Teens charged after 'thrill kill' of Australian student

By Hum
in Real World News

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Rising Star

Coagulated

Posted
Posted

What I love (being sarcastic) is that his dad said that he's a good boy and that he'd never do such a thing.. Yeah every parent of a ghetto piece of trash thug seems to say the damn thing. This makes me angry. This isn't even a gun issue this is a parenting issue. Good boy my ass.

 

It's the same over here.  Some kid dies or commits a heinous act and all the parents can say is they were an angel - when in actual fact the kid has a criminal record that stretches as far as the eye can see.

 

Most of the time, I feel sorry for the person in question because 9 times out of 10 they had a terrible upbringing and didn't just "fall in with the wrong crowd". It's the parents who should be shouldering the blame for their actions or demise.

Grand Master

FloatingFatMan

Posted
Posted

Most of the time, I feel sorry for the person in question because 9 times out of 10 they had a terrible upbringing and didn't just "fall in with the wrong crowd". It's the parents who should be shouldering the blame for their actions or demise.

 

Perhaps it's time to start punishing parents as well, then. At least when the perp is under 18 anyway.

Grand Master

ILikeTobacco

Posted
Posted

It's the same over here.  Some kid dies or commits a heinous act and all the parents can say is they were an angel - when in actual fact the kid has a criminal record that stretches as far as the eye can see.

 

Most of the time, I feel sorry for the person in question because 9 times out of 10 they had a terrible upbringing and didn't just "fall in with the wrong crowd". It's the parents who should be shouldering the blame for their actions or demise.

Problem around here is that the entire school is the wrong crowd. By the time you hit middle school here, everyone is trying to get you to join either the Dos or Tres which is basically a "gang" game where one member of either group jumps you. When that happens, you are part of that group. Eventually, they bring you to jump someone else. Whoever has the most members any particular year wins. The two groups are made up of almost 100% of the minority populations at the schools so there is no avoiding it. By the time you hit high school, you are so indoctrinated to this violent "gang" that joining the "Crips" or "Bloods" is just the logical next step and you don't think twice. At this point it becomes about drugs mostly and sometimes fighting with the rival gang. Those two groups are the reason every high school in Lawton has medal detectors, video cameras in all the halls and classrooms, no student is allowed to wear a coat or take a backpack to class, and everyone most wear an idea visible at all times. However, the violence stays in the gangs and usually doesn't spill over unless you are dumb enough to talk trash about the gang itself. 6 years of spending 7 hours a day around this and you can't blame the parents anymore. You can do everything right at home but nothing you do can stop that because they are forced into that environment. The only other choice you have is to home school but then you can't pay your bills so that's not actually a choice. You can't send your kid to church because if you do, they are just around the same kids that they would be around at school.

 

Everyone is always so quick to blame the parents but ignore that 7 hours of the day, they have no legal right to be in contact or influence their children. That 7 hours happens to be where this behavior is encouraged by peers.

Rising Star

Coagulated

Posted
Posted

Perhaps it's time to start punishing parents as well, then. At least when the perp is under 18 anyway.

 

It'll be hard to prove in a lot of cases, but I think if you raise something to be violent (be it child or animal), then you should face consequences.

Grand Master

FloatingFatMan

Posted
Posted

It'll be hard to prove in a lot of cases, but I think if you raise something to be violent (be it child or animal), then you should face consequences.

 

As a parent of 2 myself (13 and 10), I'm fully willing to accept punishment if they behave so badly that the law gets involved.  It means that I have failed in MY responsibility to bring up decently behaved kids!

Grand Master

KingCracker

Posted
Posted

As a parent of 2 myself (13 and 10), I'm fully willing to accept punishment if they behave so badly that the law gets involved.  It means that I have failed in MY responsibility to bring up decently behaved kids!

Parents often do take the punishment for their kids actions at-least in civil court. Criminal court is different though.

Grand Master

ILikeTobacco

Posted
Posted

As a parent of 2 myself (13 and 10), I'm fully willing to accept punishment if they behave so badly that the law gets involved.  It means that I have failed in MY responsibility to bring up decently behaved kids!

UK must be different because for about 7 hours every day during the week, not only are they not your responsibility, you have no legal right to contact them. Parents get in serious trouble when they take there kids out of school any day unless they are sick. There are few exceptions like death in the family but the schools will even fight you if you try to take them out of class for a dentist appointment.

Grand Master

KingCracker

Posted
Posted

UK must be different because for about 7 hours every day during the week, not only are they not your responsibility, you have no legal right to contact them. Parents get in serious trouble when they take there kids out of school any day unless they are sick. There are few exceptions like death in the family but the schools will even fight you if you try to take them out of class for a dentist appointment.

They will have the police come to your house if they miss to many days. They started doing that right after I left high school back in 2000. If your kid missed X amount of days the parents would get a visit from the police and in some cases thrown in county jail for a day. 

Grand Master

ILikeTobacco

Posted
Posted

They will have the police come to your house if they miss to many days. They started doing that right after I left high school back in 2000. If your kid missed X amount of days the parents would get a visit from the police and in some cases thrown in county jail for a day. 

Same here. I think the magic number is really close but not at the number of days you can miss without being held back for the year. Not sure what that number is though. I know I got close one year. :)

Grand Master

FloatingFatMan

Posted
Posted

UK must be different because for about 7 hours every day during the week, not only are they not your responsibility, you have no legal right to contact them. Parents get in serious trouble when they take there kids out of school any day unless they are sick. There are few exceptions like death in the family but the schools will even fight you if you try to take them out of class for a dentist appointment.

 

Very different... Kids have to be in school, yes... But there's no law that can block you from contacting your kid during the day, or taking them to appointments etc. That's just nonsense. 

Grand Master

ILikeTobacco

Posted
Posted

Very different... Kids have to be in school, yes... But there's no law that can block you from contacting your kid during the day, or taking them to appointments etc. That's just nonsense. 

Well then I can understand why you may think its always the parents fault and not the schools. Many of the behavioral problems here come from the schools lack of teaching the kids morals and proper behavior. All they do is tell the kids, do your homework and memorize these facts so you can pass your test. It is just a bad environment in general. I don't know about other places, but the schools here in Lawton/Duncan/Elgin have become a real problem because the only people influencing the kids during the day are the other kids. One bad apple spoils the bunch but now the entire bunch is spoiled.

 

The logic you normally hear when it comes to appointments is that you should have made the appointment after school hours. It is a fair point, but that isn't always an option since it also requires the parent to take time off work when it is allowed.

Grand Master

FloatingFatMan

Posted
Posted

It's not -that- different I guess... Our schools would rather appointments be outside school time, there's just no legal restriction on that.  Schools DO have responsibility for the care of your child whilst there, but again, there's no legal restriction from you accessing your kid, nor are you legal absolved of responsibility during that time either.

 

Maybe our teaching system is just different... Poor behaviour is not generally tolerated and is stopped quickly for the most part. I hear it can get worse in the inner cities, but nothing like as bad as I see described for US schools.

Grand Master

ILikeTobacco

Posted
Posted

It's not -that- different I guess... Our schools would rather appointments be outside school time, there's just no legal restriction on that.  Schools DO have responsibility for the care of your child whilst there, but again, there's no legal restriction from you accessing your kid, nor are you legal absolved of responsibility during that time either.

 

Maybe our teaching system is just different... Poor behaviour is not generally tolerated and is stopped quickly for the most part. I hear it can get worse in the inner cities, but nothing like as bad as I see described for US schools.

The don't "tolerate" bad behavior and the punishment is to put you in a room filled with other kids that display bad behavior. This of course just makes it worse for that group as their peers are now the worst behaving people. Starts a cycle.

Grand Master

FloatingFatMan

Posted
Posted

The don't "tolerate" bad behavior and the punishment is to put you in a room filled with other kids that display bad behavior. This of course just makes it worse for that group as their peers are now the worst behaving people. Starts a cycle.

 

Ah, there's a difference.. At least in all the schools I'm familiar with, they don't do that.  Badly disruptive kids are removed from the school altogether, otherwise it's dealt with in supervised after-school detentions and such.

 

Putting a bunch of thugs in a room together, and not making sure they're supervised, is not exactly smart.

Grand Master

ILikeTobacco

Posted
Posted

Ah, there's a difference.. At least in all the schools I'm familiar with, they don't do that.  Badly disruptive kids are removed from the school altogether, otherwise it's dealt with in supervised after-school detentions and such.

 

Putting a bunch of thugs in a room together, and not making sure they're supervised, is not exactly smart.

If they get bad enough, they get sent to another school specifically for them. They get a GED and EVERYONE there is a problem person. At this point, your life is basically over. A GED means you will likely not get accepted to college and your only option is flipping burgers or the military. Your grades don't matter other than "passing" with a really low standard for the word so the kids have no reason to care anymore. If you end up there, it amounts to the system gave up on you and is just getting you through because of legal obligation. You won't learn anything nor will it prepare you for life after high school.

Grand Master

DocM

Posted
Posted

A school for failed kids? Eeesh... We have nothing like that... That's just giving up on them.

"Alternative Education." My wife taught in our districts AE school 2 years (she has a special ed. qualification.) One of those imposed transfers that schools sometimes do. In those 2 years she was sent to the hospital 4 times for injuries inflicted by the little darlings; bites on her arms, punches to the face, wrenched shoulder, and a broken finger.

I totally lost it after the last one and told the school districts superintendent that if she wasn't transferred out our lawyer was going after everyone in sight, starting with him.

Grand Master

DocM

Posted
Posted

Sounds like the zoo would have been a better destination for the little darlings.

Yup. Now imagine entire high schools with more than half like that, and often they're on a waiting list for an AE slot to open up. That's what many big city schools face.

Parents of the good kids use School Of Choice, charter schools, private academies, Catholic or other church schools, or have the kids reside with a relative in the suburbs to get them out of the city public school system. Whats left there is a concentrated population of hoods, druggies, psychopaths and other miscreants.

Grand Master

trag3dy

Posted
Posted

Thats a load of crap, if they dont know at the age of 15 16,17 that killing someone is wrong that is not a parental issue, they obviously just dont care and are ###### and deserve to die, cus its morons like that in the world that bring it down

 

It is a parenting issue. My guess is the kids have never been punished for doing a single wrong thing in their lives and Call of Duty is a better parent to them than their actual parents.

 

I'm not saying video games made them violent. I'm saying their parents likely didn't want anything to do with their children which is why one of the dads could say "my kid could never do anything like that" or something similar. He didn't know a single thing about his kid.

Grand Master

ILikeTobacco

Posted
Posted

It is a parenting issue. My guess is the kids have never been punished for doing a single wrong thing in their lives and Call of Duty is a better parent to them than their actual parents.

 

I'm not saying video games made them violent. I'm saying their parents likely didn't want anything to do with their children which is why one of the dads could say "my kid could never do anything like that" or something similar. He didn't know a single thing about his kid.

Not really. Not in this town. You can be parent #1! and still end up with that kind of kid here in Lawton/Duncan. Read my posts about the situation in the schools. There is no way to keep your kid from being influenced into this kind of behavior. All the good parenting in the world will not do much to stop everyone at the school pushing you into that kind of behavior. It is completely on the kids by that age. Whether you had good or bad parents is irrelevant. I know plenty of people that had terrible parents and didn't end up like this while others had great parents and didn't end up stable. People who say its a parenting issue without knowing the actually situation are over simplifying it.

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