation, not passing it off as fact or self-evident.

 

It would be interesting to know just how many people upgraded their HDDs or would like the feature.

It's not speculation, whatever I post on these forums - consider it as official MIcrosoft version.

 

 

seriously? Do you really want every forum post here come with a disclaimer! My post made it pretty clear that I was guessing like most people around here.

 

No, we can't see the research but at least I have participated in many Xbox surveys over the years and besides those are standard tools. It's possible that Microsoft used one or all of them.

 

I kind of upgraded my Xbox 360 HDD once when I moved from Elite (120GB) to S(250GB) but that change was mostly for noise not space.

[compl3x]

When one of the merry band of MS apologists comes skipping into a topic telling us why MS made a decision without any evidence, it's kind of frustrating.

[spenser.d]

Can we see the research? If not, it is purely speculation. Speculation is fine, as long as you admit it is speculation, not passing it off as fact or self-evident.

It would be interesting to know just how many people upgraded their HDDs or would like the feature.

To actually believe any significant part of the market cares about this is to completely ignore the last generation. This was made a big deal 8 years ago, and then nobody talked about it the rest of the lifecycle. It clearly didn't affect the 360's market performance.

I may not have discrete numbers but you can be rest assured if this had been a selling point last gen, MS would be allowing it this time around. They have more data than you can imagine.

[Showan]

Bottom line is this:

 

Being able to swap out internal HDD... Well of course that's awesome feature to have. Games are getting BIGGER & BIGGER

 

External HDD being equal to the internal hdd... That's awesome as well.  I've already got it planned out to, install all my games on the external hdd first.  and if my Xbox One does happen to crap out.  I lose nothing.

 

Sounds like a win win for both consoles.

[GotBored]

To actually believe any significant part of the market cares about this is to completely ignore the last generation. This was made a big deal 8 years ago, and then nobody talked about it the rest of the lifecycle. It clearly didn't affect the 360's market performance.

I may not have discrete numbers but you can be rest assured if this had been a selling point last gen, MS would be allowing it this time around. They have more data than you can imagine.

 

I don't think people here care if a significant market share thinks upgradable hard drive is important, they care if they themselves think its useful.

 

Microsoft had a proprietary hard drive for the X360 which means people are less likely to buy and upgrade the hard drive because the sizes were limited and it wasn't a faster SSD drive.. It was also more pricey.

There was ways around it, but it voided your warranty.

[BajiRav]

I don't think people here care if a significant market share thinks upgradable hard drive is important, they care if they themselves think its useful.

 

Microsoft had a proprietary hard drive for the X360 which means people are less likely to buy and upgrade the hard drive because the sizes were limited and it wasn't a faster SSD drive.. It was also more pricey.

There was ways around it, but it voided your warranty.

As warwagon said, it's a good feature to have for those who care. /thread.

 

About SSD, will that make any significant difference to loading? (Ignoring the pricing for a 500+ GB SSD, which hopefully will get cheaper as the generation ages).

The warranty concern is only for the covered period. You can always open the box after 1st year provided HDDs can still be flashed and used in there.

[trooper11]

 

The speeds are 5 GB/s USB 3.0 and 6 GB/s SATA III (theoretical) but that mightn't be the only factor which would impact on performance. Maybe the controller in the ext. HDD would impact if it is poor quality (I know some cheaper enclosures have cheap controllers)? Or the drive speed? If you use those WD Green drives which alternate the RPM based on load it might affect performance. If you use a VelociRaptor @ 10,00 RPM it would be fine, but they aren't cheap drives. Even the WD blacks are pretty expensive (for 4TBs). Plus I would want to use an AC powered ext. HDD if I was connecting it to a console to store and run games from. I wouldn't want it powered from the USB port.

 

 

As far as I know, unless new info has come out, external drives for the PS4 won't allow game installs. You can put all of your multimedia content on it but no game installs. 

 

I've seen comparisons between usb 3 and sata 3 regarding ssds and there was little or no performance difference. I could dig some up and post here, but i dont know if anyone is interested in that.  Your right that things like the usb controller affect those numbers.  Based on the reviews I've seen I didnt think performance would be an issue, but I was looking for more info on it. 

 

I happen to have an external usb 3.0 case.  It was an empty 3.5" case, so I can plug in any drive I want.  I currently have a 4tb drive in it and so that spurred me on to investigate how I could use it with the ps4.  The X1 info was easier to find since they made a specific statement on it. 

