Teens charged after 'thrill kill' of Australian student

[techbeck]

hmm, they should make The Running Man real.  People like this would be perfect for that.

[chrisj1968]

it is always parents' fault that the kids are f*** up because they don't teach them well.

which goes BACK to the Dr. Spock days of NOT punishing our kids due to harming their self-esteem. this generation is a product of our own mistakes here. :/

[adrynalyne]

which goes BACK to the Dr. Spock days of NOT punishing our kids due to harming their self-esteem. this generation is a product of our own mistakes here. :/

That really depends.  Raising a child without punishment doesn't teach right from wrong, either.

 

Edit:

 

Or do you mean not punishing children is the problem?

[FloatingFatMan]

That really depends.  Raising a child without punishment doesn't teach right from wrong, either.

 

Edit:

 

Or do you mean not punishing children is the problem?

 

I'm pretty sure that's what he means.

 

Without consequences for poor behaviour, kids don't learn a damn thing.  Physical punishment has a place to play as well as the alternative options.  Sometimes, the only way to stop negative behaviour is with negative reinforcement.

[DocM]

They learned how to be ###### from someone...

From other gang members. This kind of thing happens in Detroit, Chicago etc. all the time.

Gangsta's literally force younger kids in the neighborhood (usually age 9-12) to join or they and their families will be victimized. Once in it's like a training school, they have to "make their bones" by committing something brutal. If caught the other gangsta's in the juvie facilities teach them even more - which is why the nickname for juvie facilities is "Gladiator Academy." By the time they're "made" or out of GA they're walking nightmares.

Endless friggin circle.

[COKid]

Still against the death penalty? Put them down.

[compl3x]

People here in Aus who I've discussed this with are like ....w...t....f...?

[FloatingFatMan]

From other gang members. This happens in Detroit, Chicago etc. all the time.

Gangsta's literally force younger kids in the neighborhood (usually age 9-12) to join or they and their families will be victimized. Once in it's like a training school, they have to "make their bones" by committing something brutal. If caught the other gangsta's in the juvie facilities teach them even more - which is why the nickname for juvie facilities is "Gladiator Academy." By the time they're "made" or out of GA they're walking nightmares.

Endless friggin circle.

 

Then it's time to end that circle. Don't send such kids to Juvie, send them to other facilities where they can be rehabilitated instead of taught to be even worse, and don't let them resettle back in their old haunts.

[Growled Member]

Still against the death penalty? Put them down.

Or hang them high. Whatever works.

[DocM]

Then it's time to end that circle. Don't send such kids to Juvie, send them to other facilities where they can be rehabilitated instead of taught to be even worse, and don't let them resettle back in their old haunts.

Can't stop them from living where their families live, and you can't shadow them 24/7/375. You can't kick them out of town either.

Juve facilities already have rehabilitation as their primary focus. The problem is what these kids talk about between those sessions and after lights out. If you try to prevent interactions the 'jailhouse lawyers' and civil liberties crowd bring lawsuits claiming you're putting the poor little darlings into "solitary confinement" or otherwise violating their "rights."

Can't stop them from exercising themselves into clones of Bane either.

[ILikeTobacco]

From other gang members. This kind of thing happens in Detroit, Chicago etc. all the time.

Gangsta's literally force younger kids in the neighborhood (usually age 9-12) to join or they and their families will be victimized. Once in it's like a training school, they have to "make their bones" by committing something brutal. If caught the other gangsta's in the juvie facilities teach them even more - which is why the nickname for juvie facilities is "Gladiator Academy." By the time they're "made" or out of GA they're walking nightmares.

Endless friggin circle.

Problem is this isn't your typical gang like you would see in the big cities. At least one of these kids is part of the Crips which most Americans recognize is a fairly big name gang. It isn't the same Crips though. The Crips here in the Lawton/Duncan area are basically just children with no ties to the adult organization. It started in a local high school(Eisenhower High) whose school color happens to be baby blue. Baby blue is the real Crips color. Eisenhower's rival school, Lawton High, happens to have the school color red. That is where the Blood affiliation came from. These kids(not talking about the 3 in the case) basically started these gangs to go with their respective schools and it amounted nothing more than kids wanting to fight for the fun of it and high school rivalry. The national Blood/Crips rivalry just played into that. These kids took it to another level but what they did they didn't learn from their gangs.

[FloatingFatMan]

Juvie facilities already have rehabilitation as their primary focus. The problem is what these kids talk about between those sessions and after lights out. If you try to prevent interactions the 'jailhouse lawyers' and civil liberties crowd bring lawsuits claiming you're putting the poor little darlings into "solitary confinement" or otherwise violating their "rights." Can't stop them from exercising themselves into clones of Bane either.

 

How about a military style camp? Strict discipline and a strong emphasis on respect for authority.  They did something like that as a reality TV show over here a few years ago.  Some minor offenders offered the chance to attend a 1950's style army training camp instead of jail.  OK, it was a TV show, but for -some- of the boys, it actually worked and straightened them out...

[DocM]

Correctional boot camps have been tried, with some still going and private ones catering to parents of troubled kids. Most all studies show no reduction in the recidivism rate. Same problem as the Gladiator Academies - unofficial off hour "training."

The kids in Chicago, Detroit and elsewhere are WAY beyond Bloods & Crips. Hispanic kids are in gangs like The Latin Counts, Domincan kids are in the truely evil MS-13 (though they're now expanding into other ethnicities), and other violent gangs that make the B&C's look like amateurs..

[FloatingFatMan]

It's an extremely difficult problem to solve, but it needs to be handled... somehow.  As a society we cannot allow this sort of behaviour to continue; it will destroy us.

