US: Ceremonies For Dead Soldiers Faked


Recommended Posts

theyarecomingforyou

Summary: The ceremonies for dead US soldiers are being faked using planes that cannot even fly

 

 

Source: The David Pakman Show

 

It's sad?but not at all surprising?that the ceremonies for returning dead soldiers are being faked in what can only be considered propaganda. It should be noted that the US government previously had a ban on coverage of the return of dead soldiers and has had an active role in shaping people's perception of war.

Link to post
Share on other sites
mudslag

Do you have the actual NBC report instead of some guys video blog post? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
mudslag

^ thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites
mudslag

So basically it's a symbolic ceremony.

Link to post
Share on other sites
theyarecomingforyou

Do you have the actual NBC report instead of some guys video blog post? 

It's not "some guy", it's David Pakman and his show is broadcast on over 155 television and radio stations, in addition to YouTube.

Link to post
Share on other sites
McKay

The USA treats their armed forces and veterans a million times better than we do in the UK. They clear the roads when they have convoys of dead troops coming through, what happens here? They get stuck in traffic. We're advised to take our uniforms off and hide all military passes from our cars at pretty much every base because the locals usually enjoy nothing more than to beat up and mug military personnel, smash their cars up etc. 

 

Every time I go to the USA I get thanked, handshakes. Huge discounts Etc

 

I know this article shows Canada but they do the same in the USA. 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559303/Pictures-shame-reveal-shabby-way-Britain-treats-fallen-heroes.html

Link to post
Share on other sites
mudslag

It's not "some guy", it's David Pakman and his show is broadcast on over 155 television and radio stations, in addition to YouTube.

 

 

Never heard of him, still looks like some low production video blog even cheesier version of the young turks. They also toy with the idea is a propaganda display and at the same time leave the door open to being a symbolic ceremony to cover their bases. I understand you like to look down on the US when ever you get the chance but I see this being a symbolic ceremony instead of your propaganda view.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
theyarecomingforyou

Never heard of him, still looks like some low production video blog even cheesier version of the young turks. They also toy with the idea is a propaganda display and at the same time leave the door open to being a symbolic ceremony to cover their bases. I understand you like to look down on the US when ever you get the chance but I see this being a symbolic ceremony instead of your propaganda view.

Considering the history of censorship surrounding the return of dead soldiers in the US it is hard to consider it anything but propaganda. Typically ceremonies don't try to pass themselves off as something they're not, they are simply designed to respect the occasion.

 

The USA treats their armed forces and veterans a million times better than we do in the UK. They clear the roads when they have convoys of dead troops coming through, what happens here? They get stuck in traffic. We're advised to take our uniforms off and hide all military passes from our cars at pretty much every base because the locals usually enjoy nothing more than to beat up and mug military personnel, smash their cars up etc. 

It's vulgar patriotism used to portray the act of killing as a noble profession. No longer are western wars about defending the homeland but about securing economic interests abroad; no longer are people conscripted into service but rather volunteer to join. However, the reason we don't treat soldiers in the same way is because it is utterly tasteless and crass. And when you start with soldiers it's hard to know when to stop, which is why you now see similar displays in the US when it comes to police and firemen.

 

However, I utterly reject the implication that soldiers in the UK are treated with contempt and have to hide their profession in order to avoid getting beaten up. I regularly see soldiers in their uniforms and they are proud of it. The town of Royal Wootton Bassett has long held public gatherings to salute the repatriation of dead servicemen and I have seen nothing but respect for soldiers, though I am aware that some soldiers are occasionally subjected to verbal abuse from people critical of the war (especially Muslims because of the nature of modern conflicts). Whatever disagreements I have over the UK's foreign policy I put aside when it comes to respecting the brave men and women risking their lives for their country.

 

Your comment makes it sound like you don't understand British culture - being low key and reserved is our way of respected soldiers.

 

PS - You should never use the Daily Mail to support your argument if you want to be taken seriously.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
McKay

However, I utterly reject the implication that soldiers in the UK are treated with contempt and have to hide their profession in order to avoid getting beaten up. I regularly see soldiers in their uniforms and they are proud of it. The town of Royal Wootton Bassett has long held public gatherings to salute the repatriation of dead servicemen and I have seen nothing but respect for soldiers, though I am aware that some soldiers are occasionally subjected to verbal abuse from people critical of the war (especially Muslims because of the nature of modern conflicts). Whatever disagreements I have over the UK's foreign policy I put aside when it comes to respecting the brave men and women risking their lives for their country.