 

Lets remember though that the hard drives built into both consoles are 5400rpm models, which means even a 7200rpm 2.5 or 3.5" drive could outperform it.  Not only that, larger capacity drives have the potential to outperform smaller capacity drives.  So if you had a 4TB 3.5" 7200rpm drive, it could outperform a 500GB 2.5" drive.  Heck, even a 5400/5900 rpm 4TB drive could outperform 500GB 5400rpm drive. 

 

 

When one of the merry band of MS apologists comes skipping into a topic telling us why MS made a decision without any evidence, it's kind of frustrating.

 

 

I agree, its silly for anyone come in and claim to be the expert on such knowledge.  The truth is none of us know why Sony or MS make many of the choices they make.  They aren't going to tell us everything.  Its all speculation.  I dont mind people giving their theory, thats the point of debates, but those that push speculation as the final word are going too far.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

To actually believe any significant part of the market cares about this is to completely ignore the last generation. This was made a big deal 8 years ago, and then nobody talked about it the rest of the lifecycle. It clearly didn't affect the 360's market performance.

I may not have discrete numbers but you can be rest assured if this had been a selling point last gen, MS would be allowing it this time around. They have more data than you can imagine.

 

Maybe not in your social circle or you're conveniently blanking out memories even from Neowin, but it was brought up time and time again. I've answered many topics on NW over the years telling people there is no option to expand memory on the 360 like there was on PS3 (until MS added USB support of course).

 

Even now there is a lot of people either modding together their own hard drives or disassembling the official Slim HDDs to put into the phat 360 enclosures.

 

Microsoft heard the cries for more storage options. Unfortunately all they did was release highly priced official HDDs and weak USB support. Why not let any size USB HDD? Oh right cause then no one would buy the accessories!

[Showan]

Both options are good. Internal and external...

The fact that internal and external HDD are on equal ground ISP's a jackpot for me. I will NOT install any games to the internal HDD initially. I will have a 2TB or so HDD hooked up to my X1 and that will be my storage and then I will go internal... If my system craps out, I can send it I. And lose nothing. Not even install the game again...

[trooper11]

 

 

Microsoft heard the cries for more storage options. Unfortunately all they did was release highly priced official HDDs and weak USB support. Why not let any size USB HDD? Oh right cause then no one would buy the accessories!

 

Thankfully the X1 fixes all of those issues.  MS finally just opened it up for everyone to use what the want via usb.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Thankfully the X1 fixes all of those issues.  MS finally just opened it up for everyone to use what the want via usb.

 

I know. I was replying to Spenser and about the 360 specifically.

 

Who knows, maybe when the eventual redesigned "slim" X1 is released they may allow us to switch internal drives.

[trooper11]

I know. I was replying to Spenser and about the 360 specifically.

 

Who knows, maybe when the eventual redesigned "slim" X1 is released they may allow us to switch internal drives.

 

 

That would be nice. 

 

My guess is that MS didn't want to get into supporting the users that attempted to replace drives or setup the software system to streamline setup of a new drive like Sony does. I'm not sure what would convince them to do it though.  A few of us talking on a forum probably doesn't move the needle.  But MS has shown that they are willing to listen to feedback, so who knows.

 

Still though, I want both options supported as much as possible.  While I will take advantage of replacing an internal drive, I know for a fact that I will need to use a larger external drive as my game collection grows.  If MS allowed the internal drive to be replaced and Sony allowed an external to act as an internal drive like on the X1, that would be great.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

A few of us talking on a forum probably doesn't move the needle.

 

Don't worry, I've been bothering an old friend outside of NW who works at MS to fix things :laugh: Leave it to me guys (Y) ;)

[Torolol]

But MS has shown that they are willing to listen to feedback competition and sales results, so who knows.

fixed.

[Ultravires]

This is not really an issue for me, since you can add an external drive, however does anyone know with the PS4 being replaceable would the original 500GB drive be usable as a normal hd drive for PC (Crap got a bug, i cant use question mark it comes out as ?) If not would it be able to plug into one of the usb ports for the ps4 and used as the 2nd drive. 500GB is alot of space to just throw away and not use the drive, even if you have an upgraded drive in the device.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

This is not really an issue for me, since you can add an external drive, however does anyone know with the PS4 being replaceable would the original 500GB drive be usable as a normal hd drive for PC (Crap got a bug, i cant use question mark it comes out as ?) If not would it be able to plug into one of the usb ports for the ps4 and used as the 2nd drive. 500GB is alot of space to just throw away and not use the drive, even if you have an upgraded drive in the device.

 

Yes there is no reason why not. I repurposed my original PS3/360 HDDs for something when I upgraded them.

[ahhell]

Yes there is no reason why not. I repurposed my original PS3/360 HDDs for something when I upgraded them.

 

New ones could have a custom firmware.