[ILikeTobacco]

The kids in Chicago, Detroit and elsewhere are WAY beyond Bloods & Crips. Hispanic kids are in gangs like The Latin Counts, Domincan kids are in the truely evil MS-13 (though they're now expanding into other ethnicities), and other violent gangs that make the B&C's look like amateurs..

That's what I am saying though. People need to stop reading "gangs" and running with it. One of these kids was part of a gang, but not the kind you think about normally when you hear the term. The reason the police know its not gang related at all is that normally when something happens around here that is gang related, gang members will start bragging about it. Nobody is bragging about this. We had a stabbing a few years back that was related to one of the fighting groups and they bragged about it with the kid going to prison(was 17 year old senior). There is also some stuff going around about how one of the kids possibly knew the gf plus the thing about how supposedly one of the kids wasn't even in the car until after the shooting. They already have proof that one kid pulled the trigger but another one of them is claiming it was actually him. This who case is just a mess. These kids have no idea what they are in for. Even if one of them gets out of it all, he won't survive for long. Someone from one of the real gangs around here will put him in his place.

[ILikeTobacco]

It's an extremely difficult problem to solve, but it needs to be handled... somehow.  As a society we cannot allow this sort of behaviour to continue; it will destroy us.

In this case, it isn't actually that hard. The Lawton/Duncan area has absolutely NOTHING to do for teenagers. Teenagers will get into trouble if they get bored. Eventually, someone will go over the top with it like this case. You can't be in the mall past 7 or 8 without parental supervision if you are 17 or younger. You can't go to any movie that goes past 8 without parents. Use to have a skating rink that was shut down for dealing drugs. The skate park closes early because they can't get security out there. We don't even have mini golf anymore. All public parks are closed to the public after dark. There is nothing to do around here if you are under the age of 18. The fix for this problem is to make the area safe and open for kids to do constructive things versus destructive things.

[FloatingFatMan]

There is nothing to do around here if you are under the age of 18. The fix for this problem is to make the area safe and open for kids to do constructive things versus destructive things.

 

Ah, now we have people claiming similar reasons in many areas over here too. Whilst I can agree that facilities need to exist for kids to find productive activities, the lack of said facilities is not an excuse for the opposite.  The fact of it is that, when I was a kid, we had sod all to do except hang around too, and y'know what?  I never broke the law.

[DocM]

It's an extremely difficult problem to solve, but it needs to be handled... somehow. As a society we cannot allow this sort of behaviour to continue; it will destroy us.

No arguement there. Another issue is that in many of the most affected black areas there is a strong peer pressure against education. The gangsta's say it's indoctrination by "whitey."

The educational system acts like it isn't happening and their parents, most being single mothers, don't value education because they came up the same way. Talk about making matters worse.

The Rap on Culture. How Anti-Education Messages in Media, at Home,. & on the Street Hold Back African-American Youth

http://www.policy-bridge.org/PolicyBridge_final_report%20on%20Culture%205-11-07.pdf

[timster]

Then it's time to end that circle. Don't send such kids to Juvie, send them to other facilities where they can be rehabilitated instead of taught to be even worse, and don't let them resettle back in their old haunts.

that's hard to do when the prison system is such big business in America

[ILikeTobacco]

Ah, now we have people claiming similar reasons in many areas over here too. Whilst I can agree that facilities need to exist for kids to find productive activities, the lack of said facilities is not an excuse for the opposite.  The fact of it is that, when I was a kid, we had sod all to do except hang around too, and y'know what?  I never broke the law.

It certainly not the sole reason but its a big factor. I grew up here and when we got bored as kids, we walked a mile to the nearest basketball court, or walked 3 or 4 miles over to the mall. Now it isn't safe to let you kid walk more than 2 or 3 houses away from your own home. These kids didn't get from perfectly normal kids to kill someone in a single decision. They were desensitized to causing trouble over time. Parents are the start of teaching kids right but they can't be there 24/7. When you go to one of the local schools, the kids around here are all like this(not the murder part, the causing problems part) and egg each other on to one up each other. There are no positive influences here at all. The majority of these kids accept that they won't amount to much and know they will just join the military anyway. The local recruiters here are more than happy to take them and it doesn't help that Lawton/Duncan is attached to one of the largest training and defense bases in the country so these kids see young military guys rolling through with $30k to $40k cars picking up all the local girls. Why try harder in school if you can no try and get all that anyway.

[ILikeTobacco]

that's hard to do when the prison system is such big business in America

I wish it was. At least a big business would be trying to make money, not waste tax pay dollars. Some inmates make more than the average wage when you consider living expenses, healthcare, education, etc.

[DocM]

that's hard to do when the prison system is such big business in America

Only about 8-10% of the total prisoners, and it's nothing new. Private prisons date back to colonial times, expanding after the Civil War during Reconstruction.

[Growled Member]

It's an extremely difficult problem to solve, but it needs to be handled... somehow.  As a society we cannot allow this sort of behaviour to continue; it will destroy us.

It is destroying us. These kids are hardcore. I wish I could see a solution but I think things are going to get much worse before they get better.

[DocM]

It is destroying us. These kids are hardcore. I wish I could see a solution but I think things are going to get much worse before they get better.

Precisely. This is what I talk about when discussing the need for aggressive self-defense with out European etc. friends - the breed of gangsta's we have here would give their gang members and hardened criminals nightmares. They're like T-800's with a crack or meth habit.

[adrynalyne]

A lot of these problems could be solved by allowing parents to discipline their kids again. Every time a kid deserves and ass beaten idiots go off about child abuse. Let parents slap some sense into these kids again.

Also need to stop allowing guns to be is easily available.

Black markets for guns don't care about gun laws.  So I don't know how you would accomplish that.