 

Your comment makes it sound like you don't understand British culture - being low key and reserved is our way of respected soldiers.

 

PS - You should never use the Daily Mail to support your argument if you want to be taken seriously.

 

Youre basing your entire opinion one a single town, where people began wearing their uniforms as a form of protest against the kind of people who killed that soldier. 

 

I've been to 7 different RAF and Army camps, on the other side of the fence there are always notices about hiding anything that identifies your car as belonging to service personnel, while many people still choose to wear uniform outside for convenience, it is generally discouraged. I never said people didn't respect troops here, but there's nothing low key about beating up service personnel in nightclubs (they stand out) just for being in the forces, I see it happen, a lot. At all of the camps I've been at. At my current base  someone spray painted "RAF ******s" on the side of some bodies house in huge letters. Things seemed to have died down after some local guys made the mistake of starting a fight with an infantry guy, and didn't realize he'd gone to the pub with 12 of his friends, who promptly held his arms back and began tenderising his torso. Cars get routinely keyed and jokers like to mail talcom powder to random addresses on the camp because they know it has to be treated like Anthrax once discovered. And this is a town village where the personnel and their families probably outnumber the locals. 

 

I've seen it even worse in Cosford, and Brize Norton. And before you immediately dismiss the article at hand, it still shows what happens over here.  

 

And why do you immediately jump to the conclusion that its propaganda? It could simply be for ceremony. You don't realize how much pointless crap the military does it purely for ceremony and tradition. The planes they actually fly the bodies out on might not be big enough to accommodate that ceremony. Some of the coffins might not have any bodies in because they couldn't recover enough of it. Does that make it propaganda too?

Link to post
Share on other sites
zhangm

Fake planes as offensive as their not using real bullets in a gun salute.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
theyarecomingforyou

I've been to 7 different RAF and Army camps, on the other side of the fence there are always notices about hiding anything that identifies your car as belonging to service personnel, while many people still choose to wear uniform outside for convenience, it is generally discouraged. I never said people didn't respect troops here, but there's nothing low key about beating up service personnel in nightclubs (they stand out) just for being in the forces, I see it happen, a lot.

And there are plenty of occasions where British servicemen start fights in pubs and bars, including a high profile one last month. I've witnessed far too many soldiers and navy personnel getting drunk and trying to start fights with people - it's not a one way thing. However, my point isn't to criticise the conduct of a small percentage of people who take things too far. Of course soldiers are going to be on the receiving end of criticism as they're the most tangible element of the country's foreign policy but they are also on the receiving end of a lot of praise and admiration. Advising soldiers to hide their apparel is little different to car owners being advised not to leave valuables visible in the car, it's designed to minimise risk - the problem is that there are too many thugs in the UK who see beating up a soldier a way of demonstrating their machismo.

 

As I said, I find the type of patriotism seen in the US to be rather vulgar and certainly not something that should be emulated over here. British support for the services is best seen through organisations like the Royal British Legion and Help For Heroes or the symbolic gatherings held in Royal Wootton Bassett and the nationally observed Armed Forces Day. Where I live Armed Forces day is marked with the Union Flag being displayed outside most houses and a procession through town and is very well received. It's more low key than the US but I consider it much more respectful.

Link to post
Share on other sites
123456789A

It's not "some guy", it's David Pakman and his show is broadcast on over 155 television and radio stations, in addition to YouTube.

 

According to that link, he's on "Free Speech TV" and "The Young Turks Network"... so yeah, it is "some guy"

Link to post
Share on other sites
FlintyV

The USA treats their armed forces and veterans a million times better than we do in the UK. They clear the roads when they have convoys of dead troops coming through, what happens here? They get stuck in traffic. We're advised to take our uniforms off and hide all military passes from our cars at pretty much every base because the locals usually enjoy nothing more than to beat up and mug military personnel, smash their cars up etc. 

 

Every time I go to the USA I get thanked, handshakes. Huge discounts Etc

 

I know this article shows Canada but they do the same in the USA. 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559303/Pictures-shame-reveal-shabby-way-Britain-treats-fallen-heroes.html

 

Using the DailyMail as source is laughable. Look at the bias in those carefully chosen images. The paper that hates Britain. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
CJ33

When the fundamentals behind the war are a fraud, why is it a shocker if the ceremony was "faked".. Besides, who cares if the planes couldnt fly. People are dead and being buried, and the only thing that some people care about is that a plane used cant really fly? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
theyarecomingforyou

And why do you immediately jump to the conclusion that its propaganda? It could simply be for ceremony. You don't realize how much pointless crap the military does it purely for ceremony and tradition.

It depends on the context. In this case I consider towing out a plane that cannot fly, loading it with the bodies of dead soldiers and then unloading them in front of the media to be propaganda, just as I did when coverage of bodies returning from wars was being suppressed by the US government. It's creating a false narrative. Of course it's right to pay respects to the dead, especially those risking their lives in the interests of their country (however misguided), but I don't think it should be about an ostentatious spectacle designed to create a mythos around the armed forces and satiate the inquisitiveness of the general public rather than respect the death of the individual.

 

Some of the coffins might not have any bodies in because they couldn't recover enough of it. Does that make it propaganda too?

I personally dislike the concept of fake coffins but my understanding is that such a decision would be made by the family, meaning that it wouldn't be considered propaganda.
 

Fake planes as offensive as their not using real bullets in a gun salute.

That's done for safety reasons and the pretence isn't to deceive.

 

According to that link, he's on "Free Speech TV" and "The Young Turks Network"... so yeah, it is "some guy"

If you want to dismiss a nationally syndicated television, radio and internet host viewed by millions of people as "some guy" then go ahead but it's disingenuous.

Link to post
Share on other sites
mudslag

Even the blogger in the video even says that even being symbolic is still acceptable. In the end if this gives closure to some, then how they do it is far less important then the fact that they are doing it. The OP is just posting more garbage anti American rhetoric for the sake of posting it. If this was some daily/weekly/monthly thing published and put out there for the country to see then you might, and I stress might have an argument for it being propaganda. But the fact that these are small ceremonies held for small groups of family and veterans falls more in line with being ceremonial then some propaganda machine.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
theyarecomingforyou

Even the blogger in the video even says that even being symbolic is still acceptable.

He isn't a blogger, he's a nationally syndicated television, radio and web host. And that may be his opinion but it isn't mine.

 

If this was some daily/weekly/monthly thing published and put out there for the country to see then you might, and I stress might have an argument for it being propaganda. But the fact that these are small ceremonies held for small groups of family and veterans falls more in line with being ceremonial then some propaganda machine.

Small ceremonies don't involve a 141-ton prop plane. And while not every ceremony will necessarily receive local or national media coverage the reality is that it does play a major role in shaping people's perception of war.

Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne

He isn't a blogger, he's a nationally syndicated television, radio and web host. And that may be his opinion but it isn't mine.

 

 

Small ceremonies don't involve a 141-ton prop plane. And while not every ceremony will necessarily receive local or national media coverage the reality is that it does play a major role in shaping people's perception of war.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, and we, ours.

 

Don't act like yours is the correct one, because that is purely in the eye of the beholder.  In your case, you take any and every chance to bash the US, so there is no little to no surprise where your opinion lies.  In fact, had they been real, working planes you wouldn't have posted at all, because it wouldn't have suited your agenda.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
mudslag

He isn't a blogger, he's a nationally syndicated television, radio and web host. And that may be his opinion but it isn't mine.

 

 

Small ceremonies don't involve a 141-ton prop plane. And while not every ceremony will necessarily receive local or national media coverage the reality is that it does play a major role in shaping people's perception of war.

 

 

Free Speech TV is meaningless to me, certainly isn't a channel that my cable provider offers. Looking it up it looks more like the old independent UHF stations of the old days, just with updated green screen graphics. So in the end, it's still an advanced glorified blog. 

 

As for the ceremonies, they involve and use what ever those organizers want to use. After all, being a symbolic ceremony would make more sense to make it seems as legit as possible, it's also prob cheaper too. As for perception of war, I would imagine a ceremony that focuses on the dead, sends a pretty damn powerful message to those veterans and the family of lost ones, that war is pretty ######ed up. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
mudslag

From the article http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Sections/NEWS/DOD_statement_on_arrival_ceremonies2.pdf

 

Part of the ceremony involves symbolically transferring the recovered remains from an aircraft to a 
vehicle for follow-on transportation to the lab. Many times, static aircraft are used for the ceremonies, as 
operational requirements dictate flight schedules and aircraft availability. This transfer symbolizes the 
arrival of our fallen service members. 
 
It is important to note that recovered remains ceremoniously transferred from the aircraft to the CIL 
vehicle have been in the lab undergoing forensic analysis to determine identity. When remains first arrive 
in Hawaii, JPAC cannot confirm if the remains are those of an American service member. JPAC adheres 
to a strict chain of custody to ensure the integrity of the identification.
Link to post
Share on other sites
theyarecomingforyou

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, and we, ours.

 

Don't act like yours is the correct one, because that is purely in the eye of the beholder.

That wasn't my point. I was simply explaining how I consider it to be propaganda and distasteful. Others are free to disagree and I have always been willing to respond to other people's perspectives, even if I disagree with them.

 

In fact, had they been real, working planes you wouldn't have posted at all, because it wouldn't have suited your agenda.

Had they been real working planes it wouldn't have been a news story.  :rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne

That wasn't my point. I was simply explaining how I consider it to be propaganda and distasteful. Others are free to disagree and I have always been willing to respond to other people's perspectives, even if I disagree with them.

 
 

Had they been real working planes it wouldn't have been a news story.  :rolleyes:

THIS isn't news either.

 

Just someone trying to make it out to be something sensational.

Link to post
Share on other sites
mudslag

And that may be his opinion but it isn't mine.

 

 

So basically you are using the video parts that satisfy your agenda and cherry pick the parts out that don't. Got it. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
McKay

He isn't a blogger, he's a nationally syndicated television, 

Small ceremonies don't involve a 141-ton prop plane. And while not every ceremony will necessarily receive local or national media coverage the reality is that it does play a major role in shaping people's perception of war.

 

Military ceremonies are measured in scale by the manpower involved. Moving a cargo plane takes 2 guys (Driver and guider) 10-15 minutes and costs nothing. If you've got a tonne of troops marching in a parade then it'll be deemed a big ceremony. Heck they wheel the Lancaster bomber outside in the open on nice days here purely so the plane spotters can gawk at it. They'll wheel fighter jets out to pose for office photos. 

 

After reading up, this entire ceremony is definitely purely for ceremon sake. Tradition, to honour the dead. The bodies having arrived previously and will be sat in forensics to be identified. They have since renamed the ceremony to address any confusion. 

 

The ceremony is there so the padre and high ranking officers can say their thanks all in one place. I feel its highly disrespectful to refer to it as propaganda. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By zikalify
      President Trump's Twitter password was 'maga2020!', says researcher
      by Paul Hill



      Victor Gevers, a Dutch hacker, was able to break into President Donald Trump’s Twitter account on October 16, 2020, by using the password 'maga2020!' according to reports. To prove his feat, he shared a screenshot with the Dutch outlet, Vrij Nederland (VN), showing the edit profile dialog box where he could have changed Trump’s display name, profile picture, and cover image.

      There were two astounding details about the breach; the first was that it only took Gevers seven attempts to guess the correct password, the other was that there was no two-factor authentication enabled to tighten up security on the account.



      Luckily for Trump, Victor Gevers is an ethical hacker so rather than deface or steal data from the account, which he could have done, he sent an email to Trump to inform him that he had managed to hack the account; this is known as responsible disclosure. If Gevers had malicious intent, he could have downloaded the president's data file which includes all information including deleted direct messages.

      At the time of writing, Vrij Nederland has reached out to Twitter to ask why the account of such a well-known figure is not protected with more security. It said that the social media firm had not responded to those queries yet.

      Source: Vrij Nederland (Dutch)

    • By zikalify
      Twitter begins U.S. voter registration campaign
      by Paul Hill

      Twitter has announced that it has formed a partnership with National Voter Registration Day to encourage more Americans to register for the upcoming presidential election. Users will be encouraged by various means on Twitter to register to vote or confirm their registration.

      Users that are located in the United States will see a new prompt on their home timeline encouraging them to register to vote or confirm their registration using a service called TurboVote run by Democracy Works, a non-partisan and non-profit organization. This will help to ensure nobody who wants to vote gets turned away at the polling station.

      Other measures being taken to encourage voting include:

      A push alert being displayed that directs users to a page full of voter registration information. It will be available in more than 40 languages depending on each person’s app settings. A promoted campaign run by @TwitterGov will take over today’s U.S. Promoted Trend Spotlight with registration resources from TurboVote. A new Twitter hashtag emoji is being introduced with #NationalVoterRegistrationDay and #VoteReady is being introduced to “empower civic conversation” across the country. Going forward, Twitter says it will publish additional voting-related notices as the election gets closer. By ensuring people are registered to vote, the firm is helping to make sure that everyone in the country entitled to a vote gets their say.

    • By Usman Khan Lodhi
      Lyft is offering discounted rides to polling locations on election day
      by Usman Khan Lodhi





      Lyft is taking steps to promote participation in the 2020 U.S. presidential election. Recognizing that a considerable amount of citizens do not have access to affordable transportation, the ride-hailing service is expanding its "Ride to Vote" initiative yet again for November's generation election. The firm previously offered free and discounted rides to the polls during the 2018 midterms and this year's primaries. The announcement read:

      The promo code, which can be used only once per user, will be valid on November 3 from 5 am to 11 pm, and users will be discounted half the ride fare up to a maximum of $10. Through the promo code, users will be able to ride to any polling station across the US, including dropbox locations if they're in an exclusively vote-by-mail state.

      Lyft's bikes and scooters are also eligible for the offer in select cities. Additionally, the firm is partnering with numerous nonprofit organizations to ensure the provision of free and cheap transportation in regions where affordable and reliable transportation is an issue. Its partners include More Than A Vote, which is determined to provide access to arena polling locations in Atlanta, Charlotte, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Orlando, Black Women's Roundtable, the National Federation of the Blind, and Student Veterans of America.

    • By zikalify
      Plex introduces free Spanish-language live TV channels
      by Paul Hill



      Plex has announced that it is rolling out several Spanish-language channels on its free live TV service. Initially, six channels will be available with 25 more rolling out in the coming weeks. With over 80 channels launching in July and more than 30 Spanish-language channels rolling out in the coming weeks, the platform will have more than 100 channels in all.

      Unfortunately, the new channels will only be available to users in the United States, however, if you are in that region you’ll receive a range of new content covering telenovelas, game shows, sitcoms, movies, award-winning series and more. While these channels will primarily serve the 58 million Spanish speakers in the U.S., those looking to learn the language will also be able to use them as a resource.

      Some of the new shows and movies being made available include:

      Casados con Hijos (Married with Children) La Niñera (The Nanny) Mi Bella Genio (I Dream of Jeannie) Doña Barbara Señorita Pólvora Latido Music with 24/7 music videos, artist interviews, live performances, and more Who Wants to Be a Millionaire Wipeout Escape Perfecto Ma ma Chico and Rita and more. To watch the new channels, you just need to download the free Plex app available for Roku, Apple TV, Android, smart TVs, iPhones, iPads, Android, or visit the Plex website. Just head to the Live TV section and select a channel to start watching.

    • By Garg Ankit
      Portland bans use of facial recognition tech by government and private entities
      by Garg Ankit

      Image via Liberty Portland in Oregon has become the first city to ban the use of facial recognition technology by both goverment agencies as well as private players in "places of public accommodation." Both the ordinances were passed unanimously by the legislators.

      During the hearing of this landmark ban, Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler said:

      The crackdown on the use of facial recognition technology in the States is not new, but so far it was limited to agencies answerable to the public. Boston, Oakland, and San Francisco are already on this list. But Portland took it a step further by prohibiting individuals and private organizations too.

      Banks, convenience stores, doctor's offices, entertainment venues, hotels and Airbnb rentals, public transit stations, Uber and Lyft, and restaurants are places where the usage of the technology is now prohibited by the law. This also includes any place that provides publicly accessible facilities, goods or services, lodging, and transportation. Churches, private residences, and private clubs and institutions are exempted. Individuals, either working for the government or in the private sector, are allowed to use the technology to unlock their smart devices, and tag people or use face filters on social media websites. A penalty of up to $1,000 a day can be claimed if anyone is found violating the law.

      Earlier this year, tech giants like Amazon, IBM, and Microsoft banned the police force from using their facial recognition technology citing bias and lack of strict regulations. Microsoft appears to be in favor of letting their tech be used, but want the authorities to regulate it strictly. In contrast, London's Met Police started using the tech in January this year, even though an earlier report claimed that innocent people are flagged 81% of the time.

      The tech has definitely proven useful when Chinese authorities successfully nabbed a man in a crowd of 60,000. But the potential for misuse cannot be underestimated. Portland has preferred to take the side of citizens' privacy.

      Source: Business Insider