Microsoft's Penello: No way is Xbox One giving up 30% power advantage t

[trooper11]

It's not a separate processor and GPU, it can run as hot as it needs to.

 

I don't expect the stupid arguments will be calmed down til mid 2014 at the earliest heh.

 

 

There have been times when these ridiculous arguments depress me a bit as a gamer.  There are just too many on the internet that have to fight about this stuff, have to attack these companies for whatever reason, even in the face of a good product. 

 

In an era where it seems like everybody has a youtube channel making videos about all the things they have to speak about about or rage about, etc, it can seem like there are more jerks in the gaming community then ever before.  There are numerous gaming outlets on youtube that regularly post half of the info regarding a story, poke fun at a company they have a personal bias against, etc, fueling the 'raging' that occurs in comments and forums all over.   It reaches beyond gaming, but your point was about the console wars.

 

When I was younger, there was never this kind of hostility towards brands among my friends, etc.  Yeah, there was marketing from various console makers that would stir the pot with the 'bit wars', etc, but there was not this sort of community army that would decide to trash one company or another.  Now there is and it can get rough.

[JonnyLH]

It's not a separate processor and GPU, it can run as hot as it needs to.

 

I don't expect the stupid arguments will be calmed down til mid 2014 at the earliest heh.

I don't get what you're saying? I even mentioned APU in the post you quoted.

 

To be honest, it shocks me that everyone is so childish to be throwing around these percentage figures in a box which hasn't even got its clock speeds announced. With the size of the box, Sony could of opted for more CU's with a slower clock speed to counteract the heat production in the box. Which would be a very logical thing to do considering the size of it. With Sony only announcing the tech details of the cores and leaving the clock speed out of it, they could simply just be pulling off what they've done in previous generations, like Albert has said.

[spaceelf]

I don't get what you're saying? I even mentioned APU in the post you quoted.

I was just saying as one part they put out less heat than seperate parts.  Heat is becoming much less of a problem, otherwise tablets wouldn't be as powerful as they are.

[JonnyLH]

I was just saying as one part they put out less heat than seperate parts.  Heat is becoming much less of a problem, otherwise tablets wouldn't be as powerful as they are.

Actually the opposite, because the chips are together, they produce more heat.

[BajiRav]

I don't get what you're saying? I even mentioned APU in the post you quoted.

 

To be honest, it shocks me that everyone is so childish to be throwing around these percentage figures in a box which hasn't even got its clock speeds announced. With the size of the box, Sony could of opted for more CU's with a slower clock speed to counteract the heat production in the box. Which would be a very logical thing to do considering the size of it. With Sony only announcing the tech details of the cores and leaving the clock speed out of it, they could simply just be pulling off what they've done in previous generations, like Albert has said.

That doesn't make any sense. The easy way out is to increase the size of the box instead of adding cost (larger, costlier silicon) to it. They have indirectly committed to a 800MHz GPU when they quoted a 1.8something TFlops number at reveal.

The most they will do is underclock the CPU but given the specs, I don't think heat will be a problem for them, but it may run louder compared to XBO.

[JonnyLH]

That doesn't make any sense. The easy way out is to increase the size of the box instead of adding cost (larger, costlier silicon) to it. They have indirectly committed to a 800MHz GPU when they quoted a 1.8something TFlops number at reveal.

The most they will do is underclock the CPU but given the specs, I don't think heat will be a problem for them, but it may run louder compared to XBO.

You're forgetting that this is a business and the engineers aren't usually the ones who have the last say. I'm just saying, all that kit in the box which is that small is either very loud or under clocked.

[vcfan]

You're forgetting that this is a business and the engineers aren't usually the ones who have the last say. I'm just saying, all that kit in the box which is that small is either very loud or under clocked.

 

i mean,its possible, but they can easily fit it in that size box with those specs without a doubt. will it be quiet? with the power supply in there and that size? doubtful.

 

the reason xbox one is bigger is because they are positioning this thing to be an entertainment box, therefore it is imperative that its very silent. they've been actively promoting how silent it is. look at the size of the heatsink and fan

 

[JonnyLH]

i mean,its possible, but they can easily fit it in that size box with those specs without a doubt. will it be quiet? with the power supply in there and that size? doubtful.

 

the reason xbox one is bigger is because they are positioning this thing to be an entertainment box, therefore it is imperative that its very silent. they've been actively promoting how silent it is. look at the size of the heatsink and fan

 

Exactly my point, dat heatsink & fan. That's how much heat extraction an APU with 5 billion transistors needs to run cool, considering the top is one great vent also.

[BajiRav]

Exactly my point, dat heatsink & fan. That's how much heat extraction an APU with 5 billion transistors needs to run cool, considering the top is one great vent also.

PS4's die size is some 25% smaller (don't quote me on the exact number)

[JonnyLH]

PS4's die size is some 25% smaller (don't quote me on the exact number)

Ah, that'll be due to the lack of ESRAM. RAM doesn't produce much heat though as it requires minimal voltage. So the main culprits of the heat generation still remain in the same die.

 

EDIT: Have they even officially announced the die size and SoC specifics? I'd really like to know some more details.

[vcfan]

yup. 363mm2

[spaceelf]

i mean,its possible, but they can easily fit it in that size box with those specs without a doubt. will it be quiet? with the power supply in there and that size? doubtful.

 

the reason xbox one is bigger is because they are positioning this thing to be an entertainment box, therefore it is imperative that its very silent. they've been actively promoting how silent it is. look at the size of the heatsink and fan

wher'ed the pic come from?

[JonnyLH]

isn't that pic an x360?  It looks pretty darn close to this http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Xbox+360+E+Teardown/15062/2 (step 11, pic with the cover coming off)

They are very similar, that is actually the X1. I've taken apart and saved my 360 numerous times from imminent death by removing the x-clamps and screwing the CPU/GPU to the board. It looks like they share the same case structure and heat extraction design just on a larger scale. For example, my 4 year old 360 S has a vent on the top directly above the SoC with a smaller heatsink and fan straight above it. Its just a good way to directly extract heat since the warm air isn't channelled through the box like it was in the original.

[spaceelf]

They are very similar, that is actually the X1. I've taken apart and saved my 360 numerous times from imminent death by removing the x-clamps and screwing the CPU/GPU to the board. It looks like they share the same case structure and heat extraction design just on a larger scale. For example, my 4 year old 360 S has a vent on the top directly above the SoC with a smaller heatsink and fan straight above it. Its just a good way to directly extract heat since the warm air isn't channelled through the box like it was in the original.

I edited, just hadn't seen it before I guess.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

More about the RAM

 

PlayStation 4 is currently around 50 per cent faster than its rival Xbox One. Multiple high-level game development sources have described the difference in performance between the consoles as ?significant? and ?obvious.?

 

Our contacts have told us that memory reads on PS4 are 40-50 per cent quicker than Xbox One, and its ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) is around 50 per cent faster. One basic example we were given suggested that without optimisation for either console, a platform-agnostic development build can run at around 30FPS in 1920?1080 on PS4, but it?ll run at ?20-something? FPS in 1600?900 on Xbox One. ?Xbox One is weaker and it?s a pain to use its ESRAM,? concluded one developer.

 

Microsoft is aware of the problem and, having recently upped the clock speed of Xbox One, is working hard to close the gap on PS4, though one developer we spoke to downplayed the move. ?The clock speed update is not significant, it does not change things that much,? he said. ?Of course, something is better than nothing.?

 

Even this close to launch, ?the hardware isn?t locked,? said another source. Sony and Microsoft are each still working on the graphics drivers for each console, and Xbox One is lagging behind in this regard ? Microsoft ?has been late on their drivers and that has been hurting them,? said one source. Another described Xbox One?s graphics drivers less charitably as ?horrible?. Both consoles? graphics drivers will continue to improve right up to ? and beyond ? launch, which will even up the difference in performance a little.

 

 

More @ http://www.edge-online.com/news/power-struggle-the-real-differences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/

[BajiRav]

The only part I call BS is this

Xbox One is weaker and it?s a pain to use its ESRAM

The layout is pretty much exactly same as Xbox 360. MS' dev. tools take care of it automatically and then devs can optimize further if they want.

Rest, we know specs, time to show games.

[spenser.d]

More about the RAM

More @ http://www.edge-online.com/news/power-struggle-the-real-differences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/

So they ran tests without any optimization and the results came out how they look on paper? We don't need a developer who sounds like he clearly doesn't care for MS anyways to come to that conclusion for us.

Proof is in the gaming and we've already seen games looking better on Xbox than on PS4. Whether that is a trend or not I don't know but we don't have long to wait to find out.

[JonnyLH]

More about the RAM

 

 

More @ http://www.edge-online.com/news/power-struggle-the-real-differences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/

Already made a thread:

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1176543-power-struggle-the-real-differences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/

 

That article has so many wrongs in it its untrue, it specifically mentions that both the hardware platforms aren't locked even though both have gone into mass production. The X1 DirectX driver has been final since E3. Do you honestly hold any weight to anything Edge say? They're known for siding unbelievable biased to get purchases and page hits.

[vcfan]

ALU is 50% faster? :laugh:

 

destroyed any credibility of actually being a rumor. it doesn't work that way. move along.

[JonnyLH]

ALU is 50% faster? :laugh:

 

destroyed any credibility of actually being a rumor. it doesn't work that way. move along.

Its hilarious isn't it. PS4 knows its times tables better so it's ALU is 50% faster. I wish they'd approve my account on GAF.

[MikeChipshop Member]

:D

 

The Sony fanboyism is actually starting to push me more and more towards an XB1 as my first purchase.

[trooper11]

More about the RAM

 

 

More @ http://www.edge-online.com/news/power-struggle-the-real-differences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/

 

 

Hmm, interesting article. 

 

Well if this is all true, than it looks bad for the X1. Although its interesting that this article is basically at odds with some other recent articles that don't paint the X1 in a bad light.

 

I guess we will have to wait and see if someone refutes this info.  One thing I've noticed over the course of these console generations is that you will see articles like this that go back and forth.

 

Id love to see a definitive source, but what are the odds of that happening?

 

But hey, its a big win for the Sony fans though, if the article holds to be true.

[George P Global Moderator]

When a number of developers, big names in the business, come out officially and not hiding behind anonymity to tell us that the two are very close what more do people want?    Kojima said they're very close back at E3 iirc, Carmack said they're very similar in front of loads of people.   The MS guys come out officially and state that they two are close, not even knocking the PS4 but just to debunk this overblown 30%, 40%, 50% (every week it seems to change) on paper theoretical performance difference.

 

You know who's keeping quite in all of this?  Sony.   Why aren't they coming out to defend their supposed massive performance difference?   I mean they jumped all over the chance to take shots at the XB1 over game sharing and used games and even jump ahead on the developer story before MS officially posted details about it's own indie program.   Now they're quiet about it?  Sony?  HA!   Sorry but I think we all know them better than that, any advantage they have they'd trumpet up and down the media till no end.  And yet, what do we see?   We get silence.   So I'm sure the fans will say they're being the better sport or w/e new excuse one can come up with for this lack of a response but no way, not those smug and arrogant SCE guys.  

[BajiRav]

Hmm, interesting article.

with outdated / wrong info

- PS4's APU is not 50% faster, its GPU has 50% more specs. PS4's on chip bus is slower compared to XBO.

- XBO's graphics driver was updated recently, is this article before or after the update?

and look - they say "the cloud" will make XBO faster than PS4 - what do PS4 fanboys think of it now? :laugh:

[trooper11]

with outdated / wrong info

- PS4's APU is not 50% faster, its GPU has 50% more specs. PS4's on chip bus is slower compared to XBO.

- XBO's graphics driver was updated recently, is this article before or after the update?

and look - they say "the cloud" will make XBO faster than PS4 - what do PS4 fanboys think of it now? :laugh:

 

 

See this is why its a tad frustrating.  Everyone seems to be contradicting everyone else.  I hope that there is something to sort this stuff out.