Xbox One 50Hz TV signal judder explained


Recommended Posts

I have complained about my TV signal pausing for a split second or juddering especially when panning across the screen in a previous thread, well it looks like the issue is to do with the 50Hz UK/Europe TV system as the Xbox outputs in 60Hz, all we can do is hope that MS pull their finger out and fix this nasty issue for us Europeans asap!

 

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/xbox-50hz-201311233468.htm

 

 

 

Microsoft?s Xbox One next-generation console launched to great fanfare yesterday, with 1 million units sold within 24 hours. One of the most heavily advertised features of the Xbox One is its ability to integrate live TV feed from your set-top box, be it terrestrial (Freeview HD), satellite (Freesat or Sky) or cable (Virgin Media) broadcast. However, since receiving their consoles yesterday, a number of British owners have complained about the TV integration feature being broken, due to the introduction of judder with 50Hz content.

Once again more proof that their TV TV TV approach was aimed at America.

With something like that you kind of have to start somewhere. Its not easy to design a system like that so it can work everywhere in the world. I am sure they will have this issue patched in a week or so.

With something like that you kind of have to start somewhere. Its not easy to design a system like that so it can work everywhere in the world. I am sure they will have this issue patched in a week or so.

 

Thing is, they can't, not properly. They'll either have to make the Xbox output at 50Hz or come up with some shady interpolation system that adjusts the 50Hz to 60Hz. I can't really see them do either since it would affect the whole Xbox UI. And then what if you connect something that outputs at 24Hz to the Xbox? Have it run at 24Hz or 48Hz too? Let the Xbox switch all the time based on what it's getting through the input?

 

It's just not a good idea in general, the whole passthrough thing, unless you actually pass through the original signal. My XBMC device dynamically switches output refresh rate based on the content that's playing. Sometimes it's 24Hz, sometimes it's 25Hz, 50Hz or 60Hz. By having it go through the Xbox everything would look horrible since it'd always introduce judder in everything but the 60Hz output.

 

If you ask me the whole Xbox TV integration stuff is a half-assed solution for a problem that didn't exist.

  • Like 3

So...

 

It's something typical for Microsoft. They offer all services in the US, some in the UK too and if you go anywhere else (like mainland Europe, Belgium, where I live) you just lose out. On everything. And they delay stuff, other stuff isn't available, badly localized, ... And that's every consumer-oriented Microsoft division that does this.

WOW, what a surprise... Europe is using 50Hz system.... Who knew ? It's not like they had lots of money to test things out... 

 

I love MS, I love Xbox, but I agree that this TV stuff is pointless, unless you're an American. Even in the USA I'm not sure who will use it, after few days of playing with it.

Old people won't get an Xbox, young people pirate or stream. Who's in the market for Cable TV + Xbox ?

With something like that you kind of have to start somewhere

Of course you do, but you find out that Europe uses a different frequency in the design stage, NOT after launch.

 

Once again more proof that their TV TV TV approach was aimed at America.

So...
And this is why the rest of the world tends to feel America has an arrogant, uninformed population.

I managed to stop the panning judder mostly by turning OFF 'FILM AUTO 1' in my Sony TVs settings, but this doesn't stop my main problem where the whole TV picture can randomly freeze for a split second or in worst case i was getting a message on the screen saying the Xbox has lost the TV signal.

It's something typical for Microsoft. They offer all services in the US, some in the UK too and if you go anywhere else (like mainland Europe, Belgium, where I live) you just lose out. On everything. And they delay stuff, other stuff isn't available, badly localized, ... And that's every consumer-oriented Microsoft division that does this.

 

Told ya.

 

Microsoft is known to change things all the time. That's why I'm stopping buying anything from Microsoft. They change too much that products that i buy become useless as time goes. They create and then kill off products or services. Should have kept it as a beta rather than release it fully. GFWL is an example of this. They are forcing devs to waste time reprogramming their games so that it works on Steam while some other devs will not change causing some games to become digital coasters on my steam account.

 

What's happening with Live?

Also look at the Xbox 360 original dashboard. Now they changed it to something different than what was originally shipped thus giving people different experiences about the 360.

 

they just need to slow down and think about what they are releasing.

It's something typical for Microsoft. They offer all services in the US, some in the UK too and if you go anywhere else (like mainland Europe, Belgium, where I live) you just lose out. On everything. And they delay stuff, other stuff isn't available, badly localized, ... And that's every consumer-oriented Microsoft division that does this.

Sucks for you.

Well I think the best thing that can be done is to complain to MS so that they know people want this fixed. I don't think MS wants to ignore these issues if they can do something about it.

I really don't think this is impossible to fix either. You could have a software check that adjusts the Hz based on the 'app' you launch. So when you launch TV, it switches the Hz. When you switch to the One Guide or another X1 app/dash, you switch it back to 60hz.

You can do this on the pc now, even in windows 8, which is what the X1's main OS is based on.

As far as MS not catering to regions outside the US, I think MS made it very clear that while all of their early announcements were US focused, they had plans to get proper support spread to all regions the X1 is released in. They also made the point months ago that unfortunately that would not be in place at launch. Heck, they even reduced the number of regions they would launch in thanks to localization tied to voice commands not being ready. They haven't finalized deals across Europe to add support for things like OTA or the various cable services that they have said they will support.

It sucks for people in Europe that want to take advantage of those tv features and I hope MS keeps us updated on a timetable for rolling out proper European support. I think if they do that and respond properly to issues like this, you guys will feel better about it. If they don't, then there is more reason to complain.

The 'TV,TV,TV' mantra that people like to mock isn't just about hooking up cable boxes, its about making it easier to get to tv-like content (such as the OneGuide managing all your streaming content, not just a cable box) and augmenting the traditional tv experience that many people still access.

What's happening with Live?

Also look at the Xbox 360 original dashboard. Now they changed it to something different than what was originally shipped thus giving people different experiences about the 360.

 

they just need to slow down and think about what they are releasing.

I'm not sure what is wrong with changing the UI over time to adapt to new features or services. That's like saying Software makers should refrain from improving over time in both ui and functions.

Of course, if you felt the launch UI for the 360 was perfect, then I understand why you would say stick with that.

  • Like 2

Once again more proof that their TV TV TV approach was aimed at America.

I'm really wondering where you guys have been on this. MS themselves tried to prepare people outside the US for the fact that European support for traditional tv services would not make it at launch and that they would roll that out as soon as they could over the coming year.

The issues brought up here is something they need to address and I hope people are directly reporting this to MS and not just sounding off here. If you don't complain to MS or Sony when an issue comes up, its much hard to get them to do something about it.

  • Like 3

The average people who are not in stealing movies and stuffs ....

 

WOW, what a surprise... Europe is using 50Hz system.... Who knew ? It's not like they had lots of money to test things out... 

 

I love MS, I love Xbox, but I agree that this TV stuff is pointless, unless you're an American. Even in the USA I'm not sure who will use it, after few days of playing with it.

Old people won't get an Xbox, young people pirate or stream. Who's in the market for Cable TV + Xbox ?

I managed to stop the panning judder mostly by turning OFF 'FILM AUTO 1' in my Sony TVs settings, but this doesn't stop my main problem where the whole TV picture can randomly freeze for a split second or in worst case i was getting a message on the screen saying the Xbox has lost the TV signal.

bad hdmi cable

back in the day between NTSC and PAL you could make an arguement for 50hz. when we went to digital signals and HDTV it should have been standardized.

 

Yes, you americans should have gone to 50, then it would have been.

 

But reality is that it isn't that simple. all he media houses has billions worth of editing equipment designed to work at 50. and all the old material it's still 50. 

bad hdmi cable

No it's not the cable already tested, it is the 50Hz issue unfortunately. TV is mostly watchable but it can pause randomly at anytime but not too frequently to make it unwatchable.

 

Edit. 

 

I just had a 7 second pause after posting this 1 of the longest pauses so far.

this was from may

 

Xbox One's Live TV service will only be available in the United States at launch, with Microsoft 'anticipating global scale over time,' according to an official press release

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/05/21/xbox-one-live-tv-only-available-in-the-us-at-launch

  • Like 3
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Yup, that's a doozy right there 😄
    • It's a bundle of tools created by a variety of people, so things can go wrong sometimes. It's a great addition to Windows, and I use a lot of the tools on a daily basis. Also, it's still a 0.**** release so quick updates are to be expected 😉
    • Oh, I did. And it's even worse than I was hoping! Besides a lot of techno-babble jargon (yes I understand 100% of it but it's still all just techno-babble) there's 2 key points that make me super-weary about even considering testing this out. -- By default, after installation, a relay is automatically set up, so you do not need to care about that. * Non-chatmail apps use email servers as a long-term message archive while chatmail clients use email servers for ephemeral instant message relay. * Supporting the full variety of classic email setups would require considerable development and maintenance efforts, and complicate making chatmail-based messaging more resilient, reliable and fast. -- Basically, the end-user device is the 'server' (relay) so there is NO ARCHIVING whatsoever because every message is necessarily ephemeral. Great for techno-paranoia (and for illicit activities preferring no tracks to cover) but terrible for everybody else. It's also ironically contradictory to engineering principles of redundancies besides the transport layers due to the explicit absence of any persistent storage. Instead of 'classic email address' retaining multi-GB messaging archives on its server, now every device must retain 100% of those storage demands. (Email messages were originally meant to be short correspondences, not the multi-MB attachments boondoggle that now exists with unlimited spam engines flooding every potential recipient.) Any device swap or reset (or loss) makes the entire message history go bye-bye forever... lest there's an off-device auto-archival "relay" mechanism that's really a separate server that holds onto all transported messages (an email server) that utilizes 'chatmail email address' identities (like an email server) and its own persistent storage archive (like an email server). But... this solution is hoping to exist alongside real-world email address identities (based on the email server relay pathway) but simply render messages in chat thread format in an ephemeral manner (with contents being encrypted, and messages auto-expiring) ... In the end, it's a chat app/experience for the Web3/P2P-at-all-costs zealots. (I have accts on all sorts of federated web3 services so I understand the technical and non-technical alike.) For any practical users, however, it's just another service to download/install, register, cross-share id cards/qr codes, but know that there's no history/archive whatsoever (by design) so no account/message recovery whatsoever... update the device, install a bummed update patch, or dare upgrade your device... all history, poof, gone. Ya gotta start everything over again like they're a brand new person.
    • You've tried DuckDuckGo and Brave Search, now get serious with SearXNG by Paul Hill Over the last decade, it has become quite trendy to dump Google Search in favor of privacy-preserving alternatives such as DuckDuckGo, Startpage, and Brave Search. These search engines have done a very good job at highlighting dodgy practices by Google, such as adjusting search results based on what it thinks you’ll like (filter bubble) and stalking you around the web to advertise to you. While these search engines are good starting points when compared to non-private services like Google, there are still quite a few issues with them. For example, both DuckDuckGo and Brave Search require running non-free JavaScript in your web browser, which is comparable to running proprietary software on your computer, meaning you can be sure about what it’s actually doing in the background. Another issue is that these search engines are hosted on the respective companies’ servers, and you are using a service that you don’t control. Finally, DuckDuckGo, while offering privacy features, relies heavily on Microsoft’s infrastructure for its results and, in the past, has permitted Microsoft tracking scripts. If you are looking for a more private search solution than DuckDuckGo, Brave Search, and Startpage, then I recommend taking a look at SearXNG. It is a privacy-respecting metasearch engine that can be used via different public instances, which is useful for mobile users, or you can install it on your computer or server and run it locally with maximum control. Unlike Google, Bing, or Brave Search, which crawl the web and have their own search indexes, SearXNG is a metasearch engine, meaning it taps other search engines, stripping your identifying data, such as IP address, user agent, and cookies, in the process. Your search query is sent to the other search engines you enable before aggregating the results. SearXNG has deployment flexibility. If you are a casual user or a mobile user and don’t want to run SearXNG locally, you can use a public instance that is hosted by someone else. The main problem with this is that you are putting trust in the maintainer of the instance regarding stuff like logs that they may keep; good hosts should have a privacy policy explaining their policies. If you are trying to use SearXNG, you can also install the software on your device and then head to 127.0.0.1:8080 in your browser and search from there. While you don’t have to worry about a third-party admin like the public instances, search engines could ultimately block your IP address if they frown on you pulling in their search results locally. If you want to run it locally, it’s a good idea to use proxies or VPNs to hide your actual IP. You don’t have to worry about this with a public instance, as search engines never see your IP address. The main privacy benefit of using SearXNG is that it isolates your identity from the underlying engines that it’s capable of searching, such as Google and Bing. These search engines will only see requests coming from a generic server, so they can’t profile you and create a bubble filter that influences what results you see. This also ensures that your search engine doesn’t turn into an echo chamber that prevents you from reading alternative points of view. As a free software project, you are allowed to inspect SearXNG to make sure there are no negative features bundled inside. This sets it apart from the privacy search engines mentioned earlier because you can’t check their source code. As a meta search engine, you are not restricted to getting results from one source. Due to the fact that it scrapes content from other websites, your SearXNG instance will periodically get blocked from different providers, so it’s good to select a range of sources as a backup. While enabling all of the services will give you great results, this can make searching slower. I am personally happy with slower searches for the best results, but you can always check which providers are slowing down your search from the search results page and disable them to speed things up. If you want decent results quickly, enable the main search providers such as Google, Brave, DuckDuckGo, Qwant, Bing, and Yahoo. This way, you get wide coverage without the latency. On the Engines tab in Preferences, do note that there are different tabs, such as General, Images, and Videos, with their own providers that can be toggled and are not covered by "Enable all" while on the General tab, so be sure to dig into each. Just a note, if you want to enable everything, press "Enable all" in one tab, then hit save at the bottom of the page, then do the next tab, and so on. If you press "Enable all", then do that in each tab, and then save, nothing will stick. When I had just some of the search engines enabled, I searched “define nefarious” and results came back with the definition of “define” - obviously that was a sucky result. However, when I had everything enabled, it found dictionary pages for the word “nefarious” and even had an inline definition on the sidebar, which is quite nice too - that was delivered by WolframAlpha for anyone wondering! Probably the worst thing about this meta search engine is that the engines you select are saved with a cookie, so you must enable them on every new device you use SearXNG on, including if you decide to go into incognito mode with your web browser. Honestly, I would say this is the most annoying aspect, and perhaps if your browser lets you choose a separate private browsing search engine, then it would be best to use DuckDuckGo for this portion of your browsing. Another weakness of SearXNG is the random blocking of it by search providers. When you are on the results page, expand the “Response time” box, and it will show things like “Suspended: too many requests” or “access denied”. This is why it is good to enable several providers so that there is always a fallback to get results from. I won’t pretend SearXNG will be for everyone, however, if you enable all of the providers and put up with the slower response time, the results can be really amazing. Even if you don’t want to use it as your daily driver, keeping a bookmark handy that links to it is a good idea if you ever feel like doing a deep dive into a niche topic where other search engines are just failing to bring up any good result, due to the amount of sources it looks on. If you’re interested in radical user control over the software you use, installing SearXNG locally can also be a good idea, but be prepared to be temporarily blocked from sites if you trigger bot sensors without a VPN. Personally, I’ve opted to use a public instance, rather than install it myself. If you want to use it via a public instance, head over to searx.space to find a provider. Let us know in the comments if you have used SearXNG or its predecessor, Searx. What do you think about the quality of the results?
    • Dear Neowin, If it is not too much trouble, can you start using the new-ish designations for Insider Preview? "Experimental" is different than "former Dev" as it can apply to different models, eg 26H1 or 26H2 etc, right? No need to seed confusion IMHO. And, please "finally" update your graphics. OK?
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Woland13 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Woland13 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Year In
      bernmeister earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      Scoobystu earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      503
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      226
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      158
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      75
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      71
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!