Ryster Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 theyarecomingforyou, shooting first and asking questions later is hardly a trait unique to American police. You are here taking pot shots at them yourself without being in full command of the facts. Pot Kettle Black much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blerk Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 They didn't shoot at her for that. As you can clearly see in the video, they surrounded her and tried to get her out of the car before someone got hurt. Instead she drives in to them. Not knowing anything about police training in UK vs. US, what I'm most curious is why no-one bashed in her windows with a baton or something, because that seems to be a reasonably common modus operandi for traffic cops in the UK. I'm not criticizing, I'm just wondering. You're mistaken. People aren't defending the woman but rather are criticising the police response. The two are very different. You seem to be in the minority, not many people seem to be criticizing the police response. And since you don't have all the information on the situation, accusing the police of "shoot first, ask questions later" seems a bit ironic, no? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudslag Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I think the problem is that it has become so accepted that police are justified in using deadly force that it isn't even questioned. Most of the time there isn't even an inquiry, with officers back out on the streets as if nothing happened. Killing a suspect should be a BIG deal. I think the issue I have is that most of these situations end up as a firing squad. We're not talking about a clear chain of command where the lead officer makes a calculated decision to use deadly force to resolve the situation; it just becomes an 'each man for himself' situation where everybody opens fire. There was an incident in Times Square a while back where a man with a knife was shot dead and there were bullets flying everywhere and the police were running around like headless chickens. Some of these you're talking about upwards of 40 shots being fired, with bystanders being put at significant risk. These are the officers protecting the nation's capital and some of the most important buildings in the country. Their response should be exemplary, their training unmatched. It looked like she panicked and wanted to get away from there rather than trying to kill anyone, not that I am in anyway trying to defend her behaviour. More concerning is that the media coverage on CNN stated that the police demonstrated great restraint by not firing sooner. Let's get a few things out of the way so you can stop the nonsense of ignorance. 1. Law enforcement did NOT shoot first and ask questions later. The video evidence alone proves that and if you watch it again. They try to talk her down for at least 10 secs before she makes the conscious decision to take off in a speeding car. 2. Her speeding car is as much of a potential weapon as any gun. 3. Law enforcement had no clue her intentions, be it if she was confused, on drugs, crazy or even a potential terrorist. She could have been a distraction for something bigger somewhere else. There was zero way of knowing any of that at the time of the incident. 4/5. She takes in a speeding car and does injure someone. With that said, the notion that some one might have not been injured is no way a reason to think that lethal force is unnecessary. You don't nor should you need to wait for someone to be hurt or killed before being open to the option of lethal force. 6. For every story of law enforcement using lethal force, there are thousands if not tens of thousands of situations that didn't make the media, even with someone dying at the hands of cops or being hurt. You ONLY hear about these stories because they make for sensational bites for the media. A arrest with no one getting hurt or dying rarely is news worthy. 7. Law enforcement with lethal capabilities is a NECESSITY for a society to succeed, period. Bad guys don't obey laws, that's a FACT, you HAVE to have the ability to counter that. In the end, this woman was responsible for her actions, stop blaming law enforcement for doing their job, which unfortunately happened to end with her death. Tews 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soniqstylz Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Not knowing anything about police training in UK vs. US, what I'm most curious is why no-one bashed in her windows with a baton or something, because that seems to be a reasonably common modus operandi for traffic cops in the UK. I'm not criticizing, I'm just wondering. Because she may be armed (and some reports say she was, but those may be mistaken, I don't know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 theyarecomingforyou, shooting first and asking questions later is hardly a trait unique to American police. Unique? No. though no other western society has the same issues with police shootings. 7. Law enforcement with lethal capabilities is a NECESSITY for a society to succeed, period. Bad guys don't obey laws, that's a FACT, you HAVE to have the ability to counter that. The issue I have is the frequency at which those powers are executed. There are very few deaths in the UK as a result of police, dramatically lower than the US even after you factor in the population difference. Many years in the UK there are NO deaths resulting from police actions?the rest of the time there is typically a single death a year, which equates to the equivalent of 5 deaths per year with the population difference?yet in the US they're a daily occurrence (last year 587 people were killed by police in the US). If we look at a country like Germany there were six people killed by the police, with only 85 incidents involving gunfire - scaling to the US population that's the equivalent of 24 deaths. By any reasonable measure the number of people killed by police in the US is grossly excessive. We can debate the specifics of particular instances but the overall pattern is beyond dispute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudslag Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Unique? No. though no other western society has the same issues with police shootings. The issue I have is the frequency at which those powers are executed. There are very few deaths in the UK as a result of police, dramatically lower than the US even after you factor in the population difference. Many years in the UK there are NO deaths resulting from police actions?the rest of the time there is typically a single death a year, which equates to the equivalent of 5 deaths per year with the population difference?yet in the US they're a daily occurrence (last year 587 people were killed by police in the US). If we look at a country like Germany there were six people killed by the police, with only 85 incidents involving gunfire - scaling to the US population that's the equivalent of 24 deaths. By any reasonable measure the number of people killed by police in the US is grossly excessive. We can debate the specifics of particular instances but the overall pattern is beyond dispute. The Uk has about 60 million people, the US has about 300 million people, basic common sense tells you the bigger the population you have the more incidents there will be. Obviously there are other factors involved but comparing a country smaller then the state of Oregon, you start to lose credibility points for your argument. You make constant generalizations based a minority number of incidents taken from a much larger picture. Also comparing other countries to the US which has much different gun laws is just asinine. We wont no matter how much you hate it get rid of our guns or legal Right to own guns, with that, we also have to accept the dark side that guns will be accessible to those that will not follow the laws regardless. The simple FACT is guns are here to stay, whining about it from a country a quarter of the way around the world, wont change that. Tews 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlintyV Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 The Uk has about 60 million people, the US has about 300 million people, basic common sense tells you the bigger the population you have the more incidents there will be. Did you miss the part where he specifically said "after you factor in the population difference" and " scaling to the US population" ? theyarecomingforyou 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 The Uk has about 60 million people, the US has about 300 million people, basic common sense tells you the bigger the population you have the more incidents there will be. Obviously there are other factors involved but comparing a country smaller then the state of Oregon, you start to lose credibility points for your argument. You make constant generalizations based a minority number of incidents taken from a much larger picture. No, I make observations based on nation wide statistics and use specific incidents to highlight my points. All you seem to do is make excuses for the current situation, refusing to accept that there is a problem. I mean, higher population density should lead to more crime but London has a significantly lower murder rate than comparable US cities. A lot of the problem in the US stems from a high number of failed cities like New Orleans, Detroit, Newark, Baltimore, Oakland, etc. Even Chicago's murder rate is significantly higher than the national average. Also comparing other countries to the US which has much different gun laws is just asinine. No it's not because it doesn't matter why the figure is higher, just that it is and the impact that has. In fact I'm deliberately avoiding talk of gun laws because there is a dedicated topic for that. I'm focusing specifically on the number of people killed by police and the conduct of police officers in these incidents. Policing in the US is out of control. It's shocking that the number of people killed by police in the US is over 11,000% higher than in the UK. I just don't see how you can think that's acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soniqstylz Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 She was a young mother suffering from post-partum http://gawker.com/miriam-carey-killed-by-police-thursday-after-a-car-cha-1440991297 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryster Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Unique? No. though no other western society has the same issues with police shootings. Lol, you clearly missed my point, but I can't be bothered to re-make it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neufuse Veteran Posted October 4, 2013 Author Veteran Share Posted October 4, 2013 She was a young mother suffering from post-partum http://gawker.com/miriam-carey-killed-by-police-thursday-after-a-car-cha-1440991297 and apparently delusional... thinking Obama was stalking her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freak180 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 president dead yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illage3 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Would be no different over here if someone tried to ram into downing street or other such places. If Cameron was in downing street and it was rammed and it seriously hurt him then everyone would be celebrating :), he's a poor leader and has run this country into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neufuse Veteran Posted October 11, 2013 Author Veteran Share Posted October 11, 2013 If Cameron was in downing street and it was rammed and it seriously hurt him then everyone would be celebrating :), he's a poor leader and has run this country into the ground. when it happens and that's the result then I'll believe you, until then, I bet you you'd get the same reaction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted October 11, 2013 Member Share Posted October 11, 2013 I still wonder if this wasn't some sort of assassination attempt that the government is covering up